Bulgarian Training for Power Lifting 6Month Progress

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

[quote]chris_ottawa wrote:
What you are saying is true, but at the same time there was more to his methods than just max out and do down sets. There’s a lot of his information out there, but no complete training system. There were different ways of organizing training that look fairly straightforward, but nobody really understands the logic behind everything. It’s like Westside, people complain that it doesn’t work for raw lifters but they never actually trained with Louie, they just copied some things they heard about and didn’t understand why they did what they did. There are powerlifters in Bulgaria right now maxing out daily, multiple sessions, etc., but I don’t see any of their programs anywhere. Dietmar Wolf’s current programs are state secrets of Norway, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same with the Bulgarians.[/quote]

I think you’re overcomplicating it. The principles of Westside are solid and the logic isn’t hard to follow (application to raw lifting is another story). The principles of Abadjiev are simple and straightforward as well. It’s the application of principles to a specific individual that are complicated vary lifter to lifter. It’s helpful to have someone with years/decades of experience and an objective eye to apply the principles - what kind of jumps, when to stop, how much back down volume to use, etc. Otherwise it probably takes years or decades of experience training this way to apply it most optimally to yourself. I highly doubt there are any secrets, just experience and hard work.

22

" It’s the application of principles to a specific individual that are complicated vary lifter to lifter. It’s helpful to have someone with years/decades of experience and an objective eye to apply the principles - what kind of jumps, when to stop, how much back down volume to use, etc. Otherwise it probably takes years or decades of experience training this way to apply it most optimally to yourself."

That’s the main thing that we’re missing. If he had written a book outlining how to regulate all aspects of training it would be much easier to use this style of training effectively. Maybe I’m wrong in assuming those details are being kept secret, but considering that the system is completely autoregulated it would make a huge difference.

I think one of the main questions would be when to push volume work and when not to. You can just go by how you feel, but right there you are missing the logical aspect and replacing it with your own emotions. They didn’t call Abadjiev “The Butcher” for nothing, I heard stories of him making Suleymanoglu train all through the night after the other lifters had gone to sleep. I don’t know what he was thinking, but he obviously got results.

The other question is how to optimally apply this system to powerlifting. Considering that Bulgarian powerlifters actually train this way it would be helpful to know what exactly they are doing. Eric Talmant claimed to be using the “Bulgarian Method” but he was only training 3 days a week and doing no back off sets. He also said that Broz and Pezzuti had “missed the boat” on applying the Bulgarian system to powerlifting, but considering the fact that Ivaylo Hristov and other elite lifters train twice a day it sounds more like Talmant who was confused. Either way he got good results, but it doesn’t sound like anyone outside of Bulgaria knows the real Bulgarian method for powerlifting.

It might sound like I’m overthinking this, but I have done a bit of research lately and things are not as simple as they may appear to be.

23

Excellent results, from an excellent training method!

For what it’s worth, I’m a 40yo, raw, IPF PLer (76.5kg bw, 200/135/210), training Bulgarian style: it’s excellent for squat, very good for bench (but I need A LOT of back off sets, much more than squat), but it doesn’t seem to work as well for DL.

Maybe people who can successfully squat everyday to a max are built to squat (I know I am), so their DL will always lag behind, or maybe DL needs to be trained differently.

I recently decided to follow Broz advice: 6-10x3 with 70-80%, adjusting the load by bar speed.

I know some “bulgarian” athletes only pull once or twice a week, some every other day…still cannot figure out the best way do deal with my least favorite lift !

Any ideas?

24

I have only been using this method for a few weeks, but it seems that it’s easier to get more volume on the down sets for bench. I haven’t figured out the best way to deal with deadlifts yet, but from looking at Tom Martin’s training log on the Sugden Barbell site and an interview he did it appears he does one day deficit 1rm, one day SLDL for a heavy set of 5, and another day rack pulls 1rm. He changes the height for rack pulls every couple weeks and goes for a 1rm from the floor around every 6 weeks. I would do more work from the floor than that, but it’s an idea of how to run things.

Do you use variations of the lifts as well? I have been doing SSB and front squats (I’m cutting front squats because it’s more of a test of technique than strength for me, I don’t see the use), some paused down sets, and bench with bands, 1 board press or floor press, and close grip. I know Abadjiev’s methods revolve around doing very little aside from the main lifts but it seems that I’m benefitting from variatons. I have been doing 4 days a week of comp. squat and 3 days comp. bench, so far bench seems to be doing better than squat.

In the bodybuilding Q&A thread, John Broz said that theoretically it would be possible to adapt to max deadlifts every day, I imagine it would work better if you pull with a straight back. If you look like Konstantinovs you will have issues for sure. That’s part of the reason why I’m interested to find out how they are actually training in Bulgaria, I’m sure they have figured out an appropriate way to train the deadlift.

25

[quote]fabiop wrote:
I know some “bulgarian” athletes only pull once or twice a week, some every other day…still cannot figure out the best way do deal with my least favorite lift !

