[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Ok boys, just thought I’d put up a general informative breakdown of some of our nootropics for everyone to enjoy. Cheers gang!
…
ToneBone[/quote]
Thanks for doing that - great summarised resource.
[quote]gswork wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
Ok boys, just thought I’d put up a general informative breakdown of some of our nootropics for everyone to enjoy. Cheers gang!
…
ToneBone
Thanks for doing that - great summarised resource.
[/quote]
Thought it would be appropriate.
thanks,
TBN
Ok so I did a bit of bacopa this morning, the powder tastes like crap, but I wasn’t expecting my taste buds to be happy. I took 700mg(150mg active). It seems to have taken my edge off a bit, but the true test will come today when I’m watching the Bears game 
I’m going to dose another 700mg later in the day.
This is one of the best threads on this site. I can’t say “thanks” enough for bringing this information to the front. I ordered oxiractem, piracetam, and centrophenoxine about a month ago and have been using it daily. I suspect that my body and brain didn’t really know what the hell to do with this stuff suddenly being ingested. It seemed that my mind had trouble dealing with the sudden increase in stimulation on that scale. I just started two new college classes, plus was in an Army course already for over a month learning some more advanced skills. The first several days were mostly spent dealing with the intake of information, and then sleeping for hours on end. I do have to say that the sleep improvement was very welcome. The dreams are nice and vivid! After that initial trouble, I have noticed a much increased ability to remember and recall information, as well as improving clarity as time passes. I wake feeling more alert, and more motivated. Thanks again, everyone, for this info!
I been reading around on the racetams and I have seen a few recommendations about taking a choline supplement with the 'tams. Something to do with depleting “endogenous acetylcholine levels”
Opinions?
Anyone going to try intermittent fasting?
Much easier if you shy away from carbs - don’t get as much of a low.
It’s free!!! If you need any encouragement.
epitome.
[quote]epitome wrote:
Anyone going to try intermittent fasting?
Much easier if you shy away from carbs - don’t get as much of a low.
It’s free!!! If you need any encouragement.
epitome.[/quote]
I was looking into that but could only get a limited amount of help from exile swede on running it at difft times etc. He turned me on to the one guy who charges for setting it up etc, but I'm not able to afford that and would rather wait for it to get out from someone like you. Since then I've just been carb cycling pretty much between moderate days around the workout and one to two meals after, and zero save for fruits/veggies on non wkout days. It's working pretty nicely, but I would probably try the IF if I had a better breakdown of it later. I workout at 5:00am. now too.
ToneBone
Dear Bushy
I am sorry this took so long to post after our pming!
One of my hunches to improve my hormone levels before going to eg HCG, is to make sure my brain segments are working fine. ie start there and then work down to the machinery in the bod. So this thread interests me to find any method to turn on switches in the brain etc…
So when I saw that Vinpro improves brain circulation, I thought it was worth a go with Vinpro to see if anything useful happened.
After 3 days of Vinpro (10mg tab am and 10 mg tab pm), suddenly on the third day I got a bit nervous as I peed 1.8 kg of weight over 12 hours ( about 100ml per pee more or less on the hour). Normal pee since that day, so that “phase” is over and all seems fine.
I can’t say that Vinpro did any of it… but as my brain is 58 years old who knows… it may only be a false connection that might exist in my head but it is worth noting …
Whatever the reason, I am not so bloated now! thanks for everything
I just started taking Vinpro today and I feel clearer than I did yesterday but it could be random. I felt like there was slightly less static in my head. Hopefully I will continue to notice an effect.
I want to try Modafinil. Where are you ordering from?
Well I was unsuccessful in getting a modafinil prescription today. I have very bad daytime fatigue, and the modafinil was helping a lot, but the doctor was mad that I ordered online. She also has never heard modafinil, so she said she couldn’t prescribe it even after looking it up in her drug book. She referred me to a psychiatrist, and I’m guessing he will prescribe ritalin. There is still a chance I will get the modafinil if I come back with positive results from a sleep test. Man, I hate having my life controlled by other people!
