“We’ve actually conducted three research projects on HOT-ROX’s ingredient A7-E. It’s unpublished because these pilots are lead-ins to a major study that we’re midway through. We’re using 90 subjects, which makes this the largest study ever conducted in our industry.”
That’s kinda frightening. I knew the research done by the supplement industry was crap, but I never knew the full extent of it.
You better bewarey, because they guzzle up the things you prize (prize prize).
[quote]luddini wrote:
I like the idea of no sweeteners. Not using Surge/Grow! for the taste. If I can mow down a can of sardines I can handle non-sweetened whey protein products.
Legolas wrote:
I agree completely with eliminating the sucralose.
It is the very reason I just order my own custom blend with no sweeteners.
[/quote]
Unsweetened would definitely be an option for Biotest to explore. It seems that there would be no additional costs incurred; it might even be cheaper to make.
AF Sergeant
Some comments:
I am another Canadian happy to hear about the USPS option! Currently I buy my Grow! from SND Canada, and my bottles (Spike, HOT-ROX, etc) from the Biotest online store. With USPS the shipping might be reasonable enough to ship the Grow! as well.
Also someone on this thread mentioned a suggestion for a unsweetened Grow!. I would purchase that (along with the other flavours).
Currently I purchase a competitor’s unflavoured, unsweetened whey product for thickening soups and sauces. I would purchase this product from Biotest if it was an option (even at a higher cost).
Also thanks for the history of Myostat. I was wondering what happened to that product.
You mentioned Biotest’s attempts at Creatine products … let me just say that Ribose-C was an amazing success of a product, too bad it wasn’t financially successful too. I bought out two local GNC’s when Ribose-C went off the market and now my supply is out.
Perhaps in the post Prohormone market Biotest could consider a third kick at the can? If Biotest would make a capsule based version of Ribose-C to compete with all of the Creatine-estery-things out there, I promise to buy two years worth from Biotest online as soon as it’s released.
Thanks!
Dustin.
PS looking forward to ordering the EFA/Fish Oil product!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/print.php?url=/releases/2005/12/051208230252.htm
Source: Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions
Date: 2005-12-08
URL: 'Mighty Mice': New Muscle-building Agent Beats All Previous Ones | ScienceDaily
‘Mighty Mice’: New Muscle-building Agent Beats All Previous Ones
The Johns Hopkins scientists who first created “mighty mice” have developed, with pharmaceutical company Wyeth and the biotechnology firm MetaMorphix, an agent that’s more effective at increasing muscle mass in mice than a related potential treatment for muscular dystrophy now in clinical trials.
The new agent is a version of a cellular docking point for the muscle-limiting protein myostatin. In mice, just two weekly injections of the new agent triggered a 60 percent increase in muscle size, the researchers report in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, published online Dec. 5 and available publicly through the journal’s website.
The researchers’ original mighty mice, created by knocking out the gene that codes for myostatin, grew muscles twice as big as normal mice. An antibody against myostatin now in clinical trials caused mice to develop muscles 25 percent larger than those of untreated mice after five weeks or more of treatment.
The researchers’ expectation is that blocking myostatin might help maintain critical muscle strength in people whose muscles are wasting due to diseases like muscular dystrophy or side effects from cancer treatment or AIDS.
“This new inhibitor of myostatin, known as ACVR2B, is very potent and gives very dramatic effects in the mice,” says Se-Jin Lee, M.D., Ph.D., a professor of molecular biology and genetics in Johns Hopkins’ Institute for Basic Biomedical Sciences. “Its effects were larger and faster than we’ve seen with any other agent, and they were even larger than we expected.”
ACVR2B is the business end of a cellular docking point for the myostatin protein, and it probably works in part by mopping up myostatin so it can’t exert its muscle-inhibiting influence. But the researchers’ experiments also show that the new agent’s extra potency stems from its ability to block more than just myostatin, says Lee.
“We don’t know how many other muscle-limiting proteins there may be or which ones they are,” says Lee, “but these experiments clearly show that myostatin is not the whole story.”
The evidence for other players came from experiments with mighty mice themselves. Because these mice don’t have any myostatin, any effects of injecting the new agent would come from its effects on other proteins, explains Lee. After five injections over four weeks, mighty mice injected with the new agent had muscles 24 percent larger than their counterparts that didn’t get the new agent.
“In some ways this was supposed to be a control experiment,” says Lee. “We weren’t really expecting to see an effect, let alone an effect that sizeable.”
In other experiments with normal female mice, weekly injections of the new agent provided the biggest effect on muscle growth after just two weeks at the highest dose given (50 milligrams per kilogram mouse weight). Depending on the muscle group analyzed, the treated mice’s muscles were bigger than untreated mice by 39 percent (the gastrocnemius [calf] muscle) to 61 percent (the triceps).
