Out of pure curiosity, does increasing your 20RM on squat, does it increase your 1RM? I’ve read that a lot of people LOSE 1RM strength after doing 20 rep squats, but I can’t see how it’s possible. If you make your 5RM into a 20RM in 6 week, then your 1RM has to increase. Is it possible that these people need a transitioning period after 20 rep squats to get their body used to heavier weights and less reps? Kind of like a peaking cycle, only that you’re not peaking for a meet?
I think both rep ranges are useful and that they compliment one another. I, for example, although a noobie, have been witnessing improvements for both my 3 RM and 20RM every week. Although i’m not sure if my style of leg training is ideal of optimal size/strength, I am however content with the leg progress I am making by incorporating both 3 RM and 20 RM.
[quote]basily wrote:
I think both rep ranges are useful and that they compliment one another. I, for example, although a noobie, have been witnessing improvements for both my 3 RM and 20RM every week. Although i’m not sure if my style of leg training is ideal of optimal size/strength, I am however content with the leg progress I am making by incorporating both 3 RM and 20 RM.[/quote]
Yes but by simultaneously working your 3RM and 20RM you don’t know which of this is helping increase the 3RM.
What I’m talking about it doing the specific routine, the Breathing Squat routine, 20 Rep squats, where you squat 1 all out set of 20 reps, and increase by 5-10lbs each session. Where there are NO heavy singles, doubles, triples or sets of 5
I can see that. straining under the cardio load of 20 squats is a totally different animal from straining under your 1RM.
Anthony I’m kind of surprised you asked this question. you’ve felt the difference between your 5RM and 1RM firsthand.
[quote]XArena wrote:
[quote]basily wrote:
I think both rep ranges are useful and that they compliment one another. I, for example, although a noobie, have been witnessing improvements for both my 3 RM and 20RM every week. Although i’m not sure if my style of leg training is ideal of optimal size/strength, I am however content with the leg progress I am making by incorporating both 3 RM and 20 RM.[/quote]
Yes but by simultaneously working your 3RM and 20RM you don’t know which of this is helping increase the 3RM.
What I’m talking about it doing the specific routine, the Breathing Squat routine, 20 Rep squats, where you squat 1 all out set of 20 reps, and increase by 5-10lbs each session. Where there are NO heavy singles, doubles, triples or sets of 5[/quote]
There are defintely heavy singles under the bar on breathing squats. It was rest-pause before the term was even coined. Done properly you should be be seriously rethinking even attempting 20 reps after the six rep. I’ve never had such an indescribable feeling of subconscious dread. The absolute worst dreams I ever had. But it teaches you intensity and perseverence.
I personally think 20RM training would increase your 1RM, just not to the point that is an effective way to raise your 1RM…compared to say a low rep strength program. It could also help via form improvements.
I also agree it would take some time to transition to heavy weights like you said.
Yes but it’s a rest-pause type thing, I know it conditions you but you can’t really call it a cardio load, In my opinion at least.
There is a great difference between my 5RM and my 1RM but when my 5RM increases, my 1RM does as well, even though there is quite the gap between them.
What I’m saying is this, IF you have a 5RM of 315 and you start 20 rep squats at 225 (90lbs less than 315, as recommended by most) and you work up to 315x20 over the course of 6 weeks, your 1RM SHOULD have increased, because if you went from a solid 5RM of 315, to a 20RM of 315 (even if it is rest-pause) your 1RM should have increased… because your 5RM HAD to have increased because your old 5RM is now your 20RM weight.
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]XArena wrote:
[quote]basily wrote:
I think both rep ranges are useful and that they compliment one another. I, for example, although a noobie, have been witnessing improvements for both my 3 RM and 20RM every week. Although i’m not sure if my style of leg training is ideal of optimal size/strength, I am however content with the leg progress I am making by incorporating both 3 RM and 20 RM.[/quote]
Yes but by simultaneously working your 3RM and 20RM you don’t know which of this is helping increase the 3RM.
What I’m talking about it doing the specific routine, the Breathing Squat routine, 20 Rep squats, where you squat 1 all out set of 20 reps, and increase by 5-10lbs each session. Where there are NO heavy singles, doubles, triples or sets of 5[/quote]
There are defintely heavy singles under the bar on breathing squats. It was rest-pause before the term was even coined. Done properly you should be be seriously rethinking even attempting 20 reps after the six rep. I’ve never had such an indescribable feeling of subconscious dread. The absolute worst dreams I ever had. But it teaches you intensity and perseverence. [/quote]
I get that feeling of subconscious dread whenever I do a squat set over 5 and a deadlift set over a single…
I can understand that increasing your 20RM weight by 90lbs would give a smaller return, possibly no return, in strength if you have a pretty high 1RM, because the higher your 1RM the smaller 90lbs is to your 1RM. For example, 90lbs is a greater percentage of a persons max, if there max is 200lbs, rather than 600lbs.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, I’m really interested in why an increase in 20RM don’t affect some people’s 1RM.
[quote]XArena wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]XArena wrote:
[quote]basily wrote:
I think both rep ranges are useful and that they compliment one another. I, for example, although a noobie, have been witnessing improvements for both my 3 RM and 20RM every week. Although i’m not sure if my style of leg training is ideal of optimal size/strength, I am however content with the leg progress I am making by incorporating both 3 RM and 20 RM.[/quote]
Yes but by simultaneously working your 3RM and 20RM you don’t know which of this is helping increase the 3RM.
