Built for Bad: More Alternation Questions

Bigger Stronger Leaner Christian Thibaudeau Coaching
1

Hey CT,

First off, I wanted to thank you for the all the great info youve put out. Im a raw lifter and have set up like a traditional power lifter for bench for years now, and as soon as I made the few changes you suggested (traps shrugged, open grip, legs more forward, think push press), combined with the neural charging/ramping idea, my max went from 285-315 in a matter of a few sessions and I feel better and stronger walking out than I do walking in.

I really like the concept behind your Built for Bad strength circuit. My questions involve adapting it to a more power-bodybuilding template for strength and size without focusing on the leaning-out aspect. So:

-Id warm-up doing DeFrancos Agile 8 and Simple 6 before every session because I have APT, immobile shoulders and decently bad kyphosis, followed by a neural charge exercise.

-Is the 5-4-3-2-1 template with increasing weight effective for strength and size gains if I only do 2 of the lifts per day, not as a circuit, but based on your guidelines? For instance, Id do conventional barbell Deads for 54321 then bench for the same on Mondays ending at 100%, again on Weds ending at 95%, then Fri ending at 100%. Tues and Thurs Id do Standing Military and Barbell Back Squats ending at 100%. All of these would end with the 2 sets of 4-5 with 80-82.5% for hypertrophy.

  • After the main lifts, I’d follow up with assistance lifts to add mass and strength at my weak points, like the Westside method.

-I’d end each session with core and grip work.

I’m not concerned with being any more lean right now, but I really like the idea of lifting heavy and often to get more efficient CNS-wise at these lifts and put on mass and strength while doing so.

Also, as far as peri-workout nutrition…I’m a college student and can’t really afford Plazma. I can assure that I can get in the right amount of macros and calories on either side of the workout though. If you’ve already answered these questions in the livespill or on other threads and I’ve missed them, please just say so and I’ll find them.

Thanks,
Christian

2

[quote]Invictus41 wrote:
-Is the 5-4-3-2-1 template with increasing weight effective for strength and size gains if I only do 2 of the lifts per day, not as a circuit, but based on your guidelines?
[/quote]

Hey man. I’m no Christian Thibaudeau, but I’ve been following the Built for Bad: Strength Circuit for about a week now since he wrote the article on Wednesday. I’ve also been following some of the livespill and forums regarding it, so maybe I can help.

CT has said that using one lift for multiple sets isn’t as optimal because the 2nd exercise that you pick will probably suffer because of fatigue.

I’m not sure how only picking a few lifts a day would work. Your whole plan looks pretty great, though! I’d just try out for a week or 2 what you have and see how it goes. In my opinion, it’s all about experimentation, and then applying what you feel works and sticking with it for a decent amount of time.

:slight_smile:

3

Ok, so basically you are telling me that:

  1. Do less than half of the exercises I prescribed
  2. Do not perform all the lifts 5 days a week
  3. Do not use a circuit format
  4. Perform assistance work (which I don’t use)
  5. Do not want to use the peri-workout protocol that I used and prescribe

Exactly how is this even related to my program?

This kind of question piss me off.

4

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Ok, so basically you are telling me that:

  1. Do less than half of the exercises I prescribed
  2. Do not perform all the lifts 5 days a week
  3. Do not use a circuit format
  4. Perform assistance work (which I don’t use)
  5. Do not want to use the peri-workout protocol that I used and prescribe

Exactly how is this even related to my program?

This kind of question piss me off.[/quote]
eat another burger. and breathe, deep relaxing breaths

sorry. i couldnt resist.

5

CT.
what type of training are you doing currently?
circuit?
layer?
which type?
thanks

6

[quote]domcib wrote:
CT.
what type of training are you doing currently?
circuit?
layer?
which type?
thanks[/quote]

I’m lifting weights

My goal is to regain my strength. I never categorize what I do myself as I build it depending on what my body needs that day. I always do a form of layer since layer simply mean using various methods/loading schemes for one basic movement per day, and that’s how I train when I want to get as strong as possible on a small number of exercises. But what I’m doing isn’t like anything I’ve presented so far.

7

gimme a few

8

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]domcib wrote:
CT.
what type of training are you doing currently?
circuit?
layer?
which type?
thanks[/quote]

I’m lifting weights

My goal is to regain my strength. I never categorize what I do myself as I build it depending on what my body needs that day. I always do a form of layer since layer simply mean using various methods/loading schemes for one basic movement per day, and that’s how I train when I want to get as strong as possible on a small number of exercises. But what I’m doing isn’t like anything I’ve presented so far.