Does anyone know of any stimulants besides caffiene that will help keep me up? I can’t have any caffiene at all because I get way to jittery. This is pretty much the most important week of studying for the semester, since finals are next week, and I haven’t been getting much done with 12 hours/day sleep spread out through naps.
[quote]
Does anyone know of any stimulants besides caffiene that will help keep me up? I can’t have any caffiene at all because I get way to jittery. This is pretty much the most important week of studying for the semester, since finals are next week, and I haven’t been getting much done with 12 hours/day sleep spread out through naps. [/quote]
Anyone else out there experiment with benfotiamine? It’s a fat soluble and easily absorbed form of B-1, similar to that found in Spike. 160mgs with morning coffee seems to help, but I just started so it may be placebo here…
One of the first things that clued me onto intermittent fasting was a seminar at my school by James Joseph. He’s the blueberry and brain neurogenesis/improved performance athletic and mental/in rats. He was talking about a bunch of stuff related - antioxidents in different fruits and veggies, colour and antioxidents, inflammation, oxidation…
Mentioned some far out stuff like potential for future nanotechnolegy in life extension, but he identified it as far out and more of an optimism for year and years and years down the road.
He mentioned caloric restriction as a life extension measure and I think incorporated it into inflammation and oxidization. Can’t recall. I have some notes, but the stuff on caloric restriction is up in my head, not on paper.
Anyways, I’m not convinced that caloric restriction is great. He is not at all frail or gaunt looking like I understand the caloric restriction guys are, so I’m not sure how into it he is. But I saw him once, maybe 4 years ago.
I tried the warrior diet one summer - eating only at night. I think it’s a peice of shit diet lol. At least I stuck with it for a few months, though. Dedicated. Would fast after my nightly feeding period and into the day, maybe go to class and whatnot or work. Then eat dinner and then some.
There was something in the intermittent fasting from my experience on the diet, but the diet itself was shit.
I’ve tried a lot of diets - anabolic, warrior, zone, low carb, high carb, 8 times eating a day, evolutionary fitness.
Only thing I can say about all of them is I feel best on generally low carb high fat diets. I glob extra virgin olive oil on things, and organic butter (wish I had grass fed). I eat a diet high in seafood low in mercury - wild salmon, sardines, shrimp, sometimes herring. So I get a lot of fat from wild organic seafood lol.
But no matter what I am eating, diet-wise, I have found intermittent fasting to have benefits in many ways.
For one, it gives me a willpower edge. There is something pleasant about the fast but at another level, it’s a fucking pain. And I catch myself thinking about food - I quell the thought and concentrate on other things. Schoolwork, or an activit, the sights and sounds around me.
Basically, I can’t look to food to make me feel good when I’m bored - so I do my best to pass the time playing around with my own internal monologue - stopping thoughts I don’t want in their tracks and focusing on things in thier stead. I think of it as willpower - the will toying around with thoughts to get a job done. The willpower you use to hack it and even feel good when fasting carries over into other areas.
Just like if you can lift a heavy weight, something near your max, or do something intense that involves some amount of will - this carries over into other areas.
Another thing, though, is that my head actually feels clearer and it’s consistent. I wouldn’t put it up to placebo as I never had the hope of this from trying intermittent fasting. I never expected to get this out of it. Placebo is more along the lines of power of belief and your own beleif in something taking effect on you. if you expect a pill to make you irritated, it will via placebo effect. If you expect a pill to make you able to concentrate, it will via placebo. You expect nothing, you will have a smaller placebo effect.
I like to do one about every 2-5 days. I go by feel. I know enough from experience doing an intermittent fast that I could use one or not. Not some magic shit lol. Just a feel of how I am in mental state and recalling the feeling of having done a fast. If there is an incongruency - time to fast.
So I will skip dinner one night and eat meals before then. Or skip breakfast and lunch. Just add up to about 14-18 hours or so in fasting time, once every few days.
Fasting, when you do higher carbs, though, fucks you up a bit. I don’t care about the science of it, that’s just my experience. If I were to look to the science, though, I’d look to blood glucose levels.
