Boxing with Son is Child Abuse? Really?

Off Topic
161

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I don’t see a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

My wrestling coach wrestles His son when he fights in school or wherever.
[/quote]

Being a Parent can be fucking hard (PERIOD). Trying to do it with the world looking over your shoulder is harder.

I get it, really I get it. A athlete is trying to teach his kid right from wrong and keep the respect of being DAD reverts back to his sport to teach the kid a lesson.

But you end up teaching the kid that his WRONG actions His defiance of YOUR rules earns him a shot to get away with it if one day he can be Stronger and Faster than the person in charge.

Is that what you want the kid to walk away with by this CHALLENGE.

So its no longer Do what I say becuase I"M RIGHT and YOU are WRONG its Obey My rules or BEAT ME???

I think the dad was trying to be a good father to the kid.

I don’t agree with the lesson he is teaching.

[/quote]

Well said 460 and I agree, my only question is:

What do you do when they flat out just do not respect or listen to you? When they are 16-17 years old skipping school and running with the wrong crowd?[/quote]

A teen is going to try/test you. We all know that. Its hard at that age because shit they are damn near out the door and the world is looking at them as adults when the parents know they are not.

So you are fighting the kid, his friends and the world telling you how to lay the smack down on a pre-adult who still needs you to survive.

With me its my way or the Highway. If you don’t like my punishment then the door is your option (I understand kids will call the cops etc etc. But shit they will call them no matter what you do). What I will not do What I WILL NEVER do is let the kid think he stands on equal grounds with me.

This fucking worlds wants us to treat kids as equals when they are not. Teachers tell them this friends, media hell even some family. You can tell me your side of the story no problem. You can prove me wrong no problem. But you do not get to overrule me as a parent. To much negotiation with kids.

The hardest part about punishment is sticking with it. Once you have decided you are right the conversation is over until the punishment is over (spank,take away shit, strip everything from the closet except 4 pants 4 shirts for school) or whatever you decided.

But it only takes one time for a kid to think he can play you and its over he will do it again and again. And this shit is 1000 times harder if you have 2 adults in charge and one does not agree with the other in front of the kid.[/quote]

I have had two sons go off the deep end, and no matter what things we did would not deter from the wrong path. Drugs, drinking, sex, stealing etc. We had to do the tough love and as a parent that was the hardest thing I have ever done. For 3 years I did not talk to my son who is fixing to turn 21 years old.

He came back with a lot of baggage and legal fees, the other son came back after only a year with the same baggage and fees.

How many parents do the hard stuff?

Is it just giving up to do tough love or is just enabling them giving up?[/quote]

What is your option though. To agree with them and allow them to continue the road they are on with your blessing.

162

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I don’t see a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

My wrestling coach wrestles His son when he fights in school or wherever.
[/quote]

Being a Parent can be fucking hard (PERIOD). Trying to do it with the world looking over your shoulder is harder.

I get it, really I get it. A athlete is trying to teach his kid right from wrong and keep the respect of being DAD reverts back to his sport to teach the kid a lesson.

But you end up teaching the kid that his WRONG actions His defiance of YOUR rules earns him a shot to get away with it if one day he can be Stronger and Faster than the person in charge.

Is that what you want the kid to walk away with by this CHALLENGE.

So its no longer Do what I say becuase I"M RIGHT and YOU are WRONG its Obey My rules or BEAT ME???

I think the dad was trying to be a good father to the kid.

I don’t agree with the lesson he is teaching.

[/quote]

Well said 460 and I agree, my only question is:

What do you do when they flat out just do not respect or listen to you? When they are 16-17 years old skipping school and running with the wrong crowd?[/quote]

I’ll answer that. You failed somewhere along the way and you have lost the battle AND the war. At that age, they may have poor impulse control, but they are young adults. And they must right their own ship and learn shit the hard way - I don’t think there is anything a parent can do at that point.

163

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I don’t see a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

My wrestling coach wrestles His son when he fights in school or wherever.
[/quote]

Being a Parent can be fucking hard (PERIOD). Trying to do it with the world looking over your shoulder is harder.

I get it, really I get it. A athlete is trying to teach his kid right from wrong and keep the respect of being DAD reverts back to his sport to teach the kid a lesson.

But you end up teaching the kid that his WRONG actions His defiance of YOUR rules earns him a shot to get away with it if one day he can be Stronger and Faster than the person in charge.

Is that what you want the kid to walk away with by this CHALLENGE.

So its no longer Do what I say becuase I"M RIGHT and YOU are WRONG its Obey My rules or BEAT ME???

