Building a Base

Training
21

[quote]tredaway wrote:
There is a reason behind it, my goal is to get a 2 x bodyweight squat, a 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift and a 1.5 x bodyweight bench press having achieved the squat and deadlift if I can get the bench press I would have achieved my ultimate goal :slight_smile:

jjackkrash thanks for the links its much appreciated i’ll be sure to check them out.[/quote]

But maxing won’t help you reach that goal. If your goal is to get a 1.5x BW bench, time spent testing your bench is time that could have been spent building the bench.

Were I in your situation, I would avoid testing maxes until I had reached a 1.5xBW bench for my work sets, at which point I would know that I had reached my goal.

22

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]tredaway wrote:
There is a reason behind it, my goal is to get a 2 x bodyweight squat, a 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift and a 1.5 x bodyweight bench press having achieved the squat and deadlift if I can get the bench press I would have achieved my ultimate goal :slight_smile:

jjackkrash thanks for the links its much appreciated i’ll be sure to check them out.[/quote]

But maxing won’t help you reach that goal. If your goal is to get a 1.5x BW bench, time spent testing your bench is time that could have been spent building the bench.

Were I in your situation, I would avoid testing maxes until I had reached a 1.5xBW bench for my work sets, at which point I would know that I had reached my goal. [/quote]

To be honest I don’t think I’m testing my 1 rep max that often, I tested it before I tried Wendlers routine as it was a requirement, then again 2 months later and then once again after I had finished a cycle of 5x5 a couple of months ago.

When I test my max and I see an improvement it confirms I’m on the right track and it also motivates me. I may have confused you when I mentioned wanting to finish my 5x5 cycle of with Hepburns singles program where he starts with 4 singles building up to 10 singles before adding weight and dropping back to 4 singles again, just to clear this up these singles are not done with your 1 rep max but with a weight which is roughly between 80 and 90 percent of your 1 rep max.

23

[quote]tredaway wrote:
To be honest I don’t think I’m testing my 1 rep max that often, I tested it before I tried Wendlers routine as it was a requirement, then again 2 months later and then once again after I had finished a cycle of 5x5 a couple of months ago.
[/quote]

We will have to agree to disagree.

24

I suppose so lol , in keeping with the subject of all out maxing how many times a year would the average powerlifter take part in a meet ? I have no idea what the answer would be but would guess it to be around 3 so in that context would that be an acceptable amount of singles to do per year in your view or would that still be to much ?

25

[quote]tredaway wrote:
I suppose so lol , in keeping with the subject of all out maxing how many times a year would the average powerlifter take part in a meet ? I have no idea what the answer would be but would guess it to be around 3 so in that context would that be an acceptable amount of singles to do per year in your view or would that still be to much ?[/quote]

I don’t know of any stats for the average powerlifter. I competed once a year before I got into strongman, and spent the rest of my time building my strength.

26

So would it be a better option to go with say a 3 rep max or something similar for training purposes in your opinion ?

27

[quote]tredaway wrote:
So would it be a better option to go with say a 3 rep max or something similar for training purposes in your opinion ?[/quote]
That would be my suggestion. I haven’t maxed in a while, but in August I could do 295 for 2, now 290 for 6, I could do 225 for 11, now for 16. Even though I had maxed 315, I could not get 300 for more than 1, and yesterday I hit 300 for 4. I must be getting stronger, no need to max.

28

[quote]tredaway wrote:
So would it be a better option to go with say a 3 rep max or something similar for training purposes in your opinion ?[/quote]

I do not see a benefit to performing maxes in training in any rep range. I think training should be for building strength, not testing it.

29

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]tredaway wrote:
So would it be a better option to go with say a 3 rep max or something similar for training purposes in your opinion ?[/quote]

I do not see a benefit to performing maxes in training in any rep range. I think training should be for building strength, not testing it.
[/quote]
So am I reading you right that you think rep PR’s are a bad idea? You never do AMRAP on any sets?

30

As the saying goes I guess its different strokes for different folks. Whilst I don’t go for rep PR’s every session when I’m towards the end of a cycle I do push hard to make my 5 reps for 3 sets, if I know I won’t make the last rep only then will I end the set early so its not training to complete failure although its very close. Thanks for the input even if we did go off topic a little :slight_smile:

31

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]tredaway wrote:
So would it be a better option to go with say a 3 rep max or something similar for training purposes in your opinion ?[/quote]

I do not see a benefit to performing maxes in training in any rep range. I think training should be for building strength, not testing it.
[/quote]
So am I reading you right that you think rep PR’s are a bad idea? You never do AMRAP on any sets?[/quote]

Rep PRs aren’t a bad idea, but they should be training PRs, not a max. The goal of the movement should be to develop strength rather than to demonstrate it.

32

Another thing about testing your 1RM after only a very short time is that it might be affected by other factors. It’s possible that you had a good day when testing it initially and a bad day when testing it again 2 months later.