[/quote]
“regain my strength”… my energy is with you.
“needs that day”… That is Awesome! I understand that completely!
“layers to get strong”… of course!
“nothing like presented so far”… typical CT stuff.

I should have known better, but my curiosity got the better of me. I had to ask.
i’m sticking with what i have for now.It’s working, and, i’m on a mission.

By the way,God willing, I am planning on visiting you after April 2014. I said I would teach you to throw the Shot Put.
I know you will love it! And i teach the Old Style… Glide.

Enjoy your evening.

9

CT is the wizard of OZ of lifting. Pure magic. The strength circuits are too much for me. Maybe I can acclimate after a few weeks but I enjoy the layer/ramping style so much more. One big movement - pure focus, performance, etc.

Maybe I’ll do something HFSWish as a gateway to the strength circuit wrkout…

10

[quote]domcib wrote:
gimme a few[/quote]

The thing is that, sadly, getting results it not enough for me. I want to get results while finding out new tweaks to training. Once I know that a specific program works great, I want to find out something new. It’s not something I recommend to anybody, but that’s how I’m wired and it allowed me to come up with tons of effective programs for all tastes.

When I was younger I was passionate about golf and I was the same way… one month I’d try to swing like Fred Couples… when I had the swing figured out and move to a different swing… did that 4-5 times a summer. I was an ok golfer but never became a great golfer because of that… but I understand what makes specific swing work and how to teach and tweak it.

11

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]domcib wrote:
gimme a few[/quote]

The thing is that, sadly, getting results it not enough for me. I want to get results while finding out new tweaks to training. Once I know that a specific program works great, I want to find out something new. It’s not something I recommend to anybody, but that’s how I’m wired and it allowed me to come up with tons of effective programs for all tastes.

When I was younger I was passionate about golf and I was the same way… one month I’d try to swing like Fred Couples… when I had the swing figured out and move to a different swing… did that 4-5 times a summer. I was an ok golfer but never became a great golfer because of that… but I understand what makes specific swing work and how to teach and tweak it.[/quote]

I totally understand you.It is what it is. The good thing is that you realize who you are, and go with it. Seems to me, and i’m sure everyone will agree, that you are doing nice work with it.
Personally, I was a better coach than thrower. I was fortunate enough to have coached a kid that broke my school records. I found that rewarding.
Although he never broke my Javelin record-- I never taught him how to throw it.:slight_smile:
It wasn’t intentional, it’s just the way things panned out.

12

This thread reminded me of the thread to Dan John’s One Lift a Day Program where one user asked whether it was fine to do more than one exercise per day.
Making adjustments to a program is fine, bastardizing a program is not.
If you want to make adjustments to the program, any program for that matter, UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEM the program is based on. CT thinks in higher terms than cookie cutter programs, he experiments with and presents to us TRAINING SYSTEMS.
Why only few people understand the difference is beyond me. Rant over. :slight_smile:

13

CT, for an arms spec could I do something like:

A - Biceip Curls
B - Tricep Kickbacks
C - Wrist Curls
D - Hammer Curls
E - French Press
F - Leg Extension (to make it whole body like your original program)

:wink:

14

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
CT, for an arms spec could I do something like:

A - Biceip Curls
B - Tricep Kickbacks
C - Wrist Curls
D - Hammer Curls
E - French Press
F - Leg Extension (to make it whole body like your original program)

:wink: [/quote]

Kick backs are hard on the CNS, brahhh.

15

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Ok, so basically you are telling me that:

  1. Do less than half of the exercises I prescribed
  2. Do not perform all the lifts 5 days a week
  3. Do not use a circuit format
  4. Perform assistance work (which I don’t use)
  5. Do not want to use the peri-workout protocol that I used and prescribe

Exactly how is this even related to my program?

This kind of question piss me off.[/quote]

I’m not saying I don’t WANT to do your peri-workout protocol, I’m saying as a college student I spend my money on gas, food and a few basic supplements. $70 for a weeks worth of use is not in the cards for me. Additionally, I’m assuming since even YOU needed up to 5 doses of Plazma per workout that hitting all these lifts 5 days a week at the % described without having it, and previously only doing the lifts at most twice a week, that jumping straight into the program would lead to total CNS burnout.

Because I am already lean right now, I’m asking if hitting two lifts a day 2-3 times per week (higher frequency, as you advocate) with the 54321 rep scheme while increasing weight with the percentages you described plus the back off sets would be effective in increasing the efficiency of the CNS in performing these lift thus leading to strength gains, as well as gaining mass. The assistance, grip and core work would address my weak points while also allowing me to keep doing two major lifts everyday at high percentages.