After just one week, mice given a fifth of that highest dose had muscles 16 percent to 25 percent bigger than untreated mice, depending on the muscle group analyzed, and mice treated with one injection a week for two, three or four weeks continued to gain muscle mass.
But although the new agent seems quite promising, its advantage in potency also requires extra caution. “We don’t know what else the new agent is affecting or whether those effects will turn out to be entirely beneficial,” says Lee.
Lee says they also are conducting experiments with the mice now to see whether the effect lasts after injections cease and whether it helps a mouse model of muscular dystrophy retain enough muscle strength to prolong life.
The research was funded by grants from the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development and the National Cancer Institute and by funds from Wyeth Research and MetaMorphix Inc. The new agent was produced and first tested at Wyeth, and the inhibitor used in the current mouse studies was produced at MetaMorphix. All of the mouse studies described in this article and in the PNAS paper were conducted in Lee’s laboratory at Johns Hopkins.
Authors on the report are Se-Jin Lee and Suzanne Sebald of Johns Hopkins; Lori Reed of Wyeth Exploratory Drug Safety, and Monique Davies, Stefan Girgenrath, Mary Goad, Kathy Tomkinson, Jill Wright and Neil Wolfman of Wyeth Discovery Research; Christopher Barker, Gregory Ehrmantraut, James Holmstrom and Betty Trowell of MetaMorphix Canada; Barry Gertz, Man-Shiow Jiang, Li-fang Liang, Edwin Quattlebaum and Ronald Stotish of MetaMorphix, Beltsville, Md.; Martin Matzuk of Baylor College of Medicine; and En Li of Harvard Medical School.
Myostatin was licensed by The Johns Hopkins University to MetaMorphix and sublicensed to Wyeth. Lee is entitled to a share of sales royalty received by The Johns Hopkins University from sales of this factor. The Johns Hopkins University and Lee also own MetaMorphix stock, which is subject to certain restrictions under university policy. Lee is a paid consultant to MetaMorphix. The terms of these arrangements are being managed by the university in accordance with its conflict of interest policies.
On the Web: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0505996102v1
Editor’s Note: The original news release can be found here.
So I am curious…where does everyone agree the best site for buying supplements are?
Some brands are noticeably better than others, particularly in purity and potency. Some are sold strictly by mass advertising. I think its important to try many different ones to know the most compatible one with your individual chemical needs.
[quote]PSKlifter wrote:
So I am curious…where does everyone agree the best site for buying supplements are?[/quote]
How about this site?
When you think about it, even plain old sugar has severe negative side effects when used in excess. Are those worse that the potential side effects of artificial sweeteners?
Even given that point of view, I’ll throw in my vote for an unsweetened Grow! powder. I can add my own stevia, or saccharin for that matter, if I like.
But I doubt it’ll sell all that much. And it will incur extra costs, just in labelling and inventory.
Personally, im 20 yrs old, and ever since stumbling apon T-Nation, i religously buy their Low-Carb Grow!, and Surge (best supplement i’ve ever used). They are staples in my nutrition plan and will continue to be, as long as their available (especialy Surge).
T-Nation as a website is in my opinion a godsend with a wealth of info. FREE INFO at that. For that you will always have my appreciation, and as for the advertising side, the cost/quality/usefullness/TASTE for the basics (protein powders, Surge) is resonable enough to warrant my choosing them over others. The one stop shop idea 2 me makes sense, besides the protein, sure, the soon to be fish oil, the only thing missing in my opinion would be an effective formula for a multivitamin/mineral with enough in it to be able to accomodate the collegiate/elite athlete with one serving a day (instead of a serving 2x/ day).
With these, all the basics would be covered, and good cost/quality would be assured as all of the other Biotest products have proved. Basicaly what im saying is that while i would not pay for the info (thanks T-Nation), as long as quality to cost ratio are kept up (if not made better) i feel that i owe you guys my loyalty buy buying the supplements that i will buy anyway from you guys.
At least untill i find better, which i have yet to do. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, but keep in mind that im also a young adult with limted funds. ;- ) So all in all, yall need to make that bomb ass fish-oil and bomb ass multi-vitamin thing happen and we can keep it moving. thats what im talking bout! I mean, c’mon bro, if you use 2 tubs of grow a month, thats only mabe 60-65 dollars at most for a proven quality supplement that (dont lie) you will buy anyway (if not here, then somewhere else). Its not like they tricking you 2 get something that you weren’t planning on getting.