So for you, I would cut down carbs except in postworkout period. Increase fat intake to compensate for lower caloric intake.
But I’m not a doctor, just to be clear lol. Just what i’d do if I were you and considering to try it out.
Just want to add - on days you aren’t doing a fast - overeat. make up for the calories.
Here are some links:
www.arthurdevany.com/2005/05/intermittent_fa.html
www.arthurdevany.com/2006/12/intermittent_fa_2.html
www.arthurdevany.com/2006/04/from_chris_h_co.html
www.arthurdevany.com/2005/08/intermittent_ea.html
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002670.html
http://www.google.com/custom?domains=futurepundit.com&q=fasting&sa=Google+Search&sitesearch=futurepundit.com&client=pub-4535238118664477&forid=1&channel=8879374218&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A008888%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en
THat’s the google search for that site and fasting. Some good comments there.
Those links contain a mix of studies and experiences. Most of them are done on animals, unfortunately… yet I myself put some faith in them for human application. You’ll note that much of the benefit from caloric restriction is gained from episodic/intermittent fasting while making up for calories when not fasting and I wouldn’t recommend caloric restriction.
One other point to add is that arthurdevany says that intermittnet fasting increases insulin sensitivity in the brain, so it allows the brain to be nourished, where insulin insensitive tissue rejects things that would otherwise be deposited there via insulin. So sugars and I suppose vitamins. Not clear on this last part.
One last thing is that intermittent fasting and being on vinpocetine is fine.
epitome.
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
epitome wrote:
Anyone going to try intermittent fasting?
Much easier if you shy away from carbs - don’t get as much of a low.
It’s free!!! If you need any encouragement.
epitome.
I was looking into that but could only get a limited amount of help from exile swede on running it at difft times etc. He turned me on to the one guy who charges for setting it up etc, but I'm not able to afford that and would rather wait for it to get out from someone like you. Since then I've just been carb cycling pretty much between moderate days around the workout and one to two meals after, and zero save for fruits/veggies on non wkout days. It's working pretty nicely, but I would probably try the IF if I had a better breakdown of it later. I workout at 5:00am. now too.
ToneBone[/quote]
[quote]epitome wrote:
One of the first things that clued me onto intermittent fasting was a seminar at my school by James Joseph. He’s the blueberry and brain neurogenesis/improved performance athletic and mental/in rats. He was talking about a bunch of stuff related - antioxidents in different fruits and veggies, colour and antioxidents, inflammation, oxidation…
Mentioned some far out stuff like potential for future nanotechnolegy in life extension, but he identified it as far out and more of an optimism for year and years and years down the road.
He mentioned caloric restriction as a life extension measure and I think incorporated it into inflammation and oxidization. Can’t recall. I have some notes, but the stuff on caloric restriction is up in my head, not on paper.
Anyways, I’m not convinced that caloric restriction is great. He is not at all frail or gaunt looking like I understand the caloric restriction guys are, so I’m not sure how into it he is. But I saw him once, maybe 4 years ago.
I tried the warrior diet one summer - eating only at night. I think it’s a peice of shit diet lol. At least I stuck with it for a few months, though. Dedicated. Would fast after my nightly feeding period and into the day, maybe go to class and whatnot or work. Then eat dinner and then some.
There was something in the intermittent fasting from my experience on the diet, but the diet itself was shit.
I’ve tried a lot of diets - anabolic, warrior, zone, low carb, high carb, 8 times eating a day, evolutionary fitness.
Only thing I can say about all of them is I feel best on generally low carb high fat diets. I glob extra virgin olive oil on things, and organic butter (wish I had grass fed). I eat a diet high in seafood low in mercury - wild salmon, sardines, shrimp, sometimes herring. So I get a lot of fat from wild organic seafood lol.
But no matter what I am eating, diet-wise, I have found intermittent fasting to have benefits in many ways.
