I am struggling to bring up all 3 lifts at once. I can bring up 2 at the very most but after that my lifts go down or stay the same. I tried working on my squat for a couple months and only deadlifting 2-3 times in that 2 month window. Decent progress in my squat but at the end of the 2 months I lost almost 100lbs off of my deadlift. Does anyone else out there struggle with this? My main question is how do you keep progressing all 3 lifts without sacrificing any of the the other lifts?
Can’t relate to this exactly because unless I’ve planned differently all three lifts have gone up maybe not in same ratios tho. Maybe smarter programming or being realistic/thinking long term could help here?
It’s possible to bring up all three lifts at once as is demonstrated by plenty of elite lifters but if you’re an experienced super duper strong lifter generating loads of fatigue I can see it being difficult to do just that without a fine tuned custom program that’s reviewed and regulated on the fly.
Maybe aiming to maintain or barely improve one lift and improving the other two one training cycle and alternating lifts the next cycle can work to improve all three lifts in the long term. The maintained lift doesn’t exactly need to go nowhere however e.g. improved technique via technique focused assistance work. Perhaps being more conservative with the two lifts you wish to improve most will allow you to allocate those resources to the third lift and get some modest improvements in it.
This is until you can optimize your programming to be effective and within your recovery means because I think most lifters would be able to improve all three lifts at the same time. Bit of trial and error but a smart look over at our most recent training cycles, at what went well/poorly and why is always worthwhile.
Coming at things the other way around improving recovery could be useful because there is no point doing more work if you can’t recovery from it in the long term. We can all do a little better in terms of recovery/fatigue management e.g. sleep for myself.
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Short answer: train intelligently.
What are you expecting in terms of progress? I’ve learned that constantly trying to add weight to tie bar will slow you down at best. Get better at the lifts. Get bigger. When you peak, you’ll see the weight increase.
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What does your current training look like?
It seems to me some lifters seem too concerned about where they are in a couple of months of training. You have to look at the big picture.
You have to put in work. It’s boring. A good 5x5 program can be manipulated in any way you wish. 5’s give you a solid base.
There’s 3 ways I have run a 5x5 program. Any set over 50% is considered work weight.
- Straight sets. Pick a weight and do it for 5x5. Preferably just over 50% of your max.
- Pyramid sets. 225-250-275-250-225. Get it?
- Top set. 225-250-275-300-325. One heavy top set.
What this does is make you work. You aren’t concerned with where your one rep max is. You are working. Building muscle and strength.
You cannot go wrong with this. It’s the most proven method out there from beginner to elite lifters. Eat some food. Get plenty of rest. Just work with weights you can handle. Master those first. Bigger weights WILL come.
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There is no reason why you can’t bring up your squat and deadlift at the same time, your deadlift probably went down because your technique was fucked from barely training it. Even if you aren’t going to pull heavy every week it would still be a good idea to do some light deadlifts, like speed pulls or something of that sort.
You should also be able to bring up all lifts at the same time but keep in mind that your body only has so much resources to spread around, if you focus on either bench (upper body) or sq/dl (lower body) then you can get better results in those particular lifts but remember in PL you are trying to build a total. You have to train each lift with appropriate volume and learn how to manage fatigue.
If you are a bench specialist and not doing 3 lift meets then there is no need to go heavy on the squat and deadlift when you are training for a meet, put them on maintenance and do moderate volume at a moderate intensity so that you can get more out of your bench.
There have also been guys with world class squats and deadlifts that sucked at bench and never really trained it much such as Sheiko’s lifter Maxim Podtynny and Josh Bryant’s lifter Matt Soehmer. Both guys never had much potential in the bench press so rather than waste time and energy on a lift that wasn’t going to pay off they focused the majority of their training on the squat and deadlift. If training to add 20lbs. to your bench is going to cost 50lbs. off your total then it isn’t a good investment, right?
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All powerlifters who compete in full power center their training around bringing up the big three all at once. They might have better progress in certain lifts than others based on their body, but I think they all build upon each other.
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I don’t have a set number in mind of what I want my lifts to be I just want them to keep progressing. I feel like I’ve just hit a wall where say hit 240 x5 on squat then a few days later where I might normally hit 380 x5 deadlifting I’ll only be able to hit 350. The deadlift I feel impairs my recovery most of all for squatting. I feel like I can only hit a hard squat or deadlift once a week. I think it’s more of a mental thing then a physical thing, I only get a stiff or sore lower back every now and then. Overall I might just have to re structure my programming and use even lower percentages of my maxes and make extremely slow but steady progress
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At your current level there is no reason that you shouldn’t be making steady progress. Either your training is fucked or there is something wrong with your sleep and nutrition. Are you one of those guys who lifts in the daytime and then spends the night at the bar?
