lol…I’d be PISSED if I spent 4 g’s on corn flour!!!
My stack; Vinpocetene, Centrophenoxine, Aniracetam.
I might have to take a drug test for a new job(next week). Should I(or will they) be concerned with this stuff in my bloodstream?
Thanks.
Anyone know of a decent scientific scale for a reasonable price? I’m in college atm, so it’s a little hard for me to shell out for a real nice one. I’m itching to try some moda, but the dosing seems too small to just “wing it”. Plus, it’s expensive I don’t wanna end up using more than I actually need.
The $4000 per kilo was particular to one company I believe. At the dosages the guy was using that comes out to around $2.60 per day. Brand-name modafinil runs ~$10 p/d by comparison. Even at higher dosages the price isn’t that bad on a per unit basis. It’s just that initial outlay to get those prices.
I agree on the issue of needing to ensure that the chem supply company is reliable. Perhaps if a trusted research chem retailer which already had established relationships with chem houses were to make it available for other researchers to study?
Regardless though, if one person was organizing and distributing purchase then the cost of having the batch analyzed could be spread cheaply over the group purchasing. The trust factor is one of the biggest obstacles.
Has anyone here used Alpha-GPC?
I have 50% Alpa GPC and last night I tried some for the first time. I did 500mg and within 20 minutes I was extremely tired, I needed to take a half hour nap and for the rest of the night I was still groggy.
Man guys, I just got RAPED on a stats midterm.
I took 200mg moda and studied all day before it. I felt like the man. I was getting every single practise question done perfect. So I walk for 15 minutes to class, sit down, and suddenly I don’t have a clue what to do.
I did get a cigerette off my roommate, and took 1mg ativan to ease the nervousness. I don’t see how that could have made me forget everything though.
I was going back through the old Spike thread and Tim Patterson mentioned something against using modafinil:
[quote]"nephorm wrote:
One more question… many modafanil users report a feeling of calm, but intense, motivation and the desire to get work done. Should I expect the same from Spike?
I have a great feeling about this supplement, thanks for bringing it to us!
Tim Patterson wrote:
Unfortunately, modafinil only imparts that effect the first few doses. In fact, after the first month, users often have a paradoxical tired feeling.
Spike, on the other hand, will actually work BETTER, the more you use it. You’ll sometimes find that effect with certain nootropic agents – Spike is one that has that attribute." [/quote]
Has anyone experienced the tired thing? Or would this possibly be from users taking it in place of sleep and thus becoming burnt out?
I feel tired with any stimulant (Spike and moda included) if the dosage is below a certain threshold. Thanks to this and the inevitability of some degree of tolerance forming with regular use, I can see how one might percieve negative effects after a period “on” when really it’s just necessary to either take some time off to lower tolerance or up the dose.
[quote]BIGZEUS wrote:
I was going back through the old Spike thread and Tim Patterson mentioned something against using modafinil:
"nephorm wrote:
One more question… many modafanil users report a feeling of calm, but intense, motivation and the desire to get work done. Should I expect the same from Spike?
I have a great feeling about this supplement, thanks for bringing it to us!
Tim Patterson wrote:
Unfortunately, modafinil only imparts that effect the first few doses. In fact, after the first month, users often have a paradoxical tired feeling.
Spike, on the other hand, will actually work BETTER, the more you use it. You’ll sometimes find that effect with certain nootropic agents – Spike is one that has that attribute."
Has anyone experienced the tired thing? Or would this possibly be from users taking it in place of sleep and thus becoming burnt out?
[/quote]
My impression is also that TP was basically plugging Spike. Of course you’re going to promote your product and say that it is superior to something else.
I haven’t tried Spike nor Moda, so I can’t give any opinions on comparing the two in terms of performance or paradoxical tiredness.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Also, since intaking choline citrate, I have noticed that my heart muscle contractions are much more forceful, especially in the gym.
My heart rate doesn’t increase that much during training (even though I’m limiting rest to 20-45 seconds between agonist/antagonist supersets), but I can really feel my heart muscle contracting.
I’m fairly certain that this is simply due to increased levels of acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter at the motor endplate, facilitating more efficient nerve/muscle interface (I’m stronger in my skeletal muscle as well - plus I do not fatigue as easily in terms of reps).
