[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
Bushy, or anyone else who has used Modafinil, have you experienced any agitation or increased susceptibility to annoyance or anger after multiple consecutive days using Modafinil? I have read anecdotal reports of this on many side-effect and drug efficacy forums, and I experience this myself, but I have not been able to discuss with this real time with anyone.
It seems to be rare, but it is serious enough to merit mentioning. I don’t feel like I can’t control my anger, and I actually don’t really get angry. I do find ideas or people to be more annoying than usual. With myself, and from what I’ve read, it is only after a multiple consecutive days of use. If I take it once or twice in a row I am fine.[/quote]
I never experienced that with modafinil, but I did experience more snippiness after a few months on something similar to adderall. My schedule at the time prevented me from getting an adequate quantity of sleep while the long active life reduced the quality of what I did get. As I said though it took a quite a while before it developed, it was never that bad, and it went away after a few days off and some more careful attention to my sleeping needs.
I doubt that it is FDA approved. While still legal and safe, the entire range of nootropic substances out there are used for ‘off-label’ purposes.
I found that after taking nootropics for a few months, cognitive enhancing effects still last for quite a while. If anything, you’d most probably keep the ‘gains’ because all the while, if you have been stimulating your brain with proper intellectual activity, it has been forming new neural connections, and this new mental circuitry can become ingrained by repetition and habit.
The majority of nootropics are not dependence-forming and you do not have to take them for life. Unlike antidepressants, etc, there are no withdrawal symptoms upon cessation.
[quote]Tanizaki wrote:
Reread my first post again, brain surgeon. I never said anything about anyone being hard-wired. [/quote]
You may not have said ‘hard-wired’, but the fact that you were comparing smoking-damaged lungs to drug-impaired cognitive function, draws an implied parallel between the structure of the lung and the structure of the brain. The lung is a fixed structure with multiple passageways and tubes. I was debunking your comparison. The neuronal circuits within the brain are not fixed in the same way as the bronchi and bronchioles within the lungs.
[quote]That having been said, if you were familiar with neuroplasticity, you would know that it has only been observed in the hippocampi and the olfactory area of the brain. You might have learned that if you had sources above medterms.com
[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, wooooohaaaaa. You ripped that straight from Wikipedia, I know because I found the sentence where it says that. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with a bit of plagiarism in the forum, as this is not a full-on academic environment. Everyone does it from time to time.
The only thing is, you did not comprehend the information correctly- it says “The evidence for neurogenesis is restricted to the hippocampus and olfactory bulb.” Not neuroplasticity. Ooops, huh? Somebody made a big booboo.
If you’re going to rip information off the net, at least make sure you understand what it means and get the facts straight before presenting them. It looks pretty bad when you’re trying to act of superior intellect and make a major mistake like that.
It just shows that you don’t really understand what neuroplasticity is. I just mentioned a whole paragraph, referenced to a perfectly credible source, where it says that an entire hemisphere can take on the functions of a damaged hemisphere by forming new connections through the ability of neuroplasticity, and you go and say that neuroplasticity only occurs in the hippocampus/olfactory area - mixing up the term with neurogenesis. Sorry, but that is LAME.
If neuroplasticity, the ability to adapt and change, were limited to only two areas of the entire brain, how do you think that thinking, learning and acting on novel information would even be able to occur? We’d be just like factory assembly robots, and would unable to change, or adapt to different circumstances and new environments or learn new languages.
Books? Don’t get me started on books. I’m one of those individuals who actually reads for FUN. You have no idea how many books I have read. I eat books for breakfast. When I was a kid, I used to read the encyclopaedia just for kicks.
[quote]You may wish to review, among others:
Adult neuron survival strategies - slamming on the brakes. SC Benn and CJ Woolf. (2004)
A Role for HSP27 in Sensory Neuron Survival. Lewis, Mannion, et al. (1999)
What is the functional role of adult neurogenesis in the hippocampus? Wiscott, Rasch, et al. (2004) (this one has some particularly good passages summarizing neurogenetic research in general.
Now, not all of this might be available free online. You might actually have to go to a library.[/quote]
Now, what’s the bet that you just googled for books on “neurogenesis”, or did a search on a library site with your student account and posted up a few relevant titles, to make yourself sound all superior and book-learned? I was asking for specific passages WITH the reference - not just a list of references. References are not evidence.
Anyway - As if I’d go to a library and start pulling up books, just to participate in an online debate with some random anonymous dude on the internet? I save the effort of real research for more important things. What I can find on the internet is sufficient to deal with the likes of you.
I’ve already pointed out your mistake above. Neurogenesis isn’t the only mechanism by which the brain can adapt to new stimuli or repair any damaged functions. Not just that, but neurogenesis can also occur in the caudate nucleus.
