If your daily multivitamin has 2 or 3 mgs of copper you are probably ok…but yeah, they do have copper supps on americannutrition.com
Anyone ever stack Rhodiola with Spike? To be avoided or for the win?
[quote]middleageguy wrote:
by the way… that feeling you get that i explained above from caffeine… is there anyway to overcome that? is there a certain neurotransmitter that is affected, is it choline induced??
This is from an article I read:
Caffeine releases noradrenaline in the brain and also slows the rate at which the cyclic AMP is destroyed. That first cup of coffee you drink in the morning gives you a real lift. It makes you work faster and harder and more accurately and with less effort.
Yet, by the middle of the afternoon, drinking another cup of coffee may just make you space out, jittery, nervous, bad tempered. What?s going on here is pretty simple, too much caffeine depletes the brain of noradrenaline. Fortunately, you can make noradrenaline from either the essential amino acid tyrosine or the nonessential amino acid phenylalanine.
You also need the help of some essential nutrients, specifically vitamin B6, C, and the mineral copper. And a lot of people are deficient in copper; a lot of people aren?t getting the RDA of copper.[/quote]
HMMM…so supplementing with L tyrosine (4-5 g) and the others would allow me to use my ace card (caffeine) more than once a day?
Just so I can stop bugging BBB in his PM box, I will be taking the LSAT rather soon and am studying my nuts off. Just ordered vinpo and aniracetam.
I’ve also reopened my stash of creatine. I went through about a third of a container and decided I didn’t like the soft look I took on while using it, but I’m back on because of the purported cognitive benefits it confers.
I was considering Power Drive as well, however I don’t know if this would just be too much and I don’t know how many people have responded to it.
Advice?
Hey.
I have had over 10 years of heavy,constant weed smoking (i.e. every day) and my brain felt fried.
When I stopped about 5 years ago,I still noticed a considerable ‘drag factor’ in cognitive function/motor sklls/memory.
There has been a substantial amount of research with positive results on overall brain function and activity,when Ginseng is taken with Gingko Biloba.
In test,there were positive attributes from either herb,but when both were taken together,they seemed to work together and act even more powerfully.
I have been taking them both for the past 7/8 months and I can report that I personally recall information better,and seem a bit sharper,more on the ball.
[quote]Fiction wrote:
Just so I can stop bugging BBB in his PM box, I will be taking the LSAT rather soon and am studying my nuts off. Just ordered vinpo and aniracetam.
I’ve also reopened my stash of creatine. I went through about a third of a container and decided I didn’t like the soft look I took on while using it, but I’m back on because of the purported cognitive benefits it confers.
I was considering Power Drive as well, however I don’t know if this would just be too much and I don’t know how many people have responded to it.
Advice?[/quote]
Vinpo and the racetam are a good start.
Make sure your getting plenty of DHA and Vitamin D3 too boot. I like at least 2000mg of DHA and 4000IU of Vitamin d3 a day 5 days a week.
I’m hit or miss on Power Drive. Too much Tyrosine gives me anxiety.
[quote]Ace Rimmer wrote:
Hey.
I have had over 10 years of heavy,constant weed smoking (i.e. every day) and my brain felt fried.
When I stopped about 5 years ago,I still noticed a considerable ‘drag factor’ in cognitive function/motor sklls/memory.
There has been a substantial amount of research with positive results on overall brain function and activity,when Ginseng is taken with Gingko Biloba.
In test,there were positive attributes from either herb,but when both were taken together,they seemed to work together and act even more powerfully.
I have been taking them both for the past 7/8 months and I can report that I personally recall information better,and seem a bit sharper,more on the ball.[/quote]
You definitely need something to help clear Lipofuscin out.
Vinpo + DMAE would be good, natural start.
BBB could probably recommend something a little stronger, pharmaceutical grade.
Any 5 HTP users? Was thinking about tossing it in the mix maybe, something at night
[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Anyone ever stack Rhodiola with Spike? To be avoided or for the win? [/quote]
i do… but caffeine free Spike, but i do drink coffee with it. i just avoid the yohimbine (they now have a yomhimbine free Spike!)
i like its effects. dont have too much caffeine with Rhodiola tho you will be way too over stimed… like i felt like i was on meth.
[quote]Wise Guy wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Just so I can stop bugging BBB in his PM box, I will be taking the LSAT rather soon and am studying my nuts off. Just ordered vinpo and aniracetam.
I’ve also reopened my stash of creatine. I went through about a third of a container and decided I didn’t like the soft look I took on while using it, but I’m back on because of the purported cognitive benefits it confers.
I was considering Power Drive as well, however I don’t know if this would just be too much and I don’t know how many people have responded to it.
Advice?
Vinpo and the racetam are a good start.
Make sure your getting plenty of DHA and Vitamin D3 too boot. I like at least 2000mg of DHA and 4000IU of Vitamin d3 a day 5 days a week.
