[quote]mikandrea wrote:
I am a physical therapist that specializes in treating bodybuilders. Two things:
1.) Check how balanced your workout is. Multiply your reps x sets x weight for the bench and do the same for rows (the exact opposite muscle group). There should not be a discrepancy…if there is, it should be that the rows have a higher total. You can do this for all joints to remain “balanced”.
2.) Don’t give up on PT. Find a shoulder specialist in your area. Very rarely does someone have to give up benching.
Best of luck and I hope this helps.
Mike
[/quote]
Thanks Mike. During the past 6 months I have been very aware of this need to be more balanced. My upperbody workout generally consists of supersets that work oposing muscle groups;
flat bench 4x8-10 followed by seated rows 4x8-10
incline bench f/b lat pulldowns
db decline bench f/b bentover rows
etc. etc., however I have never computed the sets x reps x weight to see if there is a large descrepency.
When I resume training I will definitely take this into more careful consideration.
I have never been one to neglect my back exercises and started training to be a better football player back in the day - beach lifts were not a priority. That being said i made a shit load of mistakes. I have never worked hard on my flexability - and I know this is a contributing factor. I have also (unintentionally) neglected my rear delts all of these years. I think another factor is that my shoulders have always been very receptive to weight training (they get hyuuge:)) compared to my chest, so I think the rotator cuffs have suffered as a consequence.
I know it seems like I’m a big puss for not getting it checked out and maybe I am. This is the first time in my life I have had to deal with what seems to be a chronic injury. It sucks getting old! I’ll make an appointment to see an orthopod this week.
Remember, though, that lat pulldowns cannot be counted as a “mid-back” exercise. The lats are internal rotators of the shoulder, so if you to figure it out, you’d have to do = number of rows as your 3 different bp’s and your lat pulldowns. I can see why you’re having problems…you’re placing a huge amount of stress on the rotator cuffs with the imbalance that exists in your training. Hope this helps.
[quote]mikandrea wrote:
Remember, though, that lat pulldowns cannot be counted as a “mid-back” exercise. The lats are internal rotators of the shoulder, so if you to figure it out, you’d have to do = number of rows as your 3 different bp’s and your lat pulldowns. I can see why you’re having problems…you’re placing a huge amount of stress on the rotator cuffs with the imbalance that exists in your training. Hope this helps.
Mike[/quote]
I can’t see myself doing that many sets of rows. Maybe I should try less sets of bench. Do you do that many sets of rows?
No, I do not do that many sets of rows. It is my belief that you are overwoking your chest with that many sets of presses. I, personally, follow the Cosgrove/Verstegen approach to my training. I used to perform isolation lifts when I was younger, but wound up with knee pain, shoulder pain, and back pain. I was pretty big then (215 lbs.) vs. now (195), but always in pain. Now, I have occasional back pain, but that’s it…and I truly believe its because I started paying more attention to “balancing” my workouts. Best of luck.
[quote]mikandrea wrote:
I am a physical therapist that specializes in treating bodybuilders. Two things:
1.) Check how balanced your workout is. Multiply your reps x sets x weight for the bench and do the same for rows (the exact opposite muscle group). There should not be a discrepancy…if there is, it should be that the rows have a higher total. You can do this for all joints to remain “balanced”.
2.) Don’t give up on PT. Find a shoulder specialist in your area. Very rarely does someone have to give up benching.
Best of luck and I hope this helps.
Mike
[/quote]
so you are saying that if you are pressing around 225-250 you should be doing that also with bent-over barbell rows???sounds tough to do
No, you don’t have to use the same WEIGHT, but the VOLUME should be the same. In most cases, you have to perform 1-2 extra sets of rows to = volume of bp’s.
Example:
bb bp = 3x10 with 200 = 6000
bb rows = 3x10 with 135 = 4050
Big difference. Now, add 2 more sets of rows and you get 5x10x135 = 6750.
That’ll bring you back into balance. Hope this helps.
[quote]mikandrea wrote:
I am a physical therapist that specializes in treating bodybuilders. Two things:
1.) Check how balanced your workout is. Multiply your reps x sets x weight for the bench and do the same for rows (the exact opposite muscle group). There should not be a discrepancy…if there is, it should be that the rows have a higher total. You can do this for all joints to remain “balanced”.
2.) Don’t give up on PT. Find a shoulder specialist in your area. Very rarely does someone have to give up benching.
Do you have long arms and a relatively flat chest? Maybe a shallow arch? These factors, combined with benching elbows out, will wreak havoc on your shoulders. I used to bench elbows out/small arch because I was worried I’d build “drooping” pecs. Once I brought my elbows in and increased my arch slightly, I felt it more in the pecs (upper area also) and less in the shoulders. Hope this can help.
