Wow. I agree with Rock. Yes, your kids do need to have some fear of their parents. That doesn’t mean roll around and intimidate them, but if they have no fear of any consequences, good luck raising a kid who doesn’t feel entitled.
What’s funny were the earlier posts acting like no one else had a valid point.
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Fear has been lost in raising kids. This is why, I feel, there are so many of my peers who are so fearless or walking around not giving a fuck. They haven’t been shown real limits, I.e. you will be left seeing stars and blood if you cross people.[/quote]
It’s a lack of respect that causing what you see with your peers not a lack of fear. It’s not supposed to be about teaching your kid that they aren’t the biggest and the baddest because I think they already know that. It’s about teaching them to have enough respect for others that they don’t do the things that cause them to get into trouble.
Are they going to push the limits? Of course they are. Then it’s a matter of reinforcing the respect lesson. It’s not about teaching them fear.
james
[/quote]
?
Our entire society works because of fear. People don’t avoid speeding because they all want to be nice and drive slower. They avoid it because they FEAR the ticket. Yes, your kids need some level of fear when it comes to going against their parents.
You avoid slapping your boss because you FEAR losing your job.
And please, save us from twisting that into acting like it means you need to make your kids wet themselves when you walk in the door.
The concept of fear in terms of respect is all through out the Bible.
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
I don’t see a problem.
Different strokes for different folks.
My wrestling coach wrestles His son when he fights in school or wherever.
[/quote]
Being a Parent can be fucking hard (PERIOD). Trying to do it with the world looking over your shoulder is harder.
I get it, really I get it. A athlete is trying to teach his kid right from wrong and keep the respect of being DAD reverts back to his sport to teach the kid a lesson.
But you end up teaching the kid that his WRONG actions His defiance of YOUR rules earns him a shot to get away with it if one day he can be Stronger and Faster than the person in charge.
Is that what you want the kid to walk away with by this CHALLENGE.
So its no longer Do what I say becuase I"M RIGHT and YOU are WRONG its Obey My rules or BEAT ME???
I think the dad was trying to be a good father to the kid.
I don’t agree with the lesson he is teaching.
[/quote]
That isn’t what I see.
When I see physical discipline I see a parent showing a child that the child is not the biggest and baddest. Thing breathing. It gives and obstacle he or she cannot overcome and teaches limits.
Fear has been lost in raising kids. This is why, I feel, there are so many of my peers who are so fearless or walking around not giving a fuck. They haven’t been shown real limits, I.e. you will be left seeing stars and blood if you cross people.
That is a valuable life lesson. Is it not,
Who else to teach it than a parent?
It isn’t even fear of the parent. Or actual fear at all moreso knowledge that you can and will be cut down if you cross lines.
And it doesn’t take a violent beating to do that…as there was no violent beating in the story.
For a group of guys who like to use the idea of following past generations y’all are missing this pretty bad.
Idk
Seeing your own blood is good stuff…[/quote]
LOL, beyond the Blood stuff “Vampire” I understand what you are saying.
If you want to show a kid he is not as tough as dear old dad Do it beyond punishment. To pick a time when both have no anger in the mix.
The only thing showing a kid you can over power him does is teach him that bullies have the right idea.
I wonder how many bullies make good dads?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Fear has been lost in raising kids. This is why, I feel, there are so many of my peers who are so fearless or walking around not giving a fuck. They haven’t been shown real limits, I.e. you will be left seeing stars and blood if you cross people.[/quote]
It’s a lack of respect that causing what you see with your peers not a lack of fear. It’s not supposed to be about teaching your kid that they aren’t the biggest and the baddest because I think they already know that. It’s about teaching them to have enough respect for others that they don’t do the things that cause them to get into trouble.
Are they going to push the limits? Of course they are. Then it’s a matter of reinforcing the respect lesson. It’s not about teaching them fear.
james
[/quote]
?
Our entire society works because of fear. People don’t avoid speeding because they all want to be nice and drive slower. They avoid it because they FEAR the ticket. Yes, your kids need some level of fear when it comes to going against their parents.
You avoid slapping your boss because you FEAR losing your job.
And please, save us from twisting that into acting like it means you need to make your kids wet themselves when you walk in the door.
The concept of fear in terms of respect is all through out the Bible.[/quote]
The wife and I have had this same discussion over the years, there is a very thin line between fear and respect. We have that emotion out of self preservation, you dont walk into a forest and bitch slap a grizzly bear. Its not out of respect its out of fear for your life. That is an extreme of course, but children are not born with altruistic morals and beliefs. So cause and effect in the early years is the only means of getting some life lessons across, as they age the moral compass and other means of punishment must be utilized.