What did the supplement store ever do 4 u??? but as 4 T-Nation, dont start getting all money hungry like everyone else (not that you are). Stay tru to yourself make your profit to run the site and provide for your family, and keep giving the great info (articles, discussions) and the well priced supplements. As 4 me, i’ll continue to give support as best as possible, but dont play us and resort to the DARK SIDE of the industry.
Thats enough of me 4 now, Holla!
It was not my intention to offend you.
I also did not say stevia was a worse alternative then sucralose.
I see people say 'all natural? is a safe choice. That bothers me because its not true. Granted that my not have been what you meant, so my apologies for that.
“However, I think if Biotest offered a dick flavored supplement, you would be all over it and buy it by the bundle. Enough said!?”
I’m not quite sure why this statement was considered necessary.
[quote]jdepron wrote:
It was not my intention to offend you.
I also did not say stevia was a worse alternative then sucralose.
I see people say 'all natural? is a safe choice. That bothers me because its not true. Granted that my not have been what you meant, so my apologies for that.
“However, I think if Biotest offered a dick flavored supplement, you would be all over it and buy it by the bundle. Enough said!?”
I’m not quite sure why this statement was considered necessary.[/quote]
It wasn’t necessary; it was said out of frustration. I constantly read threads where someone throws out a comment that attempts to draw someone into an argument or slams someone for no apparent reason. If that was not your intent, I apologize.
I felt that my request to Biotest for a particular product drew unwarranted/ unwanted criticism from the peanut gallery. As I stated earlier, everyone is entitled to express an opinion. I just felt that this post turned into something that wasn’t relevant to the original thread.
AF Sergeant
Any news on the USPS shipping and the EFA sup?
[quote]luddini wrote:
I like the idea of no sweeteners. Not using Surge/Grow! for the taste. If I can mow down a can of sardines I can handle non-sweetened whey protein products.
Legolas wrote:
I agree completely with eliminating the sucralose.
It is the very reason I just order my own custom blend with no sweeteners.
[/quote]
I’ll put in another vote for dropping the sucralose.
“It’s about US fans, period. They represent 96% of our traffic volume…”
I doubt that.
Jaystyles
[quote]jaystyles wrote:
“It’s about US fans, period. They represent 96% of our traffic volume, and they have no problems with customs or shipping costs…”
I doubt that.
Jaystyles[/quote]
Which part do you doubt?
I’ve been using your products for a year now and I highly recommend them to all my friends. I find the Spike does wonders for my workouts after working in a office all day and come home tried with energy running low. Also keeps me sharp throughout a day full of meetings. The Low-Carb Grow! and Metabolic Drive bars are well worth the money and shipping is super fast. Keep up all the good work.
Where are we on getting the new efa/cla product? Days?Weeks?..
I can’t claim to know everything about Wal-Mart but I can see why they could pay on time - they don’t pay their employees! Wal-Mart has more employees on government assitance than any other employer in this country. Whether it’s welfare, medicare, or WIC.
So those LOW prices are being subsidised by you and me(the taxpayer) because Wal-Mart won’t pay them enough. Essentially the State pays for their health benefits. Pretty sweet deal for Wal-Mart. Raw deal for us. In some counties schools have closed down while Wal-mart gets subsidies to open it’s doors.
And this says nothing of the work conditions of their foreign factories.
So while Wal-Mart may be the best in terms of paying other businesses for their products they are perhaps the worst in terms of treating their employees.
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
I can’t claim to know everything about Wal-Mart but I can see why they could pay on time - they don’t pay their employees! Wal-Mart has more employees on government assitance than any other employer in this country. Whether it’s welfare, medicare, or WIC.
So those LOW prices are being subsidised by you and me(the taxpayer) because Wal-Mart won’t pay them enough. Essentially the State pays for their health benefits. Pretty sweet deal for Wal-Mart. Raw deal for us. In some counties schools have closed down while Wal-mart gets subsidies to open it’s doors.
And this says nothing of the work conditions of their foreign factories.
So while Wal-Mart may be the best in terms of paying other businesses for their products they are perhaps the worst in terms of treating their employees.[/quote]
Dude, this has nothing to do with what Tim wrote – there are two whole threads over on the Politics forum on this. Go participate over there.
I really must ask why all the Wal-Mart Bashing? There is such hate for this company, and it really is not logical other then people not liking big business. If you work there and don’t like the pay, go somewhere else. (Yes there are other jobs and places to work believe it or not.)
Are they perfect? Hell no. But if a person is working for that pay it is because they are willing to. If nobody was willing to work for that pay, then they would have to pay more to get employees. Simple economics. And since they are paying that much, it is because people are willing to work for that pay.
So really if there is anyone to blame, is it the company, or the people?
(No time for the political forum right now.)