[quote]wfifer wrote:
Just got a script today for Provigil (modafinil)! Will hopefully be getting it filled early enough tomorrow to take it, then I’ll share my thoughts…it seems like not a lot of people here have experience with this class of noops. [/quote]
I took Provigil for a year. I had brain surgery in '07, and I needed to regulate my sleep/wake cycles in order to return to work. I was only able to stay awake for about 4 hours, then fall asleep for about one hour or so, just to have this pattern change at random. I also thought it would function as a brain function booster to help me concentrate better.
It did help me adjust to my former circadian rhythm. Provigil has been described as promoting a “gentle wakefullness.” It was so gentle, I initially decided it was rubbish, but I was able to stay awake longer and sleep more than an hour at a time, after using it for a month or so. It doesn’t have the “feel” of amphetamines, ie. no speedy rush or euphoria, loss of appetite or inability to sleep. So if you’re looking to have fun with Provigil, forget about it.
As far as helping me to concentrate at work, I noticed no improvement. However, I am an experienced drug user with a long history, so I don’t notice small increments of improvement. My neurotransmitter receptors burned out long ago, never to return.
I am sure your sensitivities are in a much better state than mine, so your experience will be different. Looking forward to hearing about it.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I am leery of calling modafinil a ‘nootropic’ in the same way that I am wary of calling adderal a nootropic.
Although they both provide energy, focus and motivation, it’s in a ‘forced’ way not a natural way IMO.
I guess they don’t actually improve brain function, but seem like they are, simply by ‘turning up the dials’ so to speak.
BBB
EDIT: Congrats on the script though :~)[/quote]
You know, I almost didn’t call it that because I had a feeling someone would point it out! I just find that it’s commonly referred to as a “smart drug” (regardless of whether it is or not). I know here we’re a little more critical about whether something is actually enhancing brain function directly.
Well, today I woke myself up, went down to the drug store, got my hair cut while I waited, and returned only to find that there was a problem with my insurance. I probably gave my doc the wrong card, arrghhghgh! I wanted to give it a test run before Saturday when I have to wake up at 8. Probably not early for most of you but my sleep phase is usually 4am to 1pm. And I’m foggy all day, probably because my sleep habits are an aberration of nature. So I’ll gladly take an indirect boost in brain function!
I’m sensitive as hell to stimulants right now, so I’m hopeful. I used to use the old Spike to get me going in the morning, lately it’s been Redline but I crash HARD with that one.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I am leery of calling modafinil a ‘nootropic’ in the same way that I am wary of calling adderal a nootropic.
Although they both provide energy, focus and motivation, it’s in a ‘forced’ way not a natural way IMO.
I guess they don’t actually improve brain function, but seem like they are, simply by ‘turning up the dials’ so to speak.
BBB
EDIT: Congrats on the script though :~)[/quote]
No doubt about it Bushy.
Adderall definitely is a dopamine agonist, that is fore sure though. Amphetamines work, LOL.
The times I have used adderall, like to cram down a bunch of work (I know, dirty method, but it too works, albeit not as well), and its usually only 10mg.
I interestingly have found Tyrosine to be a perfect sister to adderall. Seems to be a nice combo when I sparingly use addy.
About 3g or so to really crank up its effects. I just use Power Drive.
Is it possible to take your choline and racetam’s at different times but still have synergy? Been taking 500mg Alpha-GPC in the morning, and want to add 640mg ani in the afternoon. Ani is still giving me a brain fog. I have a decent amount of it so I will get it to work damn it!
I may just be weird, but every time I take Piracetam, no matter what dosage, my face seems to get puffy and sometimes and I’ll even had a red flush going on.
I may just be weird, but every time I take Piracetam, no matter what dosage, my face seems to get puffy and sometimes and I’ll even had a red flush going on.
Does anyone why this is?[/quote]
Yeah, I gave some pira to a friend to try and he said he took 2 caps and got a niacin-like flush. I am curious also, anybody got a theory?
Quick question, apologies if it has been answered before (I read 70% of the first thread, 60% of the second, that’s a big effort in itself IMO);
First, I heard that racetams act by acting upon glutamate receptors (or whatnot), which then subsequently excite choline release for acetylcholine production. (If this is wrong, my question is moot)
I have also heard, regarding Monosodium Glutamate in particular, that glutamate can ‘over-excite’ neurons which will subsequently lead to their destruction. I have heard this from not-so-good sources though.
My question, assuming the above two premises are correct, is where lies the threshold for stimulation/destruction of neurons regarding glutamate excitation? Would there also be a way to ‘safeguard’ against possible neuronal destruction (With Vinpo, ALCAR, Vitamin E, etc.)?
I can’t say I know what the threshold is, but I imagine that a couple solutions would be to firstly, block NMDA receptors with antagonists (Ketamine, anyone? lol) before glutamate binds with these receptors - so that would prevent the glutamate killing off neurons.
Secondly, in the process of excitotoxicity you get a lot of free radicals as a result and these are part of what causes the damage to the neurons. So you would want something to take care of the free radicals that are present before they cause too much damage. I imagine some vitamins (I’d have to check which ones exactly) would help, or maybe even some vinpocetine.
All the more reason to make it part of a stack.
I believe that MSG is bad for exactly this reason, so I would primary be looking for something to rid your brain and body of free radicals.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
I can’t say I know what the threshold is, but I imagine that a couple solutions would be to firstly, block NMDA receptors with antagonists (Ketamine, anyone? lol) before glutamate binds with these receptors - so that would prevent the glutamate killing off neurons.