^Agreed…which is why no one can claim it is WRONG to teach your kid who is boss by boxing with him when you are a world class professional.
If Tiger Wood’s kids challenge him one day and he takes them to a golf course to teach them who is boss, he is parenting wrong?
The ONLY valid argument here is if you are simply against all physical discipline…otherwise, let parents raise their own freaking kids and maybe we will get less self entitled teenagers who think they can talk back to every teacher or person of authority because they have no fear of the consequences.
And again…we tried to discuss this all at first.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow. I agree with Rock. Yes, your kids do need to have some fear of their parents. That doesn’t mean roll around and intimidate them, but if they have no fear of any consequences, good luck raising a kid who doesn’t feel entitled.
What’s funny were the earlier posts acting like no one else had a valid point.[/quote]
Can someone HIGHLIGHT the post that both Rock & X agree. I never thought that day would show up.
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow. I agree with Rock. Yes, your kids do need to have some fear of their parents. That doesn’t mean roll around and intimidate them, but if they have no fear of any consequences, good luck raising a kid who doesn’t feel entitled.
What’s funny were the earlier posts acting like no one else had a valid point.[/quote]
Can someone HIGHLIGHT the post that both Rock & X agree. I never thought that day would show up.[/quote]
Hahaha!
The Fear and Children thing is a fine line.
You can use Fear as a tool to avoid danger. If you see a kid going for a light socket with a fork you yell and tell them NO. If the kid tries it again you may smack his ass or hand to let give him something else to worry about over his “wonder” of the light socket.
That works but so much. After the child is old enough to reason with YOU MUST have something else in the mix.
I don’t want my child to FEAR me.
I want him to FEAR disappointing me.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow. I agree with Rock. Yes, your kids do need to have some fear of their parents. That doesn’t mean roll around and intimidate them, but if they have no fear of any consequences, good luck raising a kid who doesn’t feel entitled.
What’s funny were the earlier posts acting like no one else had a valid point.[/quote]
Can someone HIGHLIGHT the post that both Rock & X agree. I never thought that day would show up.[/quote]
Hahaha!
[/quote]
Who knew they would Agree over Rasing Kids???
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Fear has been lost in raising kids. This is why, I feel, there are so many of my peers who are so fearless or walking around not giving a fuck. They haven’t been shown real limits, I.e. you will be left seeing stars and blood if you cross people.[/quote]
It’s a lack of respect that causing what you see with your peers not a lack of fear. It’s not supposed to be about teaching your kid that they aren’t the biggest and the baddest because I think they already know that. It’s about teaching them to have enough respect for others that they don’t do the things that cause them to get into trouble.
Are they going to push the limits? Of course they are. Then it’s a matter of reinforcing the respect lesson. It’s not about teaching them fear.
james
[/quote]
I agree with this.
This works if you have laid out a foundation of Respect. If you are trying this for the first time when the kids is damn near an adult its FUCKING HARD. This happens when 2 parents are pulling the kid one way then the next or against each other also.
[quote]four60 wrote:
The Fear and Children thing is a fine line.
You can use Fear as a tool to avoid danger. If you see a kid going for a light socket with a fork you yell and tell them NO. If the kid tries it again you may smack his ass or hand to let give him something else to worry about over his “wonder” of the light socket.
That works but so much. After the child is old enough to reason with YOU MUST have something else in the mix.
I don’t want my child to FEAR me.
I want him to FEAR disappointing me.
[/quote]
I am sure in a perfect world, no one here wants their kid afraid of them, but the world isn’t perfect…and not every kid is going to reach becoming some model citizen if you avoid any and all physical discipline.
In this case, the dad (who is someone talented enough to be called a PRO) disciplined his kid in an activity the dad could not lose at. That isn’t bad parenting…or at least it wasn’t before people started laughing at “spare the rod, spoil the child”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Our entire society works because of fear. People don’t avoid speeding because they all want to be nice and drive slower. They avoid it because they FEAR the ticket. Yes, your kids need some level of fear when it comes to going against their parents.
You avoid slapping your boss because you FEAR losing your job.
And please, save us from twisting that into acting like it means you need to make your kids wet themselves when you walk in the door.
The concept of fear in terms of respect is all through out the Bible.[/quote]
Speeding is a great example to use. If you know you’re not going to get caught then you’re going to speed if the only thing you’re scared about is the ticket. There’s some really empty stretches of road out here and some really nice canyons that people speed on because they know that law enforcement is not going to be present. That tells me that fear of tickets only goes so far and only works in certain situations.
