[quote]duddy wrote:
i was actually talking about vinpo doing that me. ive never taken gotu…[/quote]
Well, that’s not good news. I was hoping that if I dropped the ‘Thinkwell’ formula and just took vinpo I wouldn’t have that problem anymore.
I think a lot of people/places are recommending extended use of piracetam, but I’ve heard some guys just taking it occasionally. It’s pretty cheap and when I get mine I plan on taking it every day.
Where do you guys get your choline? Is ‘choline citrate’ what I need for choline supplementation, and is this something whose dosage I have to play with?
Do I have to take it WITH the choline-depleting noops or build up choline for a few days before releasing them via a noop / noop stack?
How much of choline and how much of a B-Complex should I be supplementing with as a starting dosage?
Secondary question…and this may not be entirely relevant to the thread, but I am hoping because of the amount of knowledge among all of you that someone might have a theory.
I do not respond to caffeine, certainly not the stimulation. I do get jitters - if I take, say, 2 Spike tabs on an empty stomach - but no more of the energy rush I used to get a few years back.
I did abuse energy drinks for about a 6 month period (2-3 cans a day, 2-3 days a week) a few years ago, but since them have all but stopped. I might have a can once every few weeks and that’s only because I am used to the taste.
Coffee does not really wire me either.
Can anyone figure out why?
I believe I read somewhere that this has to do with a ‘phase 1’ or ‘phase 2’ enzymatic process in the liver, but I cannot find that literature for the life of me. I’ve just always been baffled by this…
I don’t agree with not seeing piracetam effects right away, at least in my experiences. I felt it day 1 and that’s for damn sure. As far as it getting stronger over time, I’m not sure, maybe. It didn’t seem to lose effect after daily use. I went through a bottle in a month last month and then ran out for a few weeks while I waited for more.
During those few weeks I very anxiously awaited the day I would have more piracetam again. Sort of like an addiction, not really troublesome, but it’s just that I was on such a roll academically that when I stopped use I just wanted to get back on it. It is like adderall but without the penis shriveling, the heart thumping and a it doesn’t turn you into an emotionless zombie.
Well I’m back on for a few days now and just finished my 20 page grant for class. Next up is my presentation for the other class. =P
As far as taking it every day it depends on what you do really. If your daily life requires you to be at 100% top mental performance, then yea probably take it all the time. Also it hasn’t seemed to effect my workouts much, whereas with adderall I definitely lose a little strength. I think it is mostly due to the fact that on speed I eat virtually nothing, but I always found it hard to manage working out hard with the adderall buzz. As comparator, even something like pot doesn’t hurt my workouts as much as adderall.
As far as using caffeine for an “energy rush,” I wouldn’t take caffeine and expect that so much. Caffeine keeps me awake and running for the most part, I wouldn’t expect it to be “the greatest workout aid in the world” or anything.
I’ve been using Vinpocetine for a week now
One thing I have noticed is that conversation seems to flow easier. I can’t really explain it, other than the speed in which my brain thinks of what to say, and sends that signal as a word and my mouth spits it out, seems ramped up.
Its like word recall or something. It seems like word thought process is slightly sped up.
I’ve only been using 10mg a day. Time to up the dose. See what happens.
[quote]Rusty Barbell wrote:
whereas with adderall I definitely lose a little strength. I think it is mostly due to the fact that on speed I eat virtually nothing, [/quote]
Yup, that exact same problem happened to my friend on adderall. She noticed a big drop in appetite. She also said she felt slightly weaker in exercise things she does, like hiking/jogging. She doesn’t have much knowledge on the subject, so I kindly explained to her that a drop in calories will effect performance.
A way around that is to get used to eating a big breakfast. Generally, in the A.M pre-adderall you can still scarf down some heavy foods.
Also, might want to up the carb intake, thats usually golden for speeding up appetite later in the day.
[quote]forkknifespoon wrote:
duddy wrote:
i was actually talking about vinpo doing that me. ive never taken gotu…
Well, that’s not good news. I was hoping that if I dropped the ‘Thinkwell’ formula and just took vinpo I wouldn’t have that problem anymore.
I think a lot of people/places are recommending extended use of piracetam, but I’ve heard some guys just taking it occasionally. It’s pretty cheap and when I get mine I plan on taking it every day.[/quote]
i think it was mostly from being a low carb plus the vinpo… you know how that goes. im fine now that i have some carbs.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Adderal is a catecholamine (well. strongly stimulates the release of catacholamines in the body) which means that no matter how many calories you intake, your muscles will be receiving a catabolic signal, causing them to break down tissue, leaving you weaker.