Even FURTHER more, in your first post, you criticized a man for thinking that possible deterioration of his brain cells could be repaired after marijuana use, saying that “marijuana mostly affects areas for memory formation and retention”, and that there is nothing he can do to restore it. Guess which area of the brain is responsible for memory formation and retention? The hippocampus. So now you are contradicting yourself by pointing out neurogenesis occurs there and that the brain does have reparative abilities in the area.
Research is even showing that new neurons in the hippocampus DO survive when new skills are learned. For them to be incorporated into the brain, they become connected to other neurons, and begin to receive support in the form of blood and nutrients.
I don’t know how clued on you are, but as you should be able to observe, I am not American. I am not familiar with “Quincy” or Jell-O pudding pops.
Sherlock was the first thing that came to mind, and in my opinion it fit perfectly fine. Holmes made deductions and presented them to others as elementary. That is what you have been doing here as well. Except, at least Holmes was correct with his deductions - I called you Sherlock in a tongue-in-cheek way because unlike him, the things you deduce and present as elementary facts are not correct.
The blunders you have made here on this site show that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed, no matter how intellectually superior you try to make yourself out to be. You are just a tool - in the slang sense of the word.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Anyway epitome, thanks for the input on the boosters. I used to take greentea extract, until I read that it can cause partial liver failure.
Bushy[/quote]
Where did you read this, please? Are you talking about capsules with 10,000 times a normal cup or more than 20 cups a day? Same thing?
[quote]piramyds wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Anyway epitome, thanks for the input on the boosters. I used to take greentea extract, until I read that it can cause partial liver failure.
Bushy
Where did you read this, please?
[/quote]
I must have missed reading this post. I would like to know as well. Any link to green tea? I’ll start looking myself, but wouldn’t mind a point in the right direction.
[quote]Brant_Drake wrote:
Schwarzenegger wrote:
BTW, Johnny, that was a brilliant last post.
Agreed. Wow.[/quote]
Proves what a great bunch of guys are on this thread actively supporting the ideas brought forth.
I may not be as intelligent as a lot of guys here, and certainly didn’t contribute much with my name calling, but I took offense to the personal attacks on my character which the supreme brain felt necessary to hype up his posts. Luckily for this threads’ integrity there are those who can properly defend the topics we’ve covered here.
So, after doing some quick research I’ve come across some very interesting ideas. It seems green tea is very beneficial for reducing inflammation and preventing oxidative stress, the liver included. The toxicity issues arise only with hydroalcoholic extracts of green tea, at least from what I’ve read so far. One study suggested that high doses of the extract are bad while low doses are good, sort of like too much vitamin C becomes pro-oxidative I guess. Obviously my quick review is by no means conclusive, but it certainly covers the major findings. I don’t know if green tea extract can be found in non-hydroalcoholic extracts, but green tea itself seems to be fine.
Something odd about green tea and theanine content is dose. Levels of L-Theanine vary by dose.
While green tea extract may have concerns for health, I’m not aware green tea itself does. (Haven’t looked into it at all, except in the context of Fleuride content, which… According to the USDA is moderate.
I listened to a talk show once. Someone said the fluoride goes away with boiling. I’m not sure this is true. It’s not living, so it doesn’t die. I don’t know what it’s smoke point is and a quick google search didn’t pop anything up. Maybe it evaporates? But, then, the USDA readings for 100g green tea would be 0 if it did.
Friend of mine who finished his human bio degree says there is some level of tea in natural water, anyway. But how does that level compare with the level in green tea?
USDA Fluoride level for 100g well water is 25.8mcg
For 100g black tea, made with tap water, it’s 372.9mcg Fluoride.
Municipal water, 100g of it, has 81.1mcg gluoride.
Some difference, but you gotta remember, when you drink green tea, part of that fluoride is from the tap water itself.
Arthurdevany (www.arthurdevany.com). He has one interview here. he writes about the benefits of Intermittent fasting, while not providing the detrimental sickly thin physique of someone into Caloric restriction.
The evidence on rats for caloric restriction is sound - for longevity, neurogenesis, something about ROS activity and heat shock protiens. Not sure about humans. But I throw in a light fast (skip dinner) maybe 2 times a week.
I also drink a drink or two most days of the week.
I’ve been drinking at least two gallons of tap water per day for the past many years. No problems with anything yet. Maybe it takes 20 years to kick in, but I’m not sweating the details. I did get a water filter a couple months ago, so 20 years down the road I may avoid potential problems, but I’m honestly not that worried.
[quote]epitome wrote:
I listened to a talk show once. Someone said the fluoride goes away with boiling. I’m not sure this is true. It’s not living, so it doesn’t die. I don’t know what it’s smoke point is and a quick google search didn’t pop anything up. Maybe it evaporates? But, then, the USDA readings for 100g green tea would be 0 if it did.