What I’m talking about it doing the specific routine, the Breathing Squat routine, 20 Rep squats, where you squat 1 all out set of 20 reps, and increase by 5-10lbs each session. Where there are NO heavy singles, doubles, triples or sets of 5[/quote]
There are defintely heavy singles under the bar on breathing squats. It was rest-pause before the term was even coined. Done properly you should be be seriously rethinking even attempting 20 reps after the six rep. I’ve never had such an indescribable feeling of subconscious dread. The absolute worst dreams I ever had. But it teaches you intensity and perseverence. [/quote]
I get that feeling of subconscious dread whenever I do a squat set over 5 and a deadlift set over a single…[/quote]
No, no you don’t.
[quote]XArena wrote:
I can understand that increasing your 20RM weight by 90lbs would give a smaller return, possibly no return, in strength if you have a pretty high 1RM, because the higher your 1RM the smaller 90lbs is to your 1RM. For example, 90lbs is a greater percentage of a persons max, if there max is 200lbs, rather than 600lbs.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, I’m really interested in why an increase in 20RM don’t affect some people’s 1RM.[/quote]
Because breathing squats aren’t done with your 20RM.
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]XArena wrote:
I can understand that increasing your 20RM weight by 90lbs would give a smaller return, possibly no return, in strength if you have a pretty high 1RM, because the higher your 1RM the smaller 90lbs is to your 1RM. For example, 90lbs is a greater percentage of a persons max, if there max is 200lbs, rather than 600lbs.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, I’m really interested in why an increase in 20RM don’t affect some people’s 1RM.[/quote]
Because breathing squats aren’t done with your 20RM.[/quote]
They’re usually done with one’s 10RM, but still… how does increasing it not affect your 1RM?
first, high volume training is a cure for size, not for strength. Bodybuilders train in high reps (maybe not 20) and they dnt see much increase in their 1RM. I remember reading this article once comparing a bodybuilder to a powerlifter, while the powerlifter has a significantly higher 1RM squat, he had a really shitty Rep out Max compared with the bodybuilder.
This can be explained by the conception of Strength(Myofibrillated) Hypertrophy vs. Size(Sarcoplasmic) Hypertrophy. Contractions of the muscle at a small rep range against 80-100% 1RM results in the former while whatever else results in the latter. Of course your 1RM will increase if you are able to make your previous 5RM into your new 20RM, but there’s a reason why powerlifters don’t train intensly with greater than 10 reps. Once over 10 reps, you stop trying to recruite the most muscel fiber to hit that maximal strength mark on your strength curve efficiently, and that’s why people who do 20RM dont see much increase in their 1RM. In simple term, they are trained to not recruite all their muscle fibers for a few rep but used to spread them out over high reps. Hence, not being able to hit a 1RM efficiently as those who consistently train to recruite the most muscle fibers for 1 rep.
Explained?
Second, why do you want to do this?
[quote]XArena wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]XArena wrote:
I can understand that increasing your 20RM weight by 90lbs would give a smaller return, possibly no return, in strength if you have a pretty high 1RM, because the higher your 1RM the smaller 90lbs is to your 1RM. For example, 90lbs is a greater percentage of a persons max, if there max is 200lbs, rather than 600lbs.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, I’m really interested in why an increase in 20RM don’t affect some people’s 1RM.[/quote]
Because breathing squats aren’t done with your 20RM.[/quote]
They’re usually done with one’s 10RM, but still… how does increasing it not affect your 1RM?
[/quote]
That’s not your 20rm to begin with. I’m outta here.
[quote]Macmade wrote:
first, high volume training is a cure for size, not for strength. Bodybuilders train in high reps (maybe not 20) and they dnt see much increase in their 1RM. I remember reading this article once comparing a bodybuilder to a powerlifter, while the powerlifter has a significantly higher 1RM squat, he had a really shitty Rep out Max compared with the bodybuilder.
This can be explained by the conception of Strength(Myofibrillated) Hypertrophy vs. Size(Sarcoplasmic) Hypertrophy. Contractions of the muscle at a small rep range against 80-100% 1RM results in the former while whatever else results in the latter. Of course your 1RM will increase if you are able to make your previous 5RM into your new 20RM, but there’s a reason why powerlifters don’t train intensly with greater than 10 reps. Once over 10 reps, you stop trying to recruite the most muscel fiber to hit that maximal strength mark on your strength curve efficiently, and that’s why people who do 20RM dont see much increase in their 1RM. In simple term, they are trained to not recruite all their muscle fibers for a few rep but used to spread them out over high reps. Hence, not being able to hit a 1RM efficiently as those who consistently train to recruite the most muscle fibers for 1 rep.
Explained?
Second, why do you want to do this?[/quote]
Strength isn’t just Myofribullar or whatever the fuck it is, it’s also neural adaptations. By the way this whole sacroplasmic or whatever it’s called bull shit was based off of a study on rats in super training, I have the book.
But yes, you do recruit more muscle fibers when you’re handling heavier weight, but regardless of high reps or low reps… if on January first you do 315 for 5 reps, but on March first you do 315 for 20 reps, WOULD YOUR 1RM NOT BE HIGHER?
yes because your legs will have enlarged to the size of tree trunks.
like i said, it would be higher, but not significantly. Your neural adaptation will adapt to spreading the butter of 20 reps as opposed to shove it down in 1 rep, muscle fiber recruitment is recruited by the CNS isn’t it?
[quote]Macmade wrote:
like i said, it would be higher, but not significantly. Your neural adaptation will adapt to spreading the butter of 20 reps as opposed to shove it down in 1 rep, muscle fiber recruitment is recruited by the CNS isn’t it? [/quote]
That’s why I suggested the transitioning period in the first post, to get your body used to doing 1RM again. and yes muscle fiber recruitment is controlled by the CNS.
[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
yes because your legs will have enlarged to the size of tree trunks.[/quote]
And that’ll help your leverage ;D
fighting lactic acid burn won’t get you a better 1rm.
check out hendricks article…
it doesn’t just apply to conditioning. training muscular endurance (15 reps and over) won’t help your 1RM.