I think the dad was trying to be a good father to the kid.

I don’t agree with the lesson he is teaching.

[/quote]

Well said 460 and I agree, my only question is:

What do you do when they flat out just do not respect or listen to you? When they are 16-17 years old skipping school and running with the wrong crowd?[/quote]

A teen is going to try/test you. We all know that. Its hard at that age because shit they are damn near out the door and the world is looking at them as adults when the parents know they are not.

So you are fighting the kid, his friends and the world telling you how to lay the smack down on a pre-adult who still needs you to survive.

With me its my way or the Highway. If you don’t like my punishment then the door is your option (I understand kids will call the cops etc etc. But shit they will call them no matter what you do). What I will not do What I WILL NEVER do is let the kid think he stands on equal grounds with me.

This fucking worlds wants us to treat kids as equals when they are not. Teachers tell them this friends, media hell even some family. You can tell me your side of the story no problem. You can prove me wrong no problem. But you do not get to overrule me as a parent. To much negotiation with kids.

The hardest part about punishment is sticking with it. Once you have decided you are right the conversation is over until the punishment is over (spank,take away shit, strip everything from the closet except 4 pants 4 shirts for school) or whatever you decided.

But it only takes one time for a kid to think he can play you and its over he will do it again and again. And this shit is 1000 times harder if you have 2 adults in charge and one does not agree with the other in front of the kid.[/quote]

I have had two sons go off the deep end, and no matter what things we did would not deter from the wrong path. Drugs, drinking, sex, stealing etc. We had to do the tough love and as a parent that was the hardest thing I have ever done. For 3 years I did not talk to my son who is fixing to turn 21 years old.

He came back with a lot of baggage and legal fees, the other son came back after only a year with the same baggage and fees.

How many parents do the hard stuff?

Is it just giving up to do tough love or is just enabling them giving up?[/quote]

What is your option though. To agree with them and allow them to continue the road they are on with your blessing.

[/quote]

Exactly.

I had typed out two long paragraphs and deleted twice about all this.

Being a parent is the most rewarding/frustrating/difficult/loving thing we do as adults.

They do not come with instructions.

164

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I don’t see a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

My wrestling coach wrestles His son when he fights in school or wherever.
[/quote]

Being a Parent can be fucking hard (PERIOD). Trying to do it with the world looking over your shoulder is harder.

I get it, really I get it. A athlete is trying to teach his kid right from wrong and keep the respect of being DAD reverts back to his sport to teach the kid a lesson.

But you end up teaching the kid that his WRONG actions His defiance of YOUR rules earns him a shot to get away with it if one day he can be Stronger and Faster than the person in charge.

Is that what you want the kid to walk away with by this CHALLENGE.

So its no longer Do what I say becuase I"M RIGHT and YOU are WRONG its Obey My rules or BEAT ME???

I think the dad was trying to be a good father to the kid.

I don’t agree with the lesson he is teaching.

[/quote]

Well said 460 and I agree, my only question is:

What do you do when they flat out just do not respect or listen to you? When they are 16-17 years old skipping school and running with the wrong crowd?[/quote]

A teen is going to try/test you. We all know that. Its hard at that age because shit they are damn near out the door and the world is looking at them as adults when the parents know they are not.

So you are fighting the kid, his friends and the world telling you how to lay the smack down on a pre-adult who still needs you to survive.

With me its my way or the Highway. If you don’t like my punishment then the door is your option (I understand kids will call the cops etc etc. But shit they will call them no matter what you do). What I will not do What I WILL NEVER do is let the kid think he stands on equal grounds with me.

This fucking worlds wants us to treat kids as equals when they are not. Teachers tell them this friends, media hell even some family. You can tell me your side of the story no problem. You can prove me wrong no problem. But you do not get to overrule me as a parent. To much negotiation with kids.

The hardest part about punishment is sticking with it. Once you have decided you are right the conversation is over until the punishment is over (spank,take away shit, strip everything from the closet except 4 pants 4 shirts for school) or whatever you decided.

But it only takes one time for a kid to think he can play you and its over he will do it again and again. And this shit is 1000 times harder if you have 2 adults in charge and one does not agree with the other in front of the kid.[/quote]

I have had two sons go off the deep end, and no matter what things we did would not deter from the wrong path. Drugs, drinking, sex, stealing etc. We had to do the tough love and as a parent that was the hardest thing I have ever done. For 3 years I did not talk to my son who is fixing to turn 21 years old.

