[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You not agreeing with it doesn’t make the action in itself WRONG.
Wearing boxing gloves doesn’t make it wrong any more than grabbing a belt for that spanking is wrong. The OUTCOME should be the focus.
Mind you, the people above you seem to understand how that topic relates.
[/quote]
Sitting back and taking everyone’s comments in, I have to say, this part right here is a good point. A lot of you disagree with the method used by Alexander, based on some “equal footing” belief, however, let’s say you grabbed the belt or switch. What’s to stop the 16 YEAR OLD boy, who was already smelling himself (most likely), from retaliating or defending himself? And if he does, what? The war/battle/conflict is lost? Not hardly.
I am a new parent, and I am already struggling with three teenagers, however, no matter how much time goes by, lessons will continue to be taught, either thru physical means or non-physical, ie-grounding, showing the door, ex-communicating (I know, I know, religion…) My point is, I’m a grown ass man at 31, and I am still learning lessons from my mother, and other grown folk. It never stops.
What most of you are disagreeing with and disparaging is Alexander’s METHOD. As I can only go off of the very much biased report of Maggie Hendricks, I don’t know the full story, just like you all don’t. But…I get the strong feeling that the boy needed his ass whooped, and Alexander did it the best way he knew how. Call it stupid, call it abuse, call it wrong, but the fact remains, Alexander got SOLE CUSTODY OVER SIX KIDS. He must be doing something right for that to happen. [/quote]
Or the chick is fucking up really bad.
You and PX keep pointing out “what if the Kid grabs the belt or what if he fights back”
That is not the same as GIVING the kid a belt also and saying it’s cool because you are better with it.
If the kid is fighting you back you have lost total control and beating him down is not a problem ended if it didn’t work after 16years.
I’m not against spanking, even though that will not work at a certain age. It is harder if you come into a family and the kids already have no relationship with you.
It’s never one thing Spanking, Talking, taking away items non of this stuff ALONE works.
The child MUST respect you. How you get and keep that respect is what this conversation should be about.
[/quote]
I did not “keep pointing out” anything, Old Man!!! lol. I do agree that spankings don’t work after a certain age, but based upon MY assumption of what I THINK led to the gloves coming out, the boxing involved a lesson. That is most likely how he handles respect issues with the 16 y/o. Not as a true equal, but as tool to show the boy that he is not grown yet, no matter how much of himself he is smelling.
I do like how you emphasized none of the other measures ALONE works, though. That is definitely a true statement. [/quote]
If you acknowledge that “spankings don’t work after a certain age” and both are corporal punishment (the argument you’re buying), how do you support one, but intellectually reject the other (after a certain age)?
Don’t you think as a parent that you have MANY options concerning a 16 year old? He’s likely not working, can’t buy his own shit and can’t put a roof over his own head. I can think of MANY measures that will have an EFFECT over a spanking or sparring match.
[/quote]
I am picking up what you’re putting down, however, I don’t consider what Alexander did as a “spanking”, per se. It was a lesson, albeit a physical one. None of us knows how the household is ran, so who is to say that these lessons haven’t taken place before? But, I’m tap-dancing around your question.
As a parent (I’m new at this, so please bear with me) there are options, however, dependent on the situation, not all may be available at that present time. In Alexander’s case, he chose the route he wanted to take. I can’t sit way out here and say he was wrong or right, although it looks like I may have previously. I simply don’t disagree with it, strictly based upon the limited info we all have.
Damn…I’m going to have to re-engage in a few hours as I have to hit the road. I look forward to picking you older dads’ brains. It definitely helps me as a new father to two teenagers. [/quote]
When you come back, you have to concede that either your argument is illogical or you have to explain yourself better because you accepted the premise that a sparring match with your 16 year old son isn’t different than a spanking (they are both corporal punishment and this is the reasoning laid out by X that you agreed to).
A few things (as an EXPERIENCED PARENT);
As an EXPERIENCED PARENT, I can tell you what the result is or isn’t of a spanking, physical punishment or THREAT of physical punishment - not my “theory” or personal feelings.
I can tell you the results of consistency and inconsistency.
I can tell you the results of your child have poor friends.
As someone said, they don’t come with an instruction book. But it’s laughable to hear people that don’t have kids weigh in with an opinion. When you’re a parent, sometimes no matter what you did or didn’t do, your kids turn out okay (as with my older boy) - it might have been your parenting, or you might have gotten lucky in spite of yourself.
Parents LOVE to take credit for successes when in fact a kid could just be “wired” right and stayed on the right path, did the right things. Parents LOVE to adopt a personal bias for those GOOD results.
Likewise, we have people arguing here that love to adopt their OWN personal bias based on their experience as kids.
I say that mistakes are more instructive (as they are with most of life). Mistakes = true experience.
And I can tell you that as a parent, I have witnessed and committed mistakes. I have seen the results of inconsistency with the child and/or between parents. I have seen the results (or lack thereof) of corporal punishment. And moreover, I have seen first hand the influence of poor friends on a child.
Raising another human is a complex endeavor. It can’t be “codified” (thus the lack of an instruction manual) but it’s damn sure a bit more complicated than “you need to do more than take away their cell phone privileges” (which is code for “whoop that ass”).
Some of my worse friends (those in jail, dead or on the waiting list to go to jail) GOT THAT ASS WHOOPED.
If there is any “manual”, in my humble opinion it’s:
Lots of love and support;
Consistency;
Clear expectations and reasonable consequences for actions;
MONITOR AND MANAGE THEIR FRIENDSHIPS.
The last one is probably the most difficult, if not impossible but I assure you, it’s the most critical. I’ll say it again, show me a kid acting a fool that has GOOD friends, and I’ll eat a block of lifting chalk.
I wish things were that simple for me.