All I was asking is that based on the fact that I wouldn’t be able to recover like you did with the program, and the fact that leaning out is not a factor for me, are my adjustments still going to yield the strength and size gains? If you feel there is another program of yours that I’m unaware of, simply say so.

16

Just because you cant do the full supplement protocol, doesnt mean the program wont be effective. I haven’t been able to afford Biotest stuff for a while and I have still reaped tremendous results from following CT’s advice and methods on here. If you are worried about CNS, why dont you just start with slightly lower weights? In fact doing ‘moderate’ weight, as fast and as explosively as possible every day is probably the best way to get yourself efficient at the lifts. This program is pretty much HFS which CT introduced to us a few years ago, except in a circuit fashion which he has discovered to be superior.

You dont ‘need’ the supplements to make progress, so why not just try the program as CT layed it out? he structured it like it is for a reason.

17

[quote]Invictus41 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Ok, so basically you are telling me that:

  1. Do less than half of the exercises I prescribed
  2. Do not perform all the lifts 5 days a week
  3. Do not use a circuit format
  4. Perform assistance work (which I don’t use)
  5. Do not want to use the peri-workout protocol that I used and prescribe

Exactly how is this even related to my program?

This kind of question piss me off.[/quote]

I’m not saying I don’t WANT to do your peri-workout protocol, I’m saying as a college student I spend my money on gas, food and a few basic supplements. $70 for a weeks worth of use is not in the cards for me. Additionally, I’m assuming since even YOU needed up to 5 doses of Plazma per workout that hitting all these lifts 5 days a week at the % described without having it, and previously only doing the lifts at most twice a week, that jumping straight into the program would lead to total CNS burnout.

Because I am already lean right now, I’m asking if hitting two lifts a day 2-3 times per week (higher frequency, as you advocate) with the 54321 rep scheme while increasing weight with the percentages you described plus the back off sets would be effective in increasing the efficiency of the CNS in performing these lift thus leading to strength gains, as well as gaining mass. The assistance, grip and core work would address my weak points while also allowing me to keep doing two major lifts everyday at high percentages.

All I was asking is that based on the fact that I wouldn’t be able to recover like you did with the program, and the fact that leaning out is not a factor for me, are my adjustments still going to yield the strength and size gains? If you feel there is another program of yours that I’m unaware of, simply say so.

[/quote]

Dude, I have no problem with what you want to do. Just don’t say that it’s a modification of the Built For Bad program because there is zero similarities. Just write what you want to do and ask what I think about it.

18

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Invictus41 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Ok, so basically you are telling me that:

  1. Do less than half of the exercises I prescribed
  2. Do not perform all the lifts 5 days a week
  3. Do not use a circuit format
  4. Perform assistance work (which I don’t use)
  5. Do not want to use the peri-workout protocol that I used and prescribe

Exactly how is this even related to my program?

This kind of question piss me off.[/quote]

I’m not saying I don’t WANT to do your peri-workout protocol, I’m saying as a college student I spend my money on gas, food and a few basic supplements. $70 for a weeks worth of use is not in the cards for me. Additionally, I’m assuming since even YOU needed up to 5 doses of Plazma per workout that hitting all these lifts 5 days a week at the % described without having it, and previously only doing the lifts at most twice a week, that jumping straight into the program would lead to total CNS burnout.

Because I am already lean right now, I’m asking if hitting two lifts a day 2-3 times per week (higher frequency, as you advocate) with the 54321 rep scheme while increasing weight with the percentages you described plus the back off sets would be effective in increasing the efficiency of the CNS in performing these lift thus leading to strength gains, as well as gaining mass. The assistance, grip and core work would address my weak points while also allowing me to keep doing two major lifts everyday at high percentages.

All I was asking is that based on the fact that I wouldn’t be able to recover like you did with the program, and the fact that leaning out is not a factor for me, are my adjustments still going to yield the strength and size gains? If you feel there is another program of yours that I’m unaware of, simply say so.

[/quote]

Dude, I have no problem with what you want to do. Just don’t say that it’s a modification of the Built For Bad program because there is zero similarities. Just write what you want to do and ask what I think about it.[/quote]

Ok, then I apologize for wording my question incorrectly. I’m interested in a few key concepts of the Built for Bad program (higher frequency, heavier weights, getting more efficient CNS-wise at a few basic lifts) while also keeping recovery in mind and addressing weak points. Do you think the program I laid out, taking those concepts into mind, will be efficient in adding size and strength, or do you think there is a more efficient way to do so?