Any ideas? [/quote]
While not Bulgarian, you could look into Pavel’s Power to the People routine for your deadlifts. 5 sessions a week, two work sets a day. 5 reps at 100% of whatever you’re training that day, rest, then 5 reps at 90%.

He offers some options for cycling the weight session to session:

  • Linear Cycles - start at 70% of your 5RM, add 3-5% per session, so 15-25 for deadlifts
  • Step Cycle - same idea, just stick with the same weight for 2 or more sessions before increasing
  • Wave Cycle - go up for a few days, back off a bit, go up for a few days; e.g., add weight for 4 sessions, reset to what you did 3 sessions ago, increase for the next 4, etc.

Whichever approach, the goal is to have 8 and 16 training sessions before you reset. You can reset whenever your top set drops below 5 reps, or taper down to doubles or singles before resetting; kinda just depends on what works for you.

Basically it’s just a framework with some guidelines to adjust as you see fit.

Getting around 90% 5RM it starts to wear on me doing it daily, but it’s been working well for me so far (since Novemberish). It’s the only “deadlift every day” routine I’ve found that people have actually had success with. E.g., Nick Horton’s “deadlift nemesis” experiment seemed to not have worked so well.

26

[quote]LoRez wrote:

While not Bulgarian, you could look into Pavel’s Power to the People routine for your deadlifts. 5 sessions a week, two work sets a day. 5 reps at 100% of whatever you’re training that day, rest, then 5 reps at 90%.

It’s the only “deadlift every day” routine I’ve found that people have actually had success with. E.g., Nick Horton’s “deadlift nemesis” experiment seemed to not have worked so well.[/quote]
Yes, I read about this experiment, definitely not as brilliant as Squat Nemesis (which was my first introduction to daily max).

I have Pavel’s book, but I had completely forgot about this cycle. I’ll try some of those schemes, thank you.

Tom Martin…I’ve seen him in a DL-only meet, here in Italy, he’s an absolute monster !!! I understand why SLDL work for him, he’s a “long limbs, short torso” guy, definitely not my built!

27

[quote]chris_ottawa wrote:
I have only been using this method for a few weeks, but it seems that it’s easier to get more volume on the down sets for bench. I haven’t figured out the best way to deal with deadlifts yet, but from looking at Tom Martin’s training log on the Sugden Barbell site and an interview he did it appears he does one day deficit 1rm, one day SLDL for a heavy set of 5, and another day rack pulls 1rm. He changes the height for rack pulls every couple weeks and goes for a 1rm from the floor around every 6 weeks. I would do more work from the floor than that, but it’s an idea of how to run things.

Do you use variations of the lifts as well? I have been doing SSB and front squats (I’m cutting front squats because it’s more of a test of technique than strength for me, I don’t see the use), some paused down sets, and bench with bands, 1 board press or floor press, and close grip. I know Abadjiev’s methods revolve around doing very little aside from the main lifts but it seems that I’m benefitting from variatons. I have been doing 4 days a week of comp. squat and 3 days comp. bench, so far bench seems to be doing better than squat.

In the bodybuilding Q&A thread, John Broz said that theoretically it would be possible to adapt to max deadlifts every day, I imagine it would work better if you pull with a straight back. If you look like Konstantinovs you will have issues for sure. That’s part of the reason why I’m interested to find out how they are actually training in Bulgaria, I’m sure they have figured out an appropriate way to train the deadlift.[/quote]

I’m pretty sure they are training 1000 different ways in Bulgaria just like in the US. I don’t think there’s a national powerlifting team that’s all training the same way like the weightlifters did. Even the weightlifters don’t train under Abadjiev’s methods anymore. As far as I know, Abadjiev’s methods have never truly been adopted to powerlifting on a large scale.

The principles still apply to anyone and any sport.

Variations and accessory work is still used to correct weaknesses and imbalances but the more advanced you get, the fewer variations you should need.

The goal is to train for you sport by doing your sport, as heavy, as hard and as often as possible. What most people think of (only comp lifts to max every day) is just the ideal. That’s what we should all be striving to train towards. That doesn’t mean most people should start there because most people still have not perfected technique, still have weaknesses/imbalances and still have not trained and maximized their recovery abilities.

It’s the objective coach that can monitor all these things and prescribe recommendations. Again, its just years of experience with this method and not secret information (though of course supplements aren’t as openly discussed).

28

for the gentleman who asked,current maxes at 210 bodyweight,(i compete at 198 and 220)
555,385,530.

29

[quote]serial lifter wrote:
for the gentleman who asked,current maxes at 210 bodyweight,(i compete at 198 and 220)
555,385,530. [/quote]

couple questions.

do you compete raw or geared? I only ask because of your avatar picture. Good stuff either way, I’m just curious.

Also curious if you’re an ‘assisted’ lifter. You don’t have to answer this if you’re not comfortable answering, but obviously this would impact your ability to recover from such high-frequency, high intensity training.

Keep it up man, interesting thread!