For one, it gives me a willpower edge. There is something pleasant about the fast but at another level, it’s a fucking pain. And I catch myself thinking about food - I quell the thought and concentrate on other things. Schoolwork, or an activit, the sights and sounds around me.
Basically, I can’t look to food to make me feel good when I’m bored - so I do my best to pass the time playing around with my own internal monologue - stopping thoughts I don’t want in their tracks and focusing on things in thier stead. I think of it as willpower - the will toying around with thoughts to get a job done. The willpower you use to hack it and even feel good when fasting carries over into other areas.
Just like if you can lift a heavy weight, something near your max, or do something intense that involves some amount of will - this carries over into other areas.
Another thing, though, is that my head actually feels clearer and it’s consistent. I wouldn’t put it up to placebo as I never had the hope of this from trying intermittent fasting. I never expected to get this out of it. Placebo is more along the lines of power of belief and your own beleif in something taking effect on you. if you expect a pill to make you irritated, it will via placebo effect. If you expect a pill to make you able to concentrate, it will via placebo. You expect nothing, you will have a smaller placebo effect.
I like to do one about every 2-5 days. I go by feel. I know enough from experience doing an intermittent fast that I could use one or not. Not some magic shit lol. Just a feel of how I am in mental state and recalling the feeling of having done a fast. If there is an incongruency - time to fast.
So I will skip dinner one night and eat meals before then. Or skip breakfast and lunch. Just add up to about 14-18 hours or so in fasting time, once every few days.
Fasting, when you do higher carbs, though, fucks you up a bit. I don’t care about the science of it, that’s just my experience. If I were to look to the science, though, I’d look to blood glucose levels.
So for you, I would cut down carbs except in postworkout period. Increase fat intake to compensate for lower caloric intake.
But I’m not a doctor, just to be clear lol. Just what i’d do if I were you and considering to try it out.
Just want to add - on days you aren’t doing a fast - overeat. make up for the calories.
Here are some links:
www.arthurdevany.com/2005/05/intermittent_fa.html
www.arthurdevany.com/2006/12/intermittent_fa_2.html
www.arthurdevany.com/2006/04/from_chris_h_co.html
www.arthurdevany.com/2005/08/intermittent_ea.html
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002670.html
http://www.google.com/custom?domains=futurepundit.com&q=fasting&sa=Google+Search&sitesearch=futurepundit.com&client=pub-4535238118664477&forid=1&channel=8879374218&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A008888%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en
THat’s the google search for that site and fasting. Some good comments there.
Those links contain a mix of studies and experiences. Most of them are done on animals, unfortunately… yet I myself put some faith in them for human application. You’ll note that much of the benefit from caloric restriction is gained from episodic/intermittent fasting while making up for calories when not fasting and I wouldn’t recommend caloric restriction.
One other point to add is that arthurdevany says that intermittnet fasting increases insulin sensitivity in the brain, so it allows the brain to be nourished, where insulin insensitive tissue rejects things that would otherwise be deposited there via insulin. So sugars and I suppose vitamins. Not clear on this last part.
One last thing is that intermittent fasting and being on vinpocetine is fine.
epitome.
InTheZone wrote:
epitome wrote:
Anyone going to try intermittent fasting?
Much easier if you shy away from carbs - don’t get as much of a low.
It’s free!!! If you need any encouragement.
epitome.
I was looking into that but could only get a limited amount of help from exile swede on running it at difft times etc. He turned me on to the one guy who charges for setting it up etc, but I'm not able to afford that and would rather wait for it to get out from someone like you. Since then I've just been carb cycling pretty much between moderate days around the workout and one to two meals after, and zero save for fruits/veggies on non wkout days. It's working pretty nicely, but I would probably try the IF if I had a better breakdown of it later. I workout at 5:00am. now too.
ToneBone
[/quote]
Thanks E, yeah, I have looked at Devaney's stuff, and it was a good read. I am already doing low carb ala the AD but with fast carb intake around the wkout.