However, I’m not sure if more forcefull heart muscle contraction is a good thing, since it may force hypertrophic/hyperplasic adaptations in the cardiac muscle tissue itself, especially since I’m on AAS and GH currently.
Thoughts?
Bushy[/quote]
I think that obese people who develop large hearts just because of their weight are screwed, because they don’t have the same adaptations as an athlete. We on the other hand have a system that we’ve built to cope with increased cardiac demand - greater coronary perfusion and a far more effective skeletal-muscle pump.
I was “diagnosed” with moderate cardiomegaly about a year ago, and the cardiologist I ended up seeing said that in her experience (she was 50+) it was rarely an issue except in athletes who suddenly stopped training. The dickhead intern I saw before her had tried to get me on ACE inhibitors (I’m 21 btw).
A rapid loss of CV adaptations with irreversible cardiac hyperplasia can’t be good news. Otherwise I can’t see why it would be a problem in a trained person, even if it’s “helped along” by various drugs.
Just my thoughts…
Dave
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Also, since intaking choline citrate, I have noticed that my heart muscle contractions are much more forceful, especially in the gym.
My heart rate doesn’t increase that much during training (even though I’m limiting rest to 20-45 seconds between agonist/antagonist supersets), but I can really feel my heart muscle contracting.
I’m fairly certain that this is simply due to increased levels of acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter at the motor endplate, facilitating more efficient nerve/muscle interface (I’m stronger in my skeletal muscle as well - plus I do not fatigue as easily in terms of reps).
However, I’m not sure if more forcefull heart muscle contraction is a good thing, since it may force hypertrophic/hyperplasic adaptations in the cardiac muscle tissue itself, especially since I’m on AAS and GH currently.
Thoughts?
Bushy[/quote]
I also seem sensitive to choline products. 500mgs per day makes my heart pound and raises my blood pressure, I especially feel this at night. If I take 50mcgs huperzine without any choline containing products I don’t have any problems.
[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
Man guys, I just got RAPED on a stats midterm.
I took 200mg moda and studied all day before it. I felt like the man. I was getting every single practise question done perfect. So I walk for 15 minutes to class, sit down, and suddenly I don’t have a clue what to do.
I did get a cigerette off my roommate, and took 1mg ativan to ease the nervousness. I don’t see how that could have made me forget everything though. [/quote]
I read that lorezepam can cause confusion and amnesia. Maybe you were really sensitive to it. Years ago I tried to combat anxiety with Kava and it only slowed my brain down and caused mental confusion at work.
Right now 5 or 10mgs of pregnelonone seems to help me, but I only take it a couple of times a week when I really need it in a stressfull situation where I really need to be at my best. I always take it with vinpocetine and huperzine, these I pretty much take every day.
[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
Man guys, I just got RAPED on a stats midterm.
I took 200mg moda and studied all day before it. I felt like the man. I was getting every single practise question done perfect. So I walk for 15 minutes to class, sit down, and suddenly I don’t have a clue what to do.
I did get a cigerette off my roommate, and took 1mg ativan to ease the nervousness. I don’t see how that could have made me forget everything though. [/quote]
Hey Thomas,
Sounds like a case of performance anxiety compounded by drug interaction. I think there were a number of factors at work here.
Here is my analysis:
Nicotine is known to increase anxiety, and Ativan is designed to counter anxiety. Two antagonistic drugs, combined with a stimulant, plus stress…NOT a good mix for high pressure brain work.
Here is the main factor -
It was the lorazepam (Ativan) that raped your brain of memory. As was mentioned above, it is known to cause amnesia. Here is some information I pulled up on it:
Cognitive Side Effects of Ativan
Memory functioning is markedly and measurably impaired, especially the ability to store acquired knowledge into long-term memory. This memory impairment is highly relevant to students. The risk of acute amnesia is more pronounced with short-acting drugs. Ativan (Lorazepam), Halcion (triazolam), Xanax (Alprazolam) and Rohypnol (flunitrazepam) are especially likely to induce such memory impairment.
Thus, Ativan is not a nootropic and counterproductive for things like exams.