[quote]TornadoTommy wrote:
Do you have long arms and a relatively flat chest? Maybe a shallow arch? These factors, combined with benching elbows out, will wreak havoc on your shoulders. I used to bench elbows out/small arch because I was worried I’d build “drooping” pecs. Once I brought my elbows in and increased my arch slightly, I felt it more in the pecs (upper area also) and less in the shoulders. Hope this can help.[/quote]
No, I would say that I have more of a “barrel” chest and I wouldn’t consider my arms long - probably average length for my size (5’10", 215 lbs.)
I have tried just benching the bar with my elbows in, big arch, to get the technique down, and it causes some severe burning in the front of my R. deltoid. I can’t get in to an orthopod for 6 wks - this sucks.
Bushy, thanks for the reply. I don’t really have access to cables right now but I do have DB’s. I have never heard the “shoulder dominant” thing before but that is interesting because my shoulders and triceps do seem to grow much faster c/t my pecs.
Maybe concentrating more on fly’s from different angles and just abandoning the barbell altogether for awhile is a good strategy for the time being.
For myself Benching for the best #'s is not a main chest workout. I can only guess maybe 40% delts, 30% chest, and 30% tricep. I discovered this through better technique for my build, which is moderate arch, elbows tucked for long arms.
DB press hit my chest hard and I feel a good burn for a while. Maybe you could try a flat back press that touches high on the chest with a wide grip on the barbell.
[quote]matt88 wrote:
TornadoTommy wrote:
Do you have long arms and a relatively flat chest? Maybe a shallow arch? These factors, combined with benching elbows out, will wreak havoc on your shoulders. I used to bench elbows out/small arch because I was worried I’d build “drooping” pecs. Once I brought my elbows in and increased my arch slightly, I felt it more in the pecs (upper area also) and less in the shoulders. Hope this can help.
No, I would say that I have more of a “barrel” chest and I wouldn’t consider my arms long - probably average length for my size (5’10", 215 lbs.)
I have tried just benching the bar with my elbows in, big arch, to get the technique down, and it causes some severe burning in the front of my R. deltoid. I can’t get in to an orthopod for 6 wks - this sucks.
Bushy, thanks for the reply. I don’t really have access to cables right now but I do have DB’s. I have never heard the “shoulder dominant” thing before but that is interesting because my shoulders and triceps do seem to grow much faster c/t my pecs.
Maybe concentrating more on fly’s from different angles and just abandoning the barbell altogether for awhile is a good strategy for the time being.[/quote]
I used to have shoulder pain on straight bar benches while maintaining good form,started using dumbells and didnt have pain and actually gained more strength.then one day i let some friends talk me into benching with straight bar with them and snapped shattered the little acromium bone thats connected to clavicle.
sports doc said it was probably because our bones are not same exact length and it probably put to much torque on the injured shoulder.after yrs. of pain had it fixed ,can now use 100 pounders on benches inclines etc. again and have done what others recomended about supersetting a back movement before chest movement ,also do bent fly’s before chest with good results.good luck!!!
[quote]ron33 wrote:
matt88 wrote:
TornadoTommy wrote:
Do you have long arms and a relatively flat chest? Maybe a shallow arch? These factors, combined with benching elbows out, will wreak havoc on your shoulders. I used to bench elbows out/small arch because I was worried I’d build “drooping” pecs. Once I brought my elbows in and increased my arch slightly, I felt it more in the pecs (upper area also) and less in the shoulders. Hope this can help.
Thanks man, that’s what I needed to hear. I have it so ingrained into my psyche that “I must do bench press to get strong” that I really neede at least one dude to tell me that just doing dumb bell work, does work. Thanks again
Matt88
No, I would say that I have more of a “barrel” chest and I wouldn’t consider my arms long - probably average length for my size (5’10", 215 lbs.)
I have tried just benching the bar with my elbows in, big arch, to get the technique down, and it causes some severe burning in the front of my R. deltoid. I can’t get in to an orthopod for 6 wks - this sucks.
Bushy, thanks for the reply. I don’t really have access to cables right now but I do have DB’s. I have never heard the “shoulder dominant” thing before but that is interesting because my shoulders and triceps do seem to grow much faster c/t my pecs.
Maybe concentrating more on fly’s from different angles and just abandoning the barbell altogether for awhile is a good strategy for the time being.
I used to have shoulder pain on straight bar benches while maintaining good form,started using dumbells and didnt have pain and actually gained more strength.then one day i let some friends talk me into benching with straight bar with them and snapped shattered the little acromium bone thats connected to clavicle.
sports doc said it was probably because our bones are not same exact length and it probably put to much torque on the injured shoulder.after yrs. of pain had it fixed ,can now use 100 pounders on benches inclines etc. again and have done what others recomended about supersetting a back movement before chest movement ,also do bent fly’s before chest with good results.good luck!!!
[/quote]
I have a small full thickness tear in the supra of the rotator cuff - get yours checked out. And both of my AC joints are bad. I have had several cortisone shots and that helped. I can still do most lifts except for bench and dips, so I have been doing DB pullovers and that seems to be a good substitue for a chect exercise. Good luck…
I found that ART (Active Release Technique) helped me with minor shoulder injuries. Google it, or look around on this website (I originally heard about it here).