You don’t need to be squatting and deadlifting heavy more than once a week, you should be able to make progress just fine like that. Deadlift usually progresses just fine with low frequency, very few people pull more than twice a week. You would probably benefit from squatting twice a week though, just to get some technique practice on a second day. Just add some light squats on your deadlift day, either before or after deadlifting. I would take around 60% of your squat max and do 5-6 doubles with 45-60 sec. rest in between, focus on technique and moving the bar as fast as possible (without screwing up of course).
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Maybe you need a deload/rest? Just a few weeks ago, I hit 395x3 for deadlifts, and couldn’t hit 375x3 the week after, so I cut my session short and took it easy the whole week. I also didn’t eat right that day, but with all the other stuff I ahd going on that week, decided to take advantage and use the time off.
You mention doing a top set of 5 for deads and squat.
For me one top set of 5 is not going to keep my progress going. It sounds like you need more volume. Don’t go crazy with volume right away (see how your body responds).
One recommendation other have mentioned is to incorporate a speed day. If you have trouble with recovery those speed days can really make a difference (also if you have never done speed work, your lifts will probably go up from the new stimulus).
I have found I recover pretty well on the cube method. Maybe give that a try. There is a calculator at blackironbeast that will give you the whole program. It has a heavy, speed, volume, and assistance day. I have consistently put 50-60 lbs on my total each of the 4 times I have run it.
One last thought… What percentage are you training at. It sounds like your set of 5 is all out. It is very hard to make long run progress going balls to the wall every session. I like training with %s, but RPE is good too.
Without seeing how your training is set out it’s hard to say for sure, but I’m leaning towards a programming issue.
Lot of long posts but didn’t see any mention of drinking enough water throughout the day. It makes a noticeable difference for me. A gallon to 1.5 a day will do wonders if your not drinking enough already
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I’m straight edge and I do get enough sleep but my work schedule changes a lot and I end up going from first shift to second shift a lot. I think my problem is more mental, I can’t get myself pumped and amped to squat heavy or deadlift heavy twice a week although I enjoy it. I’ve been a big coffee drinker for the past couple years and have really relied on it for work and training, wondering how much caffeine addiction really affects your adrenaline? I need almost 3 cups of coffee to feel anything anymore and without it I just feel unmotivated and complacent
Dehydration could be a part of it, since I drink 4-6 cups of coffee on an average day
Right now just doing a basic linear progression squatting 3 times, benching 3 times and deadlifts once or twice a week. Starting with sets of 6 until I can’t add 5lbs every week, then doing sets of 5, then 4, then 3 etc. 2 maybe 3 assistance exercises per training session. Spending a lot more time stretching with bands and foam rolling lately which not sure if it’s placebo but definitely makes me feel better
There’s your problem. First off, that’s a progression model that’ll only really work for someone very, very new to the game. Once you start using even vaguely heavier loads it’ll run you into the ground pretty quickly.
Here’s the thing a lot of programs, systems and people get wrong: you don’t need to constantly add load to progress. Load is just one variable that we can use to generate fatigue - and it’s recovering from fatigue that results in adaptation, aka getting stronger. Using increased load to generate fatigue works, up to a point. It also carries a higher risk than, for example, increasing volume or manipulating rest periods.
The two fail-safe ways to progress are to recover from fatigue and to add muscle. You absolutey don’t need to add load to achieve either of these. All you need to do is work. A good place to start is Prilepin’s chart. Look at the recommended repsxsets and total reps and work within that. Then do a bunch of bodybuilding. After six months or so, do a short peak and test your maxes. Repeat.
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Going to heavily implement this. And I guess it makes sense, repping out a certain weight once doesn’t mean you’ve mastered it. You can always move the weight faster and with better form
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Too much caffeine can affect recovery, and sleep quality in particular.
@MarkKO is having some success with Greg Panora’s coaching, you might consider buying the 5th Set e-book if you aren’t looking to hire a coach. Otherwise find a coach or program that has a good track record, there are plenty out there. If you don’t know what you are doing then you can end up wasting a lot of time.
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Height / weight / age and time training ?
I personally cannot tolerate high-volume dead lifting. I generally don’t pull heavy for more than triples. Especially conventional
I’m back training conjugate and only pulling heavy 2x month and 2x month speed work. But am squatting heavy every week and a speed day.
Seems to allow me to recover well
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Correct. Focus on your technique. Weight doesn’t matter until you peak.