He came back with a lot of baggage and legal fees, the other son came back after only a year with the same baggage and fees.

How many parents do the hard stuff?

Is it just giving up to do tough love or is just enabling them giving up?[/quote]

I know exactly where you’re coming from with that because in many ways I was like your son a few years ago. I settled in with the wrong crowd and having no proper discipline and always getting away with everything I did caused major lapses in my judgment. My parents would ground me or take away video games, computer, tv, etc but there was no follow through. They were at work when I got home from school so I did what I wanted. If they were there and I wanted to leave there was no stopping me since I was always a big kid and my mom refused to let my dad lay a hand on me. I grew up with no discipline and due to that felt untouchable.

2 years ago I was arrested and spent a week in the intake center for a case that is currently still pending. It took that major event for me to change completely. I’ve wisened up and can proudly say that the only thing that is the same for me now as it was 2 years ago is my name. My morals and beliefs have changed and I stand up for things I believe are right. I am a true believer that people can change but it takes a catalyst of some sorts to do it. True discipline can be that catalyst if it is properly executed.

165

[quote]Pweedith wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I don’t see a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

My wrestling coach wrestles His son when he fights in school or wherever.
[/quote]

Being a Parent can be fucking hard (PERIOD). Trying to do it with the world looking over your shoulder is harder.

I get it, really I get it. A athlete is trying to teach his kid right from wrong and keep the respect of being DAD reverts back to his sport to teach the kid a lesson.

But you end up teaching the kid that his WRONG actions His defiance of YOUR rules earns him a shot to get away with it if one day he can be Stronger and Faster than the person in charge.

Is that what you want the kid to walk away with by this CHALLENGE.

So its no longer Do what I say becuase I"M RIGHT and YOU are WRONG its Obey My rules or BEAT ME???

I think the dad was trying to be a good father to the kid.

I don’t agree with the lesson he is teaching.

[/quote]

Well said 460 and I agree, my only question is:

What do you do when they flat out just do not respect or listen to you? When they are 16-17 years old skipping school and running with the wrong crowd?[/quote]

A teen is going to try/test you. We all know that. Its hard at that age because shit they are damn near out the door and the world is looking at them as adults when the parents know they are not.

So you are fighting the kid, his friends and the world telling you how to lay the smack down on a pre-adult who still needs you to survive.

With me its my way or the Highway. If you don’t like my punishment then the door is your option (I understand kids will call the cops etc etc. But shit they will call them no matter what you do). What I will not do What I WILL NEVER do is let the kid think he stands on equal grounds with me.

This fucking worlds wants us to treat kids as equals when they are not. Teachers tell them this friends, media hell even some family. You can tell me your side of the story no problem. You can prove me wrong no problem. But you do not get to overrule me as a parent. To much negotiation with kids.

The hardest part about punishment is sticking with it. Once you have decided you are right the conversation is over until the punishment is over (spank,take away shit, strip everything from the closet except 4 pants 4 shirts for school) or whatever you decided.

But it only takes one time for a kid to think he can play you and its over he will do it again and again. And this shit is 1000 times harder if you have 2 adults in charge and one does not agree with the other in front of the kid.[/quote]

I have had two sons go off the deep end, and no matter what things we did would not deter from the wrong path. Drugs, drinking, sex, stealing etc. We had to do the tough love and as a parent that was the hardest thing I have ever done. For 3 years I did not talk to my son who is fixing to turn 21 years old.

He came back with a lot of baggage and legal fees, the other son came back after only a year with the same baggage and fees.

How many parents do the hard stuff?

Is it just giving up to do tough love or is just enabling them giving up?[/quote]

I know exactly where you’re coming from with that because in many ways I was like your son a few years ago. I settled in with the wrong crowd and having no proper discipline and always getting away with everything I did caused major lapses in my judgment. My parents would ground me or take away video games, computer, tv, etc but there was no follow through. They were at work when I got home from school so I did what I wanted. If they were there and I wanted to leave there was no stopping me since I was always a big kid and my mom refused to let my dad lay a hand on me. I grew up with no discipline and due to that felt untouchable.

2 years ago I was arrested and spent a week in the intake center for a case that is currently still pending. It took that major event for me to change completely. I’ve wisened up and can proudly say that the only thing that is the same for me now as it was 2 years ago is my name. My morals and beliefs have changed and I stand up for things I believe are right. I am a true believer that people can change but it takes a catalyst of some sorts to do it. True discipline can be that catalyst if it is properly executed.[/quote]

I am a divorced dad that got my kids 3 and 1/2 days a week every week. I was very involved to much of that to type out.