While under stress, it would have made things worse - this what happens in cases of anxiety - fight or flight syndrome. You were ready to ‘fight’ but couldn’t take ‘flight’ because you had to do the exam, so this internal conflict basically cancelled everything out and further helped to shut down your higher thinking centres.
You should have stuck to just the nicotine and Modafinil. You can still perform while under anxiety. I have found that with exams, it is just the anticipation and initial anxiety that gets you all worked up. But once you turn the paper over and begin working on it, you start getting absorbed in the questions and generally the anxiety subsides because your brain is getting focused.
I knew that taking ativan while studying would effect the memory storage, but would you say that the article suggests it effects memory recall too?
I won’t take the ativan or nicotine before a test again either way. Unfortunately, have to take ativan to study too, or else I get too anxious to concentrate!
On a side note, I got my mark back for that test, and I got 73%, so better than I thought I got.
Well, 73% is still a Credit so you didn’t do bad at all. Phew! I’d be relieved to hear that news.
I’d say that lorazepam does affect memory recall. Here is some data I quickly Googled up that suggests it has a negative effect on recall:
To assess the influence of lorazepam on memory and behavioural learning, a non-clinical sample of undergraduate psychology students (n = 24), received lorazepam (2.5 mg) or placebo orally. Pre-drug and post-drug neuropsychological assessment comprised the Rey auditory verbal learning test, verbal fluency test, digit span and word stem completion. Relative to placebo, lorazepam induced a marked deficit in delayed free-recall, perceptual priming, and written word fluency, with preservation of digit span. accelerated-learning-online.com
Lorazepam has been repeatedly shown to induce memory impairments. The effects of this benzodiazepine on the processes involved in the strategic regulation of memory accuracy have not as yet been explored. An experimental procedure that delineates the role of monitoring and control processes was used. Fifteen lorazepam and 15 placebo subjects were examined using a semantic memory task that combined both a forced- and a free-report option and a no-incentive and an incentive condition. Memory accuracy was lower in the lorazepam than in the placebo group. Lorazepam impaired control sensitivity (the extent to which volunteering of answers is affected by the confidence judgments). While the absolute aspect of monitoring was impaired (calibration scores), both the discriminative aspect (the ability to distinguish between correct and incorrect answers) and the response criterion setting (the confidence threshold set for volunteering a report) were spared. The pharmacological dissociation between monitoring effectiveness and control sensitivity indicates that these two components involve distinct processes. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WD0-45CWPXM-8&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F31%2F2002&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=f76451e1a73ff6f6e054fe18632b691d
This placebo-controlled, double-blind, double-dummy, independent groups study directly compared effects of the benzodiazepine, lorazepam (2.0 mg/70 kg orally administered), and the anticholinergic scopolamine (0.6 mg/70 kg subcutaneously administered) on memory and attentional measures hypothesized to differentiate the drugs. At the studied doses, lorazepam and scopolamine produced similar decrements in psychomotor performance, free recall, and overall sensitivity in distinguishing between studied and nonstudied items on a recognition memory test. However, the drugs differed with respect to effects on working memory, response bias, metacognition, subjective awareness, and selective attention. In addition to providing information about the cognitive psychopharmacological profiles of drugs with distinct neurochemical and pharmacological mechanisms of action, this study also informs the understanding of memory and attentional processes. Lorazepam ( Ativan) versus scopolamine : effects on memory and attention
This one involves lorazepam and alcohol combined but is still significant:
Free recall of words has been extensively used in psychopharmacology to assess the effects of CNS-active drugs on memory functions. However, there is a relative lack of information on the impact of word frequency on the subsequent recall of words following the administration of psychoactive drugs. The present double-blind, placebo-controlled, repeated-measures experiment used lorazepam and alcohol to test the effects of word frequency on immediate and delayed word recall in 24 healthy volunteers. One half of the words contained in the lists had a high frequency (HF) of occurrence and the remainder were of low frequency (LF). The results showed that LF words were more sensitive to memory impairment than HF words. However, the more accurate recall of HF words (with respect to LF words) was eliminated when a combination of lorazepam with alcohol was administered. These findings indicate that word frequency has a significant impact on memory and, as such, is a factor to be taken into account when using memory recall tasks to assess the effects of psychoactive drugs on memory. http://www.springerlink.com/content/85fn7q96l8nv7vh7/