BBB[/quote]
Wow, thats interesting.
Thats also scary, given how many kids take adderal. A grown adult is one thing, but a 10 year old is another
[quote]Rusty Barbell wrote:
I don’t agree with not seeing piracetam effects right away, at least in my experiences. I felt it day 1 and that’s for damn sure. As far as it getting stronger over time, I’m not sure, maybe.
It didn’t seem to lose effect after daily use. I went through a bottle in a month last month and then ran out for a few weeks while I waited for more.
During those few weeks I very anxiously awaited the day I would have more piracetam again. Sort of like an addiction, not really troublesome, but it’s just that I was on such a roll academically that when I stopped use I just wanted to get back on it.
It is like adderall but without the penis shriveling, the heart thumping and a it doesn’t turn you into an emotionless zombie.
Well I’m back on for a few days now and just finished my 20 page grant for class. Next up is my presentation for the other class. =P
As far as taking it every day it depends on what you do really. If your daily life requires you to be at 100% top mental performance, then yea probably take it all the time. Also it hasn’t seemed to effect my workouts much, whereas with adderall I definitely lose a little strength.
I think it is mostly due to the fact that on speed I eat virtually nothing, but I always found it hard to manage working out hard with the adderall buzz. As comparator, even something like pot doesn’t hurt my workouts as much as adderall.
As far as using caffeine for an “energy rush,” I wouldn’t take caffeine and expect that so much. Caffeine keeps me awake and running for the most part, I wouldn’t expect it to be “the greatest workout aid in the world” or anything. [/quote]
was it physically addicting or just mentaly addicting? could you tell a difference when you stopped, like was your mental performance less then it started at with without the pira?
My opinion has been that adderall is something just about no one should be taking on a daily basis… it is a pretty serious substance.
I didn’t know about the muscle effects though. I had suspected something about it though. It’s funny because the adderall pumps you up and occasionally you will get a good workout on it, but most of the times I noticed I wouldn’t and would kind of be weaker in my lifts.
This makes me question about people using stims in general for sports enhancement. I know baseball players were into amphetamines particularly. I wonder if anyone’s performance was ever effected negatively by their use?
A few notes about Neurotransmitters.
LEF has some very interesting things to say about neurotransmitters.
Just because we cannot test for them, doesn’t mean we cannot make assumptions about levels.
Neuro’s are similar to testosterone in that, in the even of aging, or some sort of pathology, levels drop.
In a sense, the brain becomes hypo-neuro, meaning levels of neurotransmitters decline, just like the testes production of T declines as well.
We do not necessarily need to test for levels because symptoms of low levels are usually evident. We can make safe assumptions about neurotransmitter levels based on symptoms, behaviors, etc.
In LEF’s disease prevention handbook (I recommend you all to get, and read), they have some excellent things to say about cognitive behavior, and specifically, ADD and ADD like behavior.
What is interesting is how common behaviors are associated with low T. And guess what? There are common behaviors that are associated with low Neurotransmitters. There is some evidence that people with ADHD do not produce adequate quantities of certain neurotransmitters, among them dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Some experts theorize that such deficiencies lead to self-stimulatory behaviors that can increase brain levels of these chemicals
There may also be some structural and functional abnormalities in the brain itself in children who have ADHD. Evidence suggests that there may be fewer connections between nerve cells. This would further impair neural communication already impeded by decreased neurotransmitter levels. Evidence from functional studies in patients with ADHD demonstrates decreased blood flow to those areas of the brain in which �??executive function,�?? including impulse control, is based. There may also be a deficit in the amount of myelin (insulating material) produced by brain cells in children with ADHD
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
My own thoughts are that MPH/ritalin etc use is nothing more than a ‘chemical cosh’ to control the disruptive behaviour of children who are the product of incompetent parenting.
BBB[/quote]
While I agree that the current procedures to treat hyperactive children/disruptive children is akin to killing an ant with a sledgehammer, I am of the opinion that something is up with every child born as the years pass.
We touched on this subject briefly about the “aquatic ape” theory.
I think a lack of essential phytonutrients, and omega 3 fatty acids, in the diet, is just as much if not more to blame than bad parenting.
Remember, most parents don’t even know what a fatty acid is.
And so the question becomes “Will you make your children take fish oil?” =P
i do agree with you bushy when it comes to the idea of social control. But this idea that handing kids stimulants to improve their social behavior seems wrong to me. If the only problem was poor parenting then i am sure these kids would actually behave worse on stimulants. shit i do!
Has anyone tried adderall? What were your experiences?