I’m hit or miss on Power Drive. Too much Tyrosine gives me anxiety. [/quote]
x2 with everything he said
[quote]Wise Guy wrote:
Any 5 HTP users? Was thinking about tossing it in the mix maybe, something at night[/quote]
i got horrible horrible headaches with 5HTP!
[quote]duddy wrote:
Wise Guy wrote:
Any 5 HTP users? Was thinking about tossing it in the mix maybe, something at night
i got horrible horrible headaches with 5HTP![/quote]
Bummer about the headaches. You might want to check out a different manufacturer before completely abandoning it. I recently started giving it to my wife in place of her standard SSRI (after her doctor began giving her useless & inconvenient 15 minute appointments every 4 weeks just renew her prescription) and it’s definitely working well. I only encounter the “beast” once every week or so, instead of on a daily basis. No headaches either.
cheers
[quote]duddy wrote:
Wise Guy wrote:
Any 5 HTP users? Was thinking about tossing it in the mix maybe, something at night
i got horrible horrible headaches with 5HTP![/quote]
Make sure you onlt take 50mg at a time. Any more causes blood serotonin overload
[quote]Wise Guy wrote:
duddy wrote:
Wise Guy wrote:
Any 5 HTP users? Was thinking about tossing it in the mix maybe, something at night
i got horrible horrible headaches with 5HTP!
Make sure you onlt take 50mg at a time. Any more causes blood serotonin overload[/quote]
yeah i was just taking 50 mg before bed and id wake up with a headache. its def not unheard of.
Tryptophan is actually preferable to 5-HTP. 5-HTP doesn’t cross the BBB very well, so although blood levels of serotonin are increased, very little serotonin will enter the brain. High levels of serotonin in the blood are not good.
[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
Tryptophan is actually preferable to 5-HTP. 5-HTP doesn’t cross the BBB very well, so although blood levels of serotonin are increased, very little serotonin will enter the brain. High levels of serotonin in the blood are not good. [/quote]
Here is the thing.
If tryptophan was preferable over 5 HTP, then why didn’t they use that instead of 5 HTP in Z-12?
Its not a price issue…There both dirt cheap.
There is definitely something more about 5 HTP and its advantage over L Tryptophan.
Someone help me out here.
Uggh, well, I’m not an expert but I’ll try to briefly help you out, Wise Guy. I did a quick PubMed search and while I didn’t find the one paper that I was looking for, I did find a recent review that looks at previous studies. It contains a good general overview of the relevant biochemistry.
(abstract)
(entire paper)
http://www.uoregon.edu/~ablackwe/Documents/5-HTP.Pharm.Therap.pdf
Firstly, the review offhandly mentions that 5-HTP “easily crosses the BBB” (Birdsall, 1998). It doesn’t discuss those kinetics in greater detail, nor do I believe it mentions whether Birdsall’s study used carbidopa supplementation, which IIRC, was pivotal in a more recent look into the potential for serotonin syndrome with 5-HTP use.
Anyway, also on point it reviews the two potential tryptophan conversion pathways. Increasing tryptophan concentrations itself can lead to 5-6 fold higher levels of tryptophan-2,3-dioxygenase (“TDO”), an enzyme that catalzyes the tryptophan → kynurinine conversion, an alternative pathway to the 5-HTP conversion.
Due to this TDO elevation, 5-HTP, and serotonin levels might not even rise solely in response to elevated tryptophan levels. By contrast, various studies have shown elevated serotonin levels after administration of 5-HTP alone or 5-HTP + tryptophan.
Take this review fwiw… a starting point in looking at the relevant biochemistry. It’s easy to argue that many of the original studies are less than 100% convincing based on the usual suspects: animal research != human research, small populations involved, poor controls, differing concentrations of compounds administered etc…
cheers
Tryptophan isn’t great either. Even if/once they do get converted to serotonin in the brain, the half life of serotonin is short. If either 5-HTP or tryptophan had a significant effect, they would probably be much more popular in the pharmaceutical industry.
One way to increase the effects of 5-HTP or tryptophan would be to use an MAO inhibitor, as MAO is the reason the serotonin is broken down so fast.
SSRIs work too, but it’s pretty easy to get a bit of serotonin syndrome. I actually did combine the two once, and relaxation or tranquility were definitely not words I would use to decribe the feeling haha.
As far as why 5-HTP is in Z-12 rather than tryptophan, well the only thing I can think of is that tryptophan is banned in Canada. Another reason could be marketing. Most people have heard of tryptophan. Not as many have heard of 5-HTP, and probably think it is a more high-tech ingredient.
As a side note, if you are looking for relaxation, why even use 5HTP or tryptophan? GABA is a better target than serotonin. L-theanine is good, as well as phenibut (in Z-12).
I only took 5-HTP for a short time (about 7 yrs ago), and it FUCKED UP MY WORLD. I had a massive anxiety attack on this stuff. I’ve never had one like it before or after. I will never touch the shit again. . .
Peace,
Ditto that for 5-HTP, I have written about my experience with it before in this thread…