30

fair questions, I compete raw and VERY occasionally train in gear, I would like to move to geared lifting because I’m getting old but I just don’t have the training partners I would need for that. So all the numbers I posted are current raw maxes. As for the am I an “assisted” lifter question, I have dabbled a bit and probably will again,but I was natty and had been for a while before entering this training cycle , and this is because I can’t afford to run gear all the time ,other wise I would blast and cruise for the rest of my training life :slight_smile: , Recovery has not really been an issue with Bulgarian training because after the first few weeks your body becomes accustomed to training in a fatigued state,and the PRs start coming even when you feel like shit, so if you got heart and stay the course it works( at least for me it has ) and if you don’t ,it won’t.

31

[quote]serial lifter wrote:
fair questions, I compete raw and VERY occasionally train in gear, I would like to move to geared lifting because I’m getting old but I just don’t have the training partners I would need for that. So all the numbers I posted are current raw maxes. As for the am I an “assisted” lifter question, I have dabbled a bit and probably will again,but I was natty and had been for a while before entering this training cycle , and this is because I can’t afford to run gear all the time ,other wise I would blast and cruise for the rest of my training life :slight_smile: , Recovery has not really been an issue with Bulgarian training because after the first few weeks your body becomes accustomed to training in a fatigued state,and the PRs start coming even when you feel like shit, so if you got heart and stay the course it works( at least for me it has ) and if you don’t ,it won’t.[/quote]

thanks man, very thorough. I asked the gear question because up to this point, I’ve been training each lift once per week. I’m considering increasing frequency very soon, and will be assisted… it will be my second cycle. It seems like this will benefit me.

32

you may benefit from a book called SQUAT EVERYDAY, I forget the author, but he gives a good outline for this type of training, as well as its history and theory. Good luck

33

Squat Everyday is a great book. I love how the science is explained in it and the common sense thinking.

34

[quote]serial lifter wrote:
you may benefit from a book called SQUAT EVERYDAY, I forget the author, but he gives a good outline for this type of training, as well as its history and theory. Good luck [/quote]
Matt Perryman, IIRC, very good reading.

BTW, Bulgarian-style works for lifetime natty as well.

35

[quote]fabiop wrote:

[quote]serial lifter wrote:
you may benefit from a book called SQUAT EVERYDAY, I forget the author, but he gives a good outline for this type of training, as well as its history and theory. Good luck [/quote]
Matt Perryman, IIRC, very good reading.

BTW, Bulgarian-style works for lifetime natty as well.
[/quote]

It’s not possible!! In order to squat more than once every other week, you need to be on every gosh darn drug known to man! OVERTRAINING! Haha

Sorry, “Bulgarian” and “natty” used in the same sentence, I just had too, lol.

36

Serial Lifter, what did you do leading up to the meet. I have one this Saturday and I havent really changed anything, I still squat to a max everyday, only I added knee wraps last week to my sessions due to the fact that they hurt me and I need to get used to the pain. And I did pull with a freind of mine two weeks ago…where I pulled my best meet PR…for a triple with no belt.

I figured squatting everyday is what got me to my numbers, why would I change anything. I know a few days isnt enough time to change anything, I was more or less just curious

37

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
Serial Lifter, what did you do leading up to the meet. I have one this Saturday and I havent really changed anything, I still squat to a max everyday, only I added knee wraps last week to my sessions due to the fact that they hurt me and I need to get used to the pain. And I did pull with a freind of mine two weeks ago…where I pulled my best meet PR…for a triple with no belt.

I figured squatting everyday is what got me to my numbers, why would I change anything. I know a few days isnt enough time to change anything, I was more or less just curious[/quote]

I only know from reading about it but this seems like the answer you want. Allow for recovery but not break the lifting everyday pattern.

4 days out: w/u to 60-70%
3 days out: same
2 days: openers
1 day out 70%

38

My current program is very opposite of this one. For anyone that has transitioned to this type of training what do you recommend?

  • Go straight to 6 days a week
  • Start 3-4 days a week
  • Start 6 days but lower weight % while you adjust to frequency
39

I started with just 4 days a week. I received an “Off Season” lifting program from a freind (im being careful because the person that designed it seems to like to sue people) and it had you maxing out on squats four times a week then doing some back off sets. I started making some good progress off of that so after about a month and a half, I decided to do it everyday. When I switched to doing it at least 6 days a week, I paid special attention to the speed out of the hole and how I was feeling that day. Some days, 70% would damn near staple me, somedays 90% feels like a warm up.

Ill admit it here and now that I am a program jumper. I get bored easily and I like to train 6-7 days a week and there are few programs out there that allow that. This one allows for it and ill tell you another thing, its just damn fun!

I hope this helps a bit. Good luck my freind

40

Chicksan, sorry to answer to late, hope your meet went well,as for your question,I have tried the cut to 60 or 70 % thing the week leading up to the meet and hitting openers 3 days out. This did NOT work for me, what has worked best for me so far is to train up to a max every day as usual and do back offs as usual and stop training completly 3 days out from the meet(my last pull 10 to 14 days from meet). I am interested to know what method you used going in to your meet and how it worked out.