Not to mention 2 months is a very short time to assess if a program works or not especially for a program like 531 that focuses on a slow and steady progress. In my experience, my strength gains come in spurts and not linearly and it’s very hard to see these gains if i don’t give it enough time to see the bigger picture.

33

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]tredaway wrote:
So would it be a better option to go with say a 3 rep max or something similar for training purposes in your opinion ?[/quote]

I do not see a benefit to performing maxes in training in any rep range. I think training should be for building strength, not testing it.
[/quote]
So am I reading you right that you think rep PR’s are a bad idea? You never do AMRAP on any sets?[/quote]

Rep PRs aren’t a bad idea, but they should be training PRs, not a max. The goal of the movement should be to develop strength rather than to demonstrate it.
[/quote]
Ok, then we are on a similar page. Thanks.

34

[quote]Mizery wrote:
Another thing about testing your 1RM after only a very short time is that it might be affected by other factors. It’s possible that you had a good day when testing it initially and a bad day when testing it again 2 months later.

Not to mention 2 months is a very short time to assess if a program works or not especially for a program like 531 that focuses on a slow and steady progress. In my experience, my strength gains come in spurts and not linearly and it’s very hard to see these gains if i don’t give it enough time to see the bigger picture.[/quote]
So true about nonlinear gains. My first two cycles of 531 weren’t impressive, then my next three were awesome then my next one was sort of flat and then the next great again.

35

Nice thread, with some strong knowlagable poster’s, I avoid 1RM’s at all costs myself, I just put the work in and have faith that I’m getting stronger, were talking about Wendler, and some of the best advice I’ve ever heard is from him ‘’ judge your training by the year, and your goals by the decade’’ not word for word, but great advice never the less, beginer’s always want to push the limits, and expect results, by the week it seems. They ask for advice, but don’t listen when they get it.

If your not at a point to trust your own programing, then you need to find someone, who’s where you want to be, and trust what they say. I personaly like to break the year into 3 — 4mth cycle’s, and alter my training at these intervals, I don’t change programs, but make adjustments along the way. I know when I’m getting stronger, and if somthings working or not, if I start out a 12 week cycle deadlifting 300x8, and after 4 weeks, the program calls for 300x8, I know if the bar’s moving faster, and smoother or not. I don’t need to do a 1 RM or even a rep max, I can feel that my body is getting stronger, I guess this comes with age and time.

Paul Carter has a program, called base building, where you handle the same weight for the same reps, for months at a time, just focusing on improving bar speed, and I actually thought this was a thread about that program Lift-Run-Bang is the sight. Anyway OP, just need to find a person, or a program you trust, and give it time 6mths, or a year, you’ll be lifting for the rest of your life, no need to rush. Goodluck!

36

Thanks for the input, just to clear things up I’m not putting Wendlers 5/3/1 program down far from it all I said was that for me personally I achieved better gains at that moment in time from my 5x5 program. That doesn’t mean I don’t like the wendler training format as many people have had great results from it.

Thanks AnytimeJake once I finish my 5x5 cycle I’m leaning strongly towards Hepburns A program once I find a way to program it as I don’t have time to train 4 x a week as recommended due to work and family commitments.

37

Everyone here has gone 531 crazy, and it’s a great program, but guys were getting strong long before it was invented. When I train kids/young adults, enjoyment is a big part of the game plan. You can have the best program on the planet, but if my client hates it, or dosen’t enjoy doing it, progress will be slow, if any.

On the other side of the equation, I’ve seen kids on shit programs that they love, and put they’re heat and soul into, and then get great results. When your dealing with beginer’s you have to keep this in mind, older lifter’s will plug away on boring programs, but you have to keep young lifter’s interested. If you find 531 boring, or it just dosen’t suit you, it’s not the end of the world, as it might fit you latter on.

I’m not familiar with this Hepburn program, but he was a great lifter, and I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about, so give it a shot, it won’t make you weaker I’m sure, just make sure you give it time, atleast 4mths is what I like. If you spend atleast 4mths on a bunch of different programs, you’ll learn, understand your body, and what works for you. You can’t force a square peg, into a round hole, so try different things, and see what works.

The point is to have firm goals in place, and make sure the programs your doing have you heading in that direction. If you want to be a PLer, doing FST-7 for 4mths, isn’t going to help, but 531 for 4mths, then Hepburn for 4mths, then 5x5 for 4mths. All have you heading in the same direction, they’re all based around the same exercises, with similar sets and reps, just keep moving towards your goals. This is a journey, and you can’t figure it out all at once, just keep learning, and getting stronger. Goodluck !

38

There is this constant urge to find the perfect newbie’s program though, and I for one won’t stand in its way. Personally, though, strength training has always been a holistic self improvement thing. I like to improvise.

39

Thanks again for the tips AnytimeJake, i will definitely take on board what you have told me and the other concerning over doing the 1 rep max thing. I have learned a few lessons since starting this thread :slight_smile: