Brain Function Boosters

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Dave_ wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Also, since intaking choline citrate, I have noticed that my heart muscle contractions are much more forceful, especially in the gym.

My heart rate doesn’t increase that much during training (even though I’m limiting rest to 20-45 seconds between agonist/antagonist supersets), but I can really feel my heart muscle contracting.

I’m fairly certain that this is simply due to increased levels of acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter at the motor endplate, facilitating more efficient nerve/muscle interface (I’m stronger in my skeletal muscle as well - plus I do not fatigue as easily in terms of reps).

However, I’m not sure if more forcefull heart muscle contraction is a good thing, since it may force hypertrophic/hyperplasic adaptations in the cardiac muscle tissue itself, especially since I’m on AAS and GH currently.

Thoughts?

Bushy

I think that obese people who develop large hearts just because of their weight are screwed, because they don’t have the same adaptations as an athlete. We on the other hand have a system that we’ve built to cope with increased cardiac demand - greater coronary perfusion and a far more effective skeletal-muscle pump.

I was “diagnosed” with moderate cardiomegaly about a year ago, and the cardiologist I ended up seeing said that in her experience (she was 50+) it was rarely an issue except in athletes who suddenly stopped training. The dickhead intern I saw before her had tried to get me on ACE inhibitors (I’m 21 btw).

A rapid loss of CV adaptations with irreversible cardiac hyperplasia can’t be good news. Otherwise I can’t see why it would be a problem in a trained person, even if it’s “helped along” by various drugs.

Just my thoughts…

Dave

Ah, but research has shown that the combo of AAS and GH can lead to permanent increases in ventricle wall muscle thickness.

This means that since the walls are thicker, there is less capacity in the ventricle to hold blood. so the heart must beat faster for the same cardiac output level.

Ah well, I’ll be stepping up my cardio come the springtime, and last year when I had my HR taken ‘properly’, it was 54 beat/min.

Lowest ever recorded HR (for me) was observed on my heart rate monitor, whilst having a snooze, 30minutes prior to my second skydive! It was 44bpm.

The body and mind makes for a wonderfully interesting combnination, lol.

Bushy[/quote]

But, exercise provides beneficial cardiac enlargement involving both hypertrophy and dilation of the heart. Exercise is the only trigger I know of which causes dilation in a positive way.

I can see why the GH would be an issue, but surely AAS would just speed up the development of “athlete’s heart” (which is reversible)?

If the GH is the only problem I guess the simple answer is, don’t take GH? I know bugger all about GH - but is it actually GH itself which causes the cardiac hypertrophy or is it one/all of the subsequent IGF MGF etc?

Dave

[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
I knew that taking ativan while studying would effect the memory storage, but would you say that the article suggests it effects memory recall too?

I won’t take the ativan or nicotine before a test again either way. Unfortunately, have to take ativan to study too, or else I get too anxious to concentrate!

On a side note, I got my mark back for that test, and I got 73%, so better than I thought I got. [/quote]

I take pregnenolone and theanine together to help me stay calm and focused when I really need it. Worth a try. I tried DHEA before but it makes me really agitated.

Thanks JB. Ya, the memory impairment with alcohol is especially severe. I usually pop an ativan before I go to the bar, because then I drink quite a bit less, but I remember NOTHING. Some of the stuff my friends say I’ve said is just insane haha.

Middleageguy:

Personally, I would stay away from pregnenolone. Especially if I was using it all the time, I would be worried about too much estrogen production. I will look into the theanine though.

[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
Thanks JB. Ya, the memory impairment with alcohol is especially severe. I usually pop an ativan before I go to the bar, because then I drink quite a bit less, but I remember NOTHING. Some of the stuff my friends say I’ve said is just insane haha.

Middleageguy:

Personally, I would stay away from pregnenolone. Especially if I was using it all the time, I would be worried about too much estrogen production. I will look into the theanine though. [/quote]

Yeah, as I said earlier, 5 or 10mgs pregnenolone is a small amount, once or twice a week if and when I really need it seems to do the trick with minimal risk.

Phew, now my exams are over I’ve dropped the nicotine and even the Spike (for now).

Interestingly, even with 2 weeks at 8-12mg ED of nicotine, I’ve had no trouble coming off - I was preparing to wean myself off it, but there’s no need it seems.

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
Phew, now my exams are over I’ve dropped the nicotine and even the Spike (for now).

Interestingly, even with 2 weeks at 8-12mg ED of nicotine, I’ve had no trouble coming off - I was preparing to wean myself off it, but there’s no need it seems. [/quote]

Physical addiction takes much longer to develop than the DARE people will tell you, even with the most physically addictive drugs. Nicotine isn’t fun enough to be strongly psychologically addictive either.

On a side note, there are a few drugs in trials right now for cognitive impairment and/or ADD that are modeled on nicotine.

[quote]etaco wrote:
Dave_ wrote:
Phew, now my exams are over I’ve dropped the nicotine and even the Spike (for now).

Interestingly, even with 2 weeks at 8-12mg ED of nicotine, I’ve had no trouble coming off - I was preparing to wean myself off it, but there’s no need it seems.

Physical addiction takes much longer to develop than the DARE people will tell you, even with the most physically addictive drugs. Nicotine isn’t fun enough to be strongly psychologically addictive either.

On a side note, there are a few drugs in trials right now for cognitive impairment and/or ADD that are modeled on nicotine.[/quote]

Well I must admit, I found nicotine far more effective than nicotine, studying-wise. I’d like to find a bulk supplier in the uk because it’s pretty expensive in the shops.

[quote]Dave_ wrote:

Well I must admit, I found nicotine far more effective than nicotine, studying-wise. I’d like to find a bulk supplier in the uk because it’s pretty expensive in the shops.

[/quote]

When I was in college I would sometimes take up smoking around finals. My friends got me into the hand rolled stuff which added a dimension of relaxation to the process. It’s too dirty, mentally and physically, to do now that I have better options.

I’ve fooled around with most of the things in this thread and for me most of these substances are ineffective at best and reduce function at worst. There are a few which seem to be circumstantial, meaning that sometimes they reduce function and sometimes they provide a slight boost. Then there are the substances which almost always work, the stimulants.

Nicotine was mildly effective for me, but a bit of a “dirty” rush and it could only be used occasionally before tolerance set in. Come to think of it, Spike was fairly similar. Methylphenidate was very effective in the short term, but I didn’t like the time released versions I tried and I found the shorter duration version difficult to tolerate for long-term use. Modafinal is a good mild stimulant for general use and I’m a fan of it for many purposes, but it doesn’t have enough kick for my add without copious quantities of caffeine on the side. Incidentally, caffeine makes me drowsy without another stimulant present.

Currently I’m on a time released form of dexidrine and I’m quite happy with it. It provides slightly less focus than methylphenidate does at its best but the energy and drive levels are quite solid and side effects are minimal. That said, I’m still a greedy SOB and I want more… Not of DA/NE boosting stimulants mind you, since I’m quite happy where I am in that department, but in cognitive enhancement otherwise.

Since this has turned into a general review, I’ll mention a few other things and my personal experiences.

The Ach boosters haven’t been too impressive for me in general, though I’m not sure what I was expecting given that they’re claimed to improve recall and that’s already my strong suit.
DMAE and centrophenoxin tend to make me drowsy most of the time, although I’ve had a few episodes on the centro in which I had above normal focus levels. Perhaps they were coincidental or perhaps my brain had a particular need during those moments.

Aniracetam is in a similar situation as centro, though somewhat better. Sometimes it makes me feel hazy, sometimes it makes me feel smarter. It’s doing something, but I’m not always sure what and it’s quite unpredictable which reduces its utility.

Vinpocitine doesn’t hurt and may help slightly. I have a mildly favorable view of it.

Hydergine makes me a little hazy and a little stimulated. Whether it has long term effects positive or negative I can’t say.

Tyrosine and NAT on an empty stomach do seem to have a positive impact on certain specific occasions and it/they don’t have any negatives, so I do like using one or both regularly.

Deprenyl wasn’t bad and it potentiated modafinil slightly but it wasn’t spectacular either. If I weren’t taking other stuff that counterindicates it I would probably be taking it now, albeit at a low dose.

I’ve tried some others but I’ll have to look around to see what they are. Most of the items were given a reasonable amount of time to show their stuff before I came to my sort-of-provisional conclusions and most were not taken concurrently. I feel like quite the crack addict with this list, especially since it’s incomplete. I had a chemistry set as a little kid but I guess I graduated from pyrex to in vivo experimentation.

I’m somewhat less enthusiastic about this field (nootropics) than before but I’m intensely interested some of the pharmas in the pipeline. The ampakines in particular look quite intriguing and I’m quite eager to get my hands on some from that class. For my chemistry set of course.

[quote]etaco wrote:
Dave_ wrote:

Well I must admit, I found nicotine far more effective than nicotine, studying-wise. I’d like to find a bulk supplier in the uk because it’s pretty expensive in the shops.

When I was in college I would sometimes take up smoking around finals. My friends got me into the hand rolled stuff which added a dimension of relaxation to the process. It’s too dirty, mentally and physically, to do now that I have better options.

I’ve fooled around with most of the things in this thread and for me most of these substances are ineffective at best and reduce function at worst. There are a few which seem to be circumstantial, meaning that sometimes they reduce function and sometimes they provide a slight boost. Then there are the substances which almost always work, the stimulants.

Nicotine was mildly effective for me, but a bit of a “dirty” rush and it could only be used occasionally before tolerance set in. Come to think of it, Spike was fairly similar. Methylphenidate was very effective in the short term, but I didn’t like the time released versions I tried and I found the shorter duration version difficult to tolerate for long-term use. Modafinal is a good mild stimulant for general use and I’m a fan of it for many purposes, but it doesn’t have enough kick for my add without copious quantities of caffeine on the side. Incidentally, caffeine makes me drowsy without another stimulant present.

Currently I’m on a time released form of dexidrine and I’m quite happy with it. It provides slightly less focus than methylphenidate does at its best but the energy and drive levels are quite solid and side effects are minimal. That said, I’m still a greedy SOB and I want more… Not of DA/NE boosting stimulants mind you, since I’m quite happy where I am in that department, but in cognitive enhancement otherwise.

Since this has turned into a general review, I’ll mention a few other things and my personal experiences.

The Ach boosters haven’t been too impressive for me in general, though I’m not sure what I was expecting given that they’re claimed to improve recall and that’s already my strong suit.
DMAE and centrophenoxin tend to make me drowsy most of the time, although I’ve had a few episodes on the centro in which I had above normal focus levels. Perhaps they were coincidental or perhaps my brain had a particular need during those moments.

Aniracetam is in a similar situation as centro, though somewhat better. Sometimes it makes me feel hazy, sometimes it makes me feel smarter. It’s doing something, but I’m not always sure what and it’s quite unpredictable which reduces its utility.

Vinpocitine doesn’t hurt and may help slightly. I have a mildly favorable view of it.

Hydergine makes me a little hazy and a little stimulated. Whether it has long term effects positive or negative I can’t say.

Tyrosine and NAT on an empty stomach do seem to have a positive impact on certain specific occasions and it/they don’t have any negatives, so I do like using one or both regularly.

Deprenyl wasn’t bad and it potentiated modafinil slightly but it wasn’t spectacular either. If I weren’t taking other stuff that counterindicates it I would probably be taking it now, albeit at a low dose.

I’ve tried some others but I’ll have to look around to see what they are. Most of the items were given a reasonable amount of time to show their stuff before I came to my sort-of-provisional conclusions and most were not taken concurrently. I feel like quite the crack addict with this list, especially since it’s incomplete. I had a chemistry set as a little kid but I guess I graduated from pyrex to in vivo experimentation.

I’m somewhat less enthusiastic about this field (nootropics) than before but I’m intensely interested some of the pharmas in the pipeline. The ampakines in particular look quite intriguing and I’m quite eager to get my hands on some from that class. For my chemistry set of course.[/quote]

       No offense etaco, but certainly your experiences will differ from folks who don't have ADD.

 I think a good portion of the nootropics we've discussed here have had postitive feedback from the majority of the folks kickin around over here.

    Nonetheless, your posts provide some good feedback with regards to how they've helped or hindered you.

                 ToneBone

Hey all, I got some Aniracetam in the mail, and it came in a powder form :frowning:

This sucks cause it taste like crap. I have mixed it with my whey shakes, but it gives them a bad medicine taste that I can not stand. I don’t know of anything else I can mix it with to neutralize this as I mostly drink Water, tea, and Whey shakes. Maybe tea or coffee?

Any suggestions on how to take this stuff better? I need to take 750mg twice daily from what I have read.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Believe me when I say that I too have punished my brain in the past, with excessive enjoyment of recs.

When I stared the chiro course 3 years ago, I was 30, not particularly academic, and languishing at the middle-bottom of the class.

Now, 3 years and some judicious use of nootropics later, I’m in the top 10% of the class.

I blame it on the drugs :wink:

Bushy[/quote]

lol.

Bushy what do you think of a younger chap taking drugs to improve his academic performence?

I mean i’m in the top 20 percent at the moment(which isn’t brilliant of course), to be honest I have only recently started to seriously work hard and ignore all the partying that happens in the first year.

Warm regards :wink:

Shire, I’d imagine that’s the best time to use them. Most of the guys here are currently in school, and some of them, myself included, are relatively young.

Got my bacopa and phenibut powder in the mail today. Woo!

I’m anxious to try the bacopa but since me and the GF are doing a gram of phenibut tonight I don’t want the effects overlapping or being unable to distinguish what effects I’m getting from what substance.

So unfortunately I have to wait a couple days to try the bacopa, but I’ll let you guys know how they go

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Got my bacopa and phenibut powder in the mail today. Woo!

I’m anxious to try the bacopa but since me and the GF are doing a gram of phenibut tonight I don’t want the effects overlapping or being unable to distinguish what effects I’m getting from what substance.

So unfortunately I have to wait a couple days to try the bacopa, but I’ll let you guys know how they go[/quote]

     Great bro. That phenibut looked appealing to me when I was checking it out. Please do let us know how it goes.

                 TBN

I add the aniracetam to a table spoon of olive oil, stir it in until soluble and then add 1/4 glass of orange juice…it works great for me, only a slight bitter taste.

So me and my girlfriend each dosed 1 gram of phenibut last night. I felt some mild mellowing effects about one and a half hour in. Just a calming effect, like kicking back in the chair “ahhhhhh”. I also slept very deeply. My girlfriend claims she felt nothing from it.

In conclusion, I feel it was worth the buy. For the price and and amount I copped I’m not disappointed. I’ll only be using it maybe once or twice a week as most people say the body will build up a tolerance to it extremely quickly.

I’ll be giving the bacopa a whirl on Sunday, looking forward to that!

Where are you guys getting your Bacopa monnieri? I usually order from BN, and I prefer things already capped. But BN only has the “Planetary Formulas Bacopa Extract” in caps.

According to the to the PhysicianFormulas.com store, (which sells the same stuff) the contents of the caps is

"Bacopa Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: 2 Tablets
Serving Per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving:
Calcium - 100 mg - 10%DV
Bacopa Whole Plant Extract - 450 mg *
(Bacopa monnieri 20% bacosides A+B"

Can anyone confirm if this is comparable to the BN “Bacopa Monnieri (20%) Powder” ?

thanks

     Ok boys, just thought I'd put up a general informative breakdown of some of our nootropics for everyone to enjoy. Cheers gang!

The Top Smart Drugs & Nutrients:

The following are the safest and most widely appreciated substances for improving your mental function.

Acetyl-L-Carnitine:
Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALC) is a naturally occurring amino acid and found in small quantities in milk. Because it is a common factor in many areas of the body it has a wide diversity of effects. These include benefits for depression, stroke, neuronal protection and the enhancement of the action of the mitochondria. Many of the theories of aging center on the reduction in efficiency of the mitochondria; ALC’s ability to support their function and prevent their decline is an obvious “anti-aging” benefit. ALC also increases brain cell metabolism and has been shown to improve memory, reaction time, and other cognitive functions. Dosage: 500 - 2000 mg daily

DHEA:
Dehydroepiandrosterone (pronounced dee-hi-dro-ep-i-an-dro-stair-own) or abbreviated to DHEA, is a steroid hormone produced naturally by the adrenal gland, and is the most abundant steroid found in the human blood stream. Research indicates that DHEA has significant anti obesity, anti cancer, cognitive enhancement and anti aging effects. DHEA levels naturally decline as we get older, and there is strong reason to think that DHEA supplements may extend life span and make us more youthful. Dosage: Women 10 - 25 mg daily, Men 25 - 50 mg daily

Ginkgo Biloba:
A great deal has been said about ginkgo since we introduced it in Smart Drugs & Nutrients. This supplement improves many brain functions including memory, attention, and concentration. It is also particularly good for ringing in the ears, dizziness, and general balance especially in the elderly. Dosage: 60 - 240 mg daily

Phosphatidylserine: (PS)
PS is food for your brain cell membranes. Much of your brain’s cell membranes are made up of PS and, with supplementation, you may see improvements in a wide variety of cognitive functions that tend to decline with age such as: memory, learning, concentration, general mood, and alertness. PS is also particularly effective at reducing the ill effects of stress and helps keep cortisol levels down (important for long term anti-aging purposes.) Dosage: start at 200 - 300 mg for one month, then taper down to 100 mg per day

Pregnenolone:
Pregnenolone may be one of the most effective, broad ranged and yet one of the safest anti-aging therapies at our disposal today. With its decades of safe and efficacious clinical use, the scope of treatments have included, alleviating stress, improving and extending energy levels, reducing arthritic inflammations, enhancing memory and acting as an antidepressant. The reason that pregnenolone can have such different uses is because it is the first sterone derived from cholesterol.

In fact it is the grandmother of all the steroids and neuro-steroids, it forms their basic material (it is a precursor). Without plentiful pregnenolone availability there is likely to be an “imbalance” of other steroids. For example estrogen, testosterone, progesterone and DHEA are all “sourced” from pregnenolone. Dosage: 10 - 100 mg daily

Vinpocetine:
Vinpocetine is a new addition to the latest class of “smart nutrients,” a class which has a specific effects on the chemical reactions that go on inside cells, to invigorate the brain and make it work normally. Vinpocetine, when taken regularly allows the brain to make better use of oxygen and energy. The brain accounts for only 2% of total body weight, however it receives between 15% to 20% of the blood, in order to enable it to receive energy from the sugar glucose. The brain only has small reserves of energy, and they can be expended within 2 to 3 minutes, if they have to be used. This means that proper brain function depends upon good blood flow, oxygen and glucose supply. Dosage: 5mg 2-3x daily

Smart Drugs

Deprenyl:
Deprenyl is currently the most promising therapy in the struggle against aging. Deprenyl is sold in the United States under the trade name of Eldepryl. Recent studies have shown that Deprenyl has a variety of beneficial effects on brain aging, without producing any toxic side effects. There is much evidence to suggest that Deprenyl is an antidepressant, a sexual stimulant, an effective treatment for Parkinson’s disease and a useful treatment for Alzheimer’s disease, as well as an anti-aging therapy.

Hydergine: (Ergoloid Mesylates)
Hydergine is considered to be one of the most important “smart drugs” available today. This is because it acts in a number of different ways to enhance mental capabilities and slows or regresses the aging processes in the brain. Hydergine is the brand name of the group of drugs known as Ergoloid Mesylates, and is widely regarded, as the best form available. Dosage: 3 - 9 mg daily

Modafinil:
Modafinil is an eugeroic drug, (which simply means “good arousal”). This unique class contains only two at present, adrafinil and modafinil, both of which have been developed by Lafon Laboratories of France. Currently, their use and effectiveness is little known outside of Europe. The basis of their uniqueness lies in their ability to only “stimulate when stimulation is required.” As a result the “highs and lows” associated with other stimulants such as amphetamine are absent with eugeroics. Their initial use often produces comments such as “I can’t tell any difference.” But it is only several hours later when one realizes that attention and awakeness are the same as earlier, that one is aware of their benefit. Dosage: 100 - 200 mg daily

Piracetam:
Piracetam is an intelligence booster, and CNS (central nervous system) stimulant with no known toxicity or addictive properties. Piracetam has been described by many people as a drug that “wakes up your brain”. Piracetam’s effect and safety have been so impressive, that it created a new classification of drugs called Nootropics. The term Nootropic is Greek and means “acting on the mind.” Since the creation of Piracetam, many pharmaceutical companies have been very busy developing further Nootropic drugs, such as Oxiracetam. Currently there are no FDA approved Nootropic drugs in the United States. If approval is gained the market for Nootropic drugs in the US alone is expected to be in excess of $1 billion a year (22). In the meantime, Piracetam can be ordered from European and Offshore pharmacies. Dosage: 2400 - 4800 mg daily

Centrophenoxine:
Centrophenoxine is an anti-aging drug widely used in Europe to increase brain energy. Centrophenoxine stimulates chemical activity of the brain, in particular the uptake of the sugar glucose is increased. Glucose is essential for energy production; oxygen consumption and carbon dioxide production also increase significantly when Centrophenoxine is taken regularly. Centrophenoxine has also been found to be very effective in the treatment of various human disorders, such as brain damage due to old age, stroke, brain injury caused by chemicals or drugs including excessive alcohol consumption. Centrophenoxine has the ability to protect against the damage caused by modern toxic environmental chemicals. Dosage: 250 1 or 2x daily

Human Growth Hormone: (HGH)
Human growth hormone (abbreviated to hGH) is a natural hormone, and levels have been shown to decrease as we age. hGH supplements have been described as the ultimate anti-aging therapy, with one scientific report concluding that hGH supplements were “equivalent in magnitude to (reversing) changes incurred during a 10 to 20 year period of aging.” Dosage: blood monitoring required - check with your physician.

       Hope you like that. I found an online source for some Moda generic equivalent also. 

Prices:
100mg tabs-quantity-30-$40.00
200mg tabs-quantity-30-$48.00
60-$86.40

                  ciao fellas,
                  ToneBone