I get up early, eat a couple pieces of toast or fruit, coffee, small amount of protein, wkout, post wkout drink, waxy maize(40g)with BCAA’s(15g),creatine(7g), then 20-30 minutes later I slam a whey isolate/malto shake and then have a rather moderate sized mix of protein fast gi starch, then that’s it for starchy carbs.
The rest of the day is pro/veggie/fats. 15gfish oil.
My thinking on the IF approach I was going to take was to do a 15-19 hour fast after the eating part of the day, but this was when I was working out later in the day and would have allowed for some carb intake before bed, which I thought would improve the situation in some respects,(sleepiness etc.)
Now I'm just plugging away like this, and not sure if I'll implement it any time soon or not..
thanks for the input,
ToneBone
Dear Bushy,…
I really like the way you are juggling possibilities here…
" Well I’m very glad it’s working out for you.Perhaps the increased cerebral blood flow allowed correct regulation of ADH (anti-diuretic hormone) from the pituitary which allowed your body to ‘release’ some of the extra water you were holding. If that was the case, then I don’t see why optimisation of other pituitary hormones might not occur…"
Wait till you see my T and free levels now. I am just waiting for some thoughts from KSAMN to see if it is likely that there is an assay interference…
j
Man, I just read through 17 pages of thread in 3 days.
Very useful… I’ve tried most, if not all of the things you guys have mentioned here. I got most of my info form Imminst.org.
One thing that I didn’t see mentioned here about piracetam & aniracetam was the greater “appreciation” for music. I have no other way to describe it more, other than that music becomes more enjoyable.
Busy, I’m slightly suprised that vasopressin didn’t work for you. As far as I’ve read, all vasopressin that is used for cognative enhancement is sold as desmopressin. Have you used again with better results?
If anyone is going for a group buy of an ampakine, keep me in mind…
[quote]T Ham wrote:
Man, I just read through 17 pages of thread in 3 days.
Very useful… I’ve tried most, if not all of the things you guys have mentioned here. I got most of my info form Imminst.org.
One thing that I didn’t see mentioned here about piracetam & aniracetam was the greater “appreciation” for music. I have no other way to describe it more, other than that music becomes more enjoyable.
Busy, I’m slightly suprised that vasopressin didn’t work for you. As far as I’ve read, all vasopressin that is used for cognative enhancement is sold as desmopressin. Have you used again with better results?
If anyone is going for a group buy of an ampakine, keep me in mind…[/quote]
does the music appreciation apply to oxiracetam too? Because right around the time I started taking that, I started listening to Opeth. Since then, I’m thoroughly convinced that they are the best band I have ever heard. I would be sorely disappointed if my enjoyment of their music was being artificially stimulated by one of the things I’m taking. It would detract from my faith in their position as the greatest band alive.
Well, I have felt this effect with piracetam, and aniracetam, but I haven’t tried oxiracetam. I have read this effect extends to all/most *racetams though.
It isn’t a huge effect (I don’t know if it would make one band better than another), but it is cool + interesting none the less.
Thanks for the great thread guys. It has been a really good read. I hope the research continues in this open and informative fashion.
I am very interested in Moda, as it seems to be exactly what I need in a “stimulant”. I have never been a big fan of ritalin, caffeine (in large doses), amphetamines, or ephedrine, because of their jittery effects. I’ve always been kind of a “jumpy” guy, so the aforementioned substances don’t usually help me when I need a helping lift to get me through the day.
I also have a touch of depression. excercise helps greatly for this, but some days it is not enough. I have read that Moda has been used off label along with an anti-depressant to much success.
On another related note, here are some other trade names for Moda from all over the world. Maybe this will help in the search?
Lifted from Wiki:
Provigil (US, UK, Italy, Belgium)
Vigil (Germany)
Modalert, Provake, Modapro, Modafil (India)
Modiodal (France, Mexico, Turkey, Greece, Sweden, Denmark, Portugal)
Modavigil (Australia)
Alertec (Canada)
Vigicer (Argentina)
Resotyl, Mentix, Alertex, Zalux (Chile)
Modasomil (Austria, Switzerland)
I’ll go back to lurking in my usual forums now.
HAPPY HUNTING 