My son ended up having to spend 3 weeks in jail for all his legal problems, to start over and turn a new leaf. He was lucky enough to get out 3 days before Christmas. Him and I have had the same discussion you are typing here, and I will say Congratulations to you.

But not every kid is as lucky as you or my son. Us old guys could name a ton of guys who are fucking dead cause they had the same thoughts you used to.

I can understand the MMA fighter just doing everything in his heart and his limited intelligence (not calling him stupid) to SAVE his son.

166

Amazing how the discussion can end on many of the same points we tried to discuss earlier. Pweedith, you wrote some good posts here and that was pretty much what I was getting at. We seem to have gone from seeing physical discipline as a norm to completely dropping most forms of discipline aside from grounding tactics and a good talking to. That method doesn’t seem to be working well.

167

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Amazing how the discussion can end on many of the same points we tried to discuss earlier. Pweedith, you wrote some good posts here and that was pretty much what I was getting at. We seem to have gone from seeing physical discipline as a norm to completely dropping most forms of discipline aside from grounding tactics and a good talking to. That method doesn’t seem to be working well.[/quote]

I think you missed our point entirely. This was never a discussion about whether or not physical discipline was right or wrong. It was about whether boxing your 16 year old son is a proper form of discipline or not. Somehow the argument then morphed into a discussion about the general lack of discipline of kids these days. But this discussion has nothing to do with a lack of discipline or whether or not we should physical discipline should be up to the parent or not. This really doesn’t even have anything to do with whether or not boxing is technically child abuse or not (technically I think it might be).

I don’t think that anyone here would deny that kids need discipline. I don’t think that anyone would deny that a spanking doesn’t constitute abuse. Where we differ here is on our stance about if it’s appropriate behavior for a grown man (and pro fighter) to go toe to toe with his son as a form of punishment. My opinion is that if it takes boxing your son and giving him a bloody nose to get your point across then you’ve lost the war. Discipline should be a one sided affair but the second you put on gloves it becomes two sided.

james

168

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

I think you missed our point entirely. This was never a discussion about whether or not physical discipline was right or wrong. It was about whether boxing your 16 year old son is a proper form of discipline or not. [/quote]

To label it as not a proper form of discipline, you have to be able to explain what specifically was wrong about it. Putting on boxing gloves to teach your kid a lesson is not WRONG and is not CHILD ABUSE. Would I personally do that? Probably not…for many of the same reasons Four60 brought up…but like others have written I can understand in this situation how that could be seen as normal in THAT household. That doesn’t mean that because I won’t make the same choice that I have the right to tell every other parent how to raise their own kids.

We HAVE to be able to discuss whether physical discipline is wrong. That is the only way you can tell me what factual line in the sand separates ABUSE from simply an action you would choose not to take.

Get it?

[quote]

Somehow the argument then morphed into a discussion about the general lack of discipline of kids these days. But this discussion has nothing to do with a lack of discipline or whether or not we should physical discipline should be up to the parent or not. This really doesn’t even have anything to do with whether or not boxing is technically child abuse or not (technically I think it might be).[/quote]

It actually does. Like the previous poster wrote, many of his friends are now devoid of much parental correction and it has been that way for a while. It isn’t making them better people.

A discussion about the lack of discipline in society very much falls in line with a discussion about proper discipline.

He didn’t go toe to toe. He’s a professional. He had the kid gear up and they sparred with each other as a form of punishment.

You not agreeing with it doesn’t make the action in itself WRONG.

Wearing boxing gloves doesn’t make it wrong any more than grabbing a belt for that spanking is wrong. The OUTCOME should be the focus.

Mind you, the people above you seem to understand how that topic relates.

169

[quote]Professor X wrote:
You not agreeing with it doesn’t make the action in itself WRONG.

Wearing boxing gloves doesn’t make it wrong any more than grabbing a belt for that spanking is wrong. The OUTCOME should be the focus.

Mind you, the people above you seem to understand how that topic relates.
[/quote]

Sitting back and taking everyone’s comments in, I have to say, this part right here is a good point. A lot of you disagree with the method used by Alexander, based on some “equal footing” belief, however, let’s say you grabbed the belt or switch. What’s to stop the 16 YEAR OLD boy, who was already smelling himself (most likely), from retaliating or defending himself? And if he does, what? The war/battle/conflict is lost? Not hardly.

I am a new parent, and I am already struggling with three teenagers, however, no matter how much time goes by, lessons will continue to be taught, either thru physical means or non-physical, ie-grounding, showing the door, ex-communicating (I know, I know, religion…) My point is, I’m a grown ass man at 31, and I am still learning lessons from my mother, and other grown folk. It never stops.

What most of you are disagreeing with and disparaging is Alexander’s METHOD. As I can only go off of the very much biased report of Maggie Hendricks, I don’t know the full story, just like you all don’t. But…I get the strong feeling that the boy needed his ass whooped, and Alexander did it the best way he knew how. Call it stupid, call it abuse, call it wrong, but the fact remains, Alexander got SOLE CUSTODY OVER SIX KIDS. He must be doing something right for that to happen.

170

Just some more thoughts on this situation.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/374575/Houston-Alexander-charged-with-child-abuse-for-boxing-with-son/

171

[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:
What’s to stop the 16 YEAR OLD boy, who was already smelling himself (most likely), from retaliating or defending himself? And if he does, what? The war/battle/conflict is lost? Not hardly. [/quote]

Exactly. Hell, my parents were still whooping my ass at 16. They didn’t give a shit about my fighting career and my MA ranks. They were MY PARENTS and if they felt I was disrespecting them, they wouldn’t hesitate kicking my ass. However I had this on my mind, ‘Goddam you, fools! One of these days, I swear… next time you raise your hand on me, I will break your arm or snap your shoulder… I will snatch that belt off your hand and fuck you up with it.’’

The method of punishment doesn’t matter. Whether it is grounding, slapping, spanking or boxing, an angry teen will get fed up and will go over you. He will do anything to get equal footing. Alexander probably knew his son hadn’t reached that stage yet.

[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:
Alexander got SOLE CUSTODY OVER SIX KIDS. He must be doing something right for that to happen. [/quote]

This x10000000

172

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I don’t see a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

My wrestling coach wrestles His son when he fights in school or wherever.
[/quote]

Being a Parent can be fucking hard (PERIOD). Trying to do it with the world looking over your shoulder is harder.

I get it, really I get it. A athlete is trying to teach his kid right from wrong and keep the respect of being DAD reverts back to his sport to teach the kid a lesson.

But you end up teaching the kid that his WRONG actions His defiance of YOUR rules earns him a shot to get away with it if one day he can be Stronger and Faster than the person in charge.

Is that what you want the kid to walk away with by this CHALLENGE.

So its no longer Do what I say becuase I"M RIGHT and YOU are WRONG its Obey My rules or BEAT ME???

I think the dad was trying to be a good father to the kid.

I don’t agree with the lesson he is teaching.

[/quote]

Well said 460 and I agree, my only question is:

What do you do when they flat out just do not respect or listen to you? When they are 16-17 years old skipping school and running with the wrong crowd?[/quote]

I’ll answer that. You failed somewhere along the way and you have lost the battle AND the war. At that age, they may have poor impulse control, but they are young adults. And they must right their own ship and learn shit the hard way - I don’t think there is anything a parent can do at that point.
[/quote]

I take issue with “You failed somewhere along the way”. Where is the responsibility for your kid. Do you honestly believe that if your kid fucks up, its your fault? A parent has limited resources and no handbook - you do the best you can. At some point when do you say, I’ve taught the kid all the lessons I can and now its up to you?

173

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I don’t see a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

My wrestling coach wrestles His son when he fights in school or wherever.
[/quote]

Being a Parent can be fucking hard (PERIOD). Trying to do it with the world looking over your shoulder is harder.

I get it, really I get it. A athlete is trying to teach his kid right from wrong and keep the respect of being DAD reverts back to his sport to teach the kid a lesson.

But you end up teaching the kid that his WRONG actions His defiance of YOUR rules earns him a shot to get away with it if one day he can be Stronger and Faster than the person in charge.

Is that what you want the kid to walk away with by this CHALLENGE.

So its no longer Do what I say becuase I"M RIGHT and YOU are WRONG its Obey My rules or BEAT ME???

I think the dad was trying to be a good father to the kid.

I don’t agree with the lesson he is teaching.