Secondly, in the process of excitotoxicity you get a lot of free radicals as a result and these are part of what causes the damage to the neurons. So you would want something to take care of the free radicals that are present before they cause too much damage. I imagine some vitamins (I’d have to check which ones exactly) would help, or maybe even some vinpocetine.
All the more reason to make it part of a stack.
I believe that MSG is bad for exactly this reason, so I would primary be looking for something to rid your brain and body of free radicals.[/quote]
Thanks for this, and many thanks to Bushido as well for the replies.
Also, I have read that MSG can actually block neurons from communicating with each other (human neurons, in vitro), I remember I was jealous as hell since an assistant conducting the experiment was 16 at the time, same age I was. (Intellectual jealously is the worst)
However, does MSG readily cross the blood-brain barrier? All the studies I have read have been in vitro, backed up by anecdotes of some people leaving a chinese food place buzzed, or tired, its never really consistent.
[quote]silverhydra wrote:
Quick question, apologies if it has been answered before (I read 70% of the first thread, 60% of the second, that’s a big effort in itself IMO);
First, I heard that racetams act by acting upon glutamate receptors (or whatnot), which then subsequently excite choline release for acetylcholine production. (If this is wrong, my question is moot)
I have also heard, regarding Monosodium Glutamate in particular, that glutamate can ‘over-excite’ neurons which will subsequently lead to their destruction. I have heard this from not-so-good sources though.
My question, assuming the above two premises are correct, is where lies the threshold for stimulation/destruction of neurons regarding glutamate excitation? Would there also be a way to ‘safeguard’ against possible neuronal destruction (With Vinpo, ALCAR, Vitamin E, etc.)?[/quote]
Summary at the bottom.
I assume you’re referencing this?
As I understand it racetams bind to the AMPA receptor but part of their activity is to simulate cholinergic receptors that are near the AMPA in addition to activating other sites.
With regards to Ani:
“…suggesting an involvement of nicotinic acetylcholine, 5-HT2A and dopamine D2 receptors in the anxiolytic mechanism.”
Point is, AMPA isn’t the only site of action and I don’t believe they excite it enough for it to be an issue.
Another point, does MSG bother you? If not then you’re probably fine. I believe MSG has an especially strong affinity for the receptors (AMPA) and what I gathered from my research regarding exitotoxity it really has to be a large dose in a single instance or closely packed instances to really cause problems.
I got the impression that a little extra gentle, regular stimulation shouldn’t be a problem (I mean your body does it every single day of your life).
Not to mention, I’ve taken enough high doses of racetams for long enough that I would have surely noticed any mental degeneration, all I can say is that I feel smarter, if anything.
As far as prevention goes, one of the culprits is intracellular damage from oxidative stress. If it IS actually an issue about the only thing you could do would be to superdose anti-oxidants so long as the antioxidants were small enough or lipophillic enough to cross the BBB. But it’s really kind of like putting a band-aid on a shotgun wound as such high levels of Calcium initiate all sorts of other processes leading to cell death.
Cliff’s Notes:
I don’t know for sure.
No one really knows.
I don’t think so.
If it does cause problems, not much you can do (EDIT: see below post, I just pulled a spaz move and omitted one of the best bang for your buck neuroprotective agents out there).
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I feel that I understated vinpos abilities as a reperfusion injury (oxidative stress) amelioration agent.
It is sometimes given (via i.v. infusion) to stroke victims, to prevent cellular death of those areas on the borderline between dead and still ‘alive’ but likely to be killed as soon as oxygenated blood is returned to the area.
So yes, vinpocetine would be the goto supplement if you are concerned about excito-toxicity.
BBB[/quote]
I was just reloading to post the same thing when I saw yours.
I haven’t seen any evidence for piracetam functioning by a direct interaction with the AMPA receptor, if anyone has a source I would love to see it. However what I have seen some data for is the mechanism of action being related to its ability to enhance or strore membrane fluidity by binding to polar phospholipid head groups on outer cell membranes. Hence downstream effects on other systems like AMPA/NMDA that reside on the cell surface can be seen because the behavior of their enclosing membrane has been altered by the piracetam.
This would also help explain piracetam’s general ability to enhance the action of many other neuroactive aubstances.
In the end, BBB you are confused because you are unaware that DMAE also stands for DopaMine AgonistE. Duh!
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Sorry what? DMAE boosts choline synthesis and bromo is a dopamine agonist. How do you equate the two?
I’m confused.
BBB[/quote]
Well, it was because bromo stimulates the PNS, since it is dopamine based. I just read that statement “Bromo as a strong DMAE” in another site, so i just wandered why it would be.
In any case DMAE, by boosting the choline synthesis is also PNS based?
Now, have someone used bromo? Does it have any uses as a brain booster?
I’ve been taking bromo 3 days so far, 5mg in the morning. I haven’t experienced any (bad) sides.
But, i have to say, that i do have experienced some good things. ( for the record, i’m dieting now).
Morning erections, haven’t disapeared at all. When i diet, it usually goes away after the first week.
*I keep feeling “kinda” horny. My libido is normal-low when i’m dieting, i don’t have problems to get the job done, but i’m not as motivated as when i’m eating normaly.
Probably the bromo is keeping my prolactin in the low-normal range, and prolactin inhibits T at some extent. I’m not really sure if it helps to say that even at 10%BF i still have little fat deposits in the bottom of my pecs (chest fat is the only one with prolactin receptors in the body).
Rather than that, i’m having visible fat loss so far (1 week).
EDIT: give me a break, English is not my mothertounge, and i got tired of saying “please excuse myy bad english” and shit. I tried to correct my mistakes anyway.