Friend of mine who finished his human bio degree says there is some level of tea in natural water, anyway. But how does that level compare with the level in green tea?
USDA Fluoride level for 100g well water is 25.8mcg
For 100g black tea, made with tap water, it’s 372.9mcg Fluoride.
Municipal water, 100g of it, has 81.1mcg gluoride.
Some difference, but you gotta remember, when you drink green tea, part of that fluoride is from the tap water itself.
Green tea is lower in fluoride. It also contains more theanine.
I’ll keep on drinking it.
epitome.
[/quote]
Green tea naturally has fluoride in it from absorbing the fluoride from the soil it was grown in. This means you are getting a double dose of flouride if you brew it with tap water. Each brand has a different level of fluoride. I read Lipton is the worst/has the highest levels.
Getting Fluorosis takes a while. It makes your bones brittle and your teeth yellow or mottled. I think you won’t be able to stand up straight or something. No one wants this at age 70. You want to pump iron until you drop dead. So it is best to brew your tea with bottled water unless you think the warnings are false.
Not that you can stop brushing or should brush less, but the minute the paste hits you mouth it enters the bloodstream. You don’t have to swallow it. Digestion starts in the mouth. So there’s another source. The dental community believes you need fluoride, that dosing the public water system is a good thing. I don’t know. I don’t want to be drugged by the government. Just another thing to worry about.
Thank you for visiting the Bigelow Tea website. You asked about the
fluoride content in tea.
The tea plant Camellia Sinensis, extracts fluoride from the soil, which
then accumulates in its leaves. For this reason, tea is a very rich
source of fluoride.
The dry tea leaves contain 4-400ppm of fluoride and the brewed tea
contains .34-6ppm, resulting in one cup of tea containing .3mg-.5mg of
fluoride per serving.
We hope this information is helpful. Please contact us with any further
questions you may have.
Cordially,
Kathy Perrin
Consumer Service Representative
The dry tea leaves contain 4-400ppm of fluoride and the brewed tea
contains .34-6ppm, resulting in one cup of tea containing .3mg-.5mg of
fluoride per serving.
[/quote]Wow. I’ve occasionally put the unbrewed leaves in my shakes. Sort of a green tea smoothie. Maybe I should reevaluate. That’s a big difference between leaves and brew.
[quote]JohnnyBlaze wrote:
Brant_Drake wrote:
Schwarzenegger wrote:
BTW, Johnny, that was a brilliant last post.
Agreed. Wow.
Thanks dudes, well I haven’t seen him come back to disgrace this thread, so we can continue in peace…lol
:)[/quote]
Fantastic! I see we have gotten the 5 star rating now for this thread, that's awesome! Thanks for your contributions Johnny, and I am looking forward to more great stuff. As a side note, I am looking to start on some Moda here very soon, so I will be posting how it positively effects cognition and short term recall. I'm thinking it will be profoundly positive.
That, and I ordered some more Vinpo the other day, so will be able to take it regularly, instead of just on study/school days.
What a great thread, I think we're helping a lot of people with great information here.
So happy it turned out so well. Three cheers boys!!
Just wanted to say that I took an Adderal the other day, and the difference in how I felt, thought, and acted was so profound, that I decided to do some more research into nootropic agents. I have been struggling with possible signs of depression and lack of focus for a long time, but was not sure if it was just stress, or whether it was something I needed to look at. Combine that with the fact that I am usually notoriously “anti”-anti-depressant, and the result was that I never seriously traveled down the path to cognitive enhancement.
After noticing the extreme contrast between how I normally feel and how I felt while on Adderal, I decided that perhaps my struggles with studying and social anxiety are perhaps not normal byproducts of my life, and thus I devoured this thread for information. While I have not ruled out possible evaluation and medical treatment, I will go that route as a last resort. In the meantime, I am going to research these nootropic agents thoroughly, and attempt to increase my cognitive abilities through natural means if I can. I will report back the progress.
The main point of this post, however, is to thank you guys for the awesome discussion you have been having and the great resource you have created through that discussion. Keep up the good work!
BTW, the 5 stars were a token of gratitude from yours truly. Big ups to those who shared and those who asked the questions that prompted the sharing of this information.
BTW, the 5 stars were a token of gratitude from yours truly. Big ups to those who shared and those who asked the questions that prompted the sharing of this information.[/quote]
Ok, are you a pseudo name for a big wig? I wasn't aware that regular peeps could do that. Thanks for it though, quite cool of you. I never thought it would do this well, and am quite happy with all the generous contributions that people have made. Originally it was pretty much Bushy advising me which gave me the idea to put this up here, and it just took off into the stratosphere from there.
ToneBone