[/quote]

Well said 460 and I agree, my only question is:

What do you do when they flat out just do not respect or listen to you? When they are 16-17 years old skipping school and running with the wrong crowd?[/quote]

I’ll answer that. You failed somewhere along the way and you have lost the battle AND the war. At that age, they may have poor impulse control, but they are young adults. And they must right their own ship and learn shit the hard way - I don’t think there is anything a parent can do at that point.
[/quote]

I take issue with “You failed somewhere along the way”. Where is the responsibility for your kid. Do you honestly believe that if your kid fucks up, its your fault? A parent has limited resources and no handbook - you do the best you can. At some point when do you say, I’ve taught the kid all the lessons I can and now its up to you?[/quote]

You’re misunderstanding me. The context of the question I responded to included “they flat out just do not respect or listen to you”. If that is the case, I think somewhere as a parent you fucked up. They don’t wake up one day and not respect you. That’s a tear in the fabric of the parent/child relationship and it doesn’t happen overnight. That doesn’t mean the kid has no responsibility as I clearly state that at that age they are young adults with minds of their own and have to right their own ship and face the consequences for their actions - hence the tough love.

And this is not directed to you Lou, but there are a bunch of “theory” armchair quarterback no having kids opinions in this thread which is quite hysterical. The same motherfuckers that will discount an opinion b/c dude aint hyoooge or otherwise have experience, are here talking about parenting. And to top it off, we have an alleged “excellent” post about parenting coming from someone that is barely an adult. LOL

As a parent of 3 boys, two of which are college age (one graduating this year) - I can tell you unequivocally that in my experience, and my experience with other kids, discipline is important (consistency moreso than method), but WHO THEIR FRIENDS ARE TRUMPS discipline. Discipline is important. But their friends will have far more influence over them than a parent ever will.

If they slip in with the wrong crowd, you’re in for a bunch of hurt.

You show me a kid that is fucking up and doesn’t respect his parents and is out of control and if that kid has decent upstanding friends I’ll eat a block of lifting chalk.

174

[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:
Alexander got SOLE CUSTODY OVER SIX KIDS. He must be doing something right for that to happen. [/quote]

Seriously?

I’m willing to bet you the mother is dead or a drug user.

Wanna wager?

175

[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
You not agreeing with it doesn’t make the action in itself WRONG.

Wearing boxing gloves doesn’t make it wrong any more than grabbing a belt for that spanking is wrong. The OUTCOME should be the focus.

Mind you, the people above you seem to understand how that topic relates.
[/quote]

Sitting back and taking everyone’s comments in, I have to say, this part right here is a good point. A lot of you disagree with the method used by Alexander, based on some “equal footing” belief, however, let’s say you grabbed the belt or switch. What’s to stop the 16 YEAR OLD boy, who was already smelling himself (most likely), from retaliating or defending himself? And if he does, what? The war/battle/conflict is lost? Not hardly.

I am a new parent, and I am already struggling with three teenagers, however, no matter how much time goes by, lessons will continue to be taught, either thru physical means or non-physical, ie-grounding, showing the door, ex-communicating (I know, I know, religion…) My point is, I’m a grown ass man at 31, and I am still learning lessons from my mother, and other grown folk. It never stops.

What most of you are disagreeing with and disparaging is Alexander’s METHOD. As I can only go off of the very much biased report of Maggie Hendricks, I don’t know the full story, just like you all don’t. But…I get the strong feeling that the boy needed his ass whooped, and Alexander did it the best way he knew how. Call it stupid, call it abuse, call it wrong, but the fact remains, Alexander got SOLE CUSTODY OVER SIX KIDS. He must be doing something right for that to happen. [/quote]

And no it’s not a valid point for those of us that disagree with it. It’s just a permutation of his same fallacious argument. Why? Because those of us that don’t agree with boxing your son as a means of punishment would likely not agree to using a belt or switch or other object either. I think that point is lost on many of you.

I’m not against a spanking. I’m not thrilled by it and I’m conflicted by it. However, I can’t imagine picking up a fucking belt or other object to strike my children.

176

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I don’t see a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

My wrestling coach wrestles His son when he fights in school or wherever.
[/quote]

Being a Parent can be fucking hard (PERIOD). Trying to do it with the world looking over your shoulder is harder.

I get it, really I get it. A athlete is trying to teach his kid right from wrong and keep the respect of being DAD reverts back to his sport to teach the kid a lesson.

But you end up teaching the kid that his WRONG actions His defiance of YOUR rules earns him a shot to get away with it if one day he can be Stronger and Faster than the person in charge.

Is that what you want the kid to walk away with by this CHALLENGE.

So its no longer Do what I say becuase I"M RIGHT and YOU are WRONG its Obey My rules or BEAT ME???

I think the dad was trying to be a good father to the kid.

I don’t agree with the lesson he is teaching.

[/quote]

Well said 460 and I agree, my only question is:

What do you do when they flat out just do not respect or listen to you? When they are 16-17 years old skipping school and running with the wrong crowd?[/quote]

I’ll answer that. You failed somewhere along the way and you have lost the battle AND the war. At that age, they may have poor impulse control, but they are young adults. And they must right their own ship and learn shit the hard way - I don’t think there is anything a parent can do at that point.
[/quote]

Sorry missed this yesterday BG.

You are correct in the sense of failing at some point, as a divorced father I failed when I got a divorce. By my choice I decided to end my marriage and knew it would also cost me down the line with my children.

My X provided the out all during my kids childhood, she was the “friend” parent and did not impose any discipline. So when I did impose discipline it was only at my house, when they got older they choose (which in Texas at around 14 the kid can decide where he wants to live) not to come to my house any longer due to my discipline.

From my perspective I can not relate to raising kids in a “normal” family unit cause even my 3 step-children had the same out with my wife’s X.

Back on topic if the MMA fighter was awarded custody of 6 kids, then he obviously has this same issue that I had.

BG you have an X sir, so just be prepared man it gets A LOT tougher when the kids get older.

177

[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
You not agreeing with it doesn’t make the action in itself WRONG.

Wearing boxing gloves doesn’t make it wrong any more than grabbing a belt for that spanking is wrong. The OUTCOME should be the focus.

Mind you, the people above you seem to understand how that topic relates.
[/quote]

Sitting back and taking everyone’s comments in, I have to say, this part right here is a good point. A lot of you disagree with the method used by Alexander, based on some “equal footing” belief, however, let’s say you grabbed the belt or switch. What’s to stop the 16 YEAR OLD boy, who was already smelling himself (most likely), from retaliating or defending himself? And if he does, what? The war/battle/conflict is lost? Not hardly.

I am a new parent, and I am already struggling with three teenagers, however, no matter how much time goes by, lessons will continue to be taught, either thru physical means or non-physical, ie-grounding, showing the door, ex-communicating (I know, I know, religion…) My point is, I’m a grown ass man at 31, and I am still learning lessons from my mother, and other grown folk. It never stops.

What most of you are disagreeing with and disparaging is Alexander’s METHOD. As I can only go off of the very much biased report of Maggie Hendricks, I don’t know the full story, just like you all don’t. But…I get the strong feeling that the boy needed his ass whooped, and Alexander did it the best way he knew how. Call it stupid, call it abuse, call it wrong, but the fact remains, Alexander got SOLE CUSTODY OVER SIX KIDS. He must be doing something right for that to happen. [/quote]

Or the chick is fucking up really bad.
You and PX keep pointing out “what if the Kid grabs the belt or what if he fights back”
That is not the same as GIVING the kid a belt also and saying it’s cool because you are better with it.

If the kid is fighting you back you have lost total control and beating him down is not a problem ended if it didn’t work after 16years.
I’m not against spanking, even though that will not work at a certain age. It is harder if you come into a family and the kids already have no relationship with you.
It’s never one thing Spanking, Talking, taking away items non of this stuff ALONE works.

The child MUST respect you. How you get and keep that respect is what this conversation should be about.

178

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:
Alexander got SOLE CUSTODY OVER SIX KIDS. He must be doing something right for that to happen. [/quote]

Seriously?

I’m willing to bet you the mother is dead or a drug user.

Wanna wager?[/quote]

I say drug, cause he is not labeled a widower

179

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I don’t see a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

My wrestling coach wrestles His son when he fights in school or wherever.
[/quote]

Being a Parent can be fucking hard (PERIOD). Trying to do it with the world looking over your shoulder is harder.

I get it, really I get it. A athlete is trying to teach his kid right from wrong and keep the respect of being DAD reverts back to his sport to teach the kid a lesson.

But you end up teaching the kid that his WRONG actions His defiance of YOUR rules earns him a shot to get away with it if one day he can be Stronger and Faster than the person in charge.

Is that what you want the kid to walk away with by this CHALLENGE.

So its no longer Do what I say becuase I"M RIGHT and YOU are WRONG its Obey My rules or BEAT ME???

I think the dad was trying to be a good father to the kid.

I don’t agree with the lesson he is teaching.

[/quote]

Well said 460 and I agree, my only question is:

What do you do when they flat out just do not respect or listen to you? When they are 16-17 years old skipping school and running with the wrong crowd?[/quote]

I’ll answer that. You failed somewhere along the way and you have lost the battle AND the war. At that age, they may have poor impulse control, but they are young adults. And they must right their own ship and learn shit the hard way - I don’t think there is anything a parent can do at that point.
[/quote]

Sorry missed this yesterday BG.

You are correct in the sense of failing at some point, as a divorced father I failed when I got a divorce. By my choice I decided to end my marriage and knew it would also cost me down the line with my children.

My X provided the out all during my kids childhood, she was the “friend” parent and did not impose any discipline. So when I did impose discipline it was only at my house, when they got older they choose (which in Texas at around 14 the kid can decide where he wants to live) not to come to my house any longer due to my discipline.

From my perspective I can not relate to raising kids in a “normal” family unit cause even my 3 step-children had the same out with my wife’s X.

Back on topic if the MMA fighter was awarded custody of 6 kids, then he obviously has this same issue that I had.

BG you have an X sir, so just be prepared man it gets A LOT tougher when the kids get older. [/quote]

I’ve gone thru this two ways.

The first with my older boys the mother and I did not get along, could not communicate and she (and the courts) reduced me to a weekend father. Fortunately, my oldest is a good kid (and about to graduate with a degree in engineering and going to grad school). His brother is hitting some bumps right now but should be able to right his ship. He’s a good kid too.

My youngest son LIVES WITH ME. And I have gone to great lengths to implore and explain to his mother that THE most important things we as parents can do is:

  1. Lose “I” from our vocabulary as it concerns him. Whenever I find myself about to express an “I” when it comes to our son, I stop myself and make sure I’m putting his best interest FIRST and not MY interest. I ask that she do the same. She is getting better. What either of us personally wants in a situation concerning him is bullshit. The thrust of every decision should be what’s best for him;

  2. We have to be CONSISTENT on everything from gift giving to bed times to meals to discipline. We had some bumps in the beginning, but things are running smoothly right now;

  3. We try not to “divide our son”. In other words, there was not “two Christmases” this year. We had the tree at my house and his gifts were here. Logistically, it made sense (I have a house, she has an apartment and I put up a big tree). She still decorated her home but his gifts were under OUR tree here at my home. We will also do something together for his birthday this month. This is in complete contrast with how it was done with my older boys. My older boys were “divided”.

Now, if one of us gets married, I’m not sure how the above will work logistically. So maybe I won’t get fucking married - my son is more important. I can’t have some woman freaking out and stressing me about my EX when I’m just putting my son’s interest FIRST. If that’s the price I have to pay, so be it. His well being is more important than my need to be married.

  1. She can come pick him up, and see him ANY TIME SHE WANTS. The idea of a schedule for a parent to see their child is dehumanizing. It’s bullshit. The only thing I ask of her is that during the week she be mindful of school and that he needs to do things consistently - dinner, bed time and such. This has been working great too. And I only ask to be included in special events (mostly I let them do their thing - I just want the courtesy of the option. just last week she invited me to the movies with them - that was her making an effort to include me, not fuck me or reignite our relationship).

I was just thinking about this the other day and I was giving her credit in my mind for coming a long way. Overall, things are smooth between us as it concerns our son. We don’t get along in many respects, but I think we will be okay AS PARENTS and that’s going to go a LONG way to making sure HE is okay. I WORKED VERY HARD TO SWALLOW MY PRIDE, EAT SOME SHIT I DON’T NORMALLY EAT, IN MY EFFORT TO MANAGE AND STEER HER TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

The above sounds pretty extraordinary doesn’t it? And that’s the sad part. The above is HOW IT SHOULD BE FOR ALL PARENTS TOGETHER OR NOT. I’d blame the court system but it’s really the PARENTS that fuck this shit up. The Courts only get involved b/c PARENTS can’t agree.

It matters not that ONE parent is willing to compromise and do the right thing - AGREEMENT obviously requires both. I could easily sit here and “blame the courts” for my second class treatment relative to my older boys - but the blame actually lies with their mother who would NEVER meet me halfway or do anything that didn’t suit her opinions and desires.

AC says it a lot; “protect your seed”. Someone else said (it may have been him too) “would you want this woman to be the mother of your children?” Kids don’t have much a chance in my opinion if you’re “parenting thru the courts”.

180

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:
Alexander got SOLE CUSTODY OVER SIX KIDS. He must be doing something right for that to happen. [/quote]

Seriously?

I’m willing to bet you the mother is dead or a drug user.

Wanna wager?[/quote]

I say drug, cause he is not labeled a widower [/quote]

I’d agree. NO parent gets “sole custody” unless something is terribly amiss with the other parent. Joint legal custody of your children is a basic right as a parent. Sole physical and legal custody are exceptions and there are usually extraordinary reasons for such an exception.

Hell, the mother might be incarcerated.