I avoid slapping my co-workers out of respect for myself not because I fear losing my job. In fact slapping my co-workers doesn’t really enter into my mind as a course of action when I’m frustrated and angry. My three year old lashes out like that but he’s still learning how to control his emotions.
Fear isn’t as great as a motivator as you think it is. There are a lot of examples of people doing things despite being scared of the consequences. In this case do you really think that his son will stop lying to him simply because he’s scared of his dad? Maybe so but in two years when he leaves home will he still be lying to his dad? What about his relationships with other people? Does boxing your dad and teaching him to fear you benefit his relationships with other people? Does it make him a better citizen? Does it teach him to not lie to other people? His teachers can’t fight him so does that mean he can lie to them? I mean there’s no repercussions right?
james
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow. I agree with Rock. Yes, your kids do need to have some fear of their parents. That doesn’t mean roll around and intimidate them, but if they have no fear of any consequences, good luck raising a kid who doesn’t feel entitled.
What’s funny were the earlier posts acting like no one else had a valid point.[/quote]
Can someone HIGHLIGHT the post that both Rock & X agree. I never thought that day would show up.[/quote]
Hahaha!
[/quote]
Who knew they would Agree over Rasing Kids???
[/quote]
Lol!
No matter how much I like you, 460, I find your parenting methods too relaxed for my taste. I like the ol’ school methods. Not that I intend to punish my sons and daughter by boxing them, but I’ll have more drastic methods to force them to respect me. Like… kicking them out. Literally.
But seriously, you do have a good points and I respect them.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
^Agreed…which is why no one can claim it is WRONG to teach your kid who is boss by boxing with him when you are a world class professional.
If Tiger Wood’s kids challenge him one day and he takes them to a golf course to teach them who is boss, he is parenting wrong?
The ONLY valid argument here is if you are simply against all physical discipline…otherwise, let parents raise their own freaking kids and maybe we will get loss self entitled teenagers who think they can talk back to every teacher or person of authority because they have no fear of the consequences.
And again…we tried to discuss this all at first.[/quote]
Had a funny interaction with some 14-15yr old kids at the movie theater over Christmas. My wife and I went to see Hugo in 3d. The movie is about to start and these two boys come in and sit behind us. The one leans forward and starts talking to me. " hey can I borrow your movie ticket my friend threw ours out and the lady at the front said we can’t come back in without it. I want to get a drink." I replied, “sorry I am not going to give you my ticket.” It was clear to me that they were sneaking into the film and wanted my ticket to go get glasses. He replies with some attitude, “why can’t you just give me you ticket?” So I asked him if he had his 3G glasses? He says I asked you a damn question.
I couldn’t believe my ears. I am 30 years old 5"10 252lbs at the moment with slightly over 18 inch arms. Clearly not in his age group and not one of his buddies. So I stood up leaned over the seat and very nicely asked him if he could see how big I was. My wife begging me to ignore it and that I was over reacting only help confirm to these boys that they may have just made a big mistake. The kid that swore at me nodded yes confirming he saw how big I was, I asked if he thought he should be careful how he spoke to me? He looked confused, so I said you swore at me didn’t you? Yes, I am sorry i shouldn’t have done that he replied. I said ok but you are not as smart as you think or I am not as dumb as you thought. I sat back down, they quietly got up and left.
The fact that he thought he was going to get over on me, the theater, and that when called on it he thought he could curse at me to intimidate me is what pissed me off. I would have never spoke to any adult, especially one my size in that way when I was in high school.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
The Fear and Children thing is a fine line.
You can use Fear as a tool to avoid danger. If you see a kid going for a light socket with a fork you yell and tell them NO. If the kid tries it again you may smack his ass or hand to let give him something else to worry about over his “wonder” of the light socket.
That works but so much. After the child is old enough to reason with YOU MUST have something else in the mix.
I don’t want my child to FEAR me.
I want him to FEAR disappointing me.
[/quote]
I am sure in a perfect world, no one here wants their kid afraid of them, but the world isn’t perfect…and not every kid is going to reach becoming some model citizen if you avoid any and all physical discipline.
In this case, the dad (who is someone talented enough to be called a PRO) disciplined his kid in an activity the dad could not lose at. That isn’t bad parenting…or at least it wasn’t before people started laughing at “spare the rod, spoil the child”.[/quote]
This dad was not just trying to lay out discipline. If you need to compete or in this case give the child the idea that its a compitition for dominance over the house Then you as the parent have already lost control.
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Speeding is a great example to use. If you know you’re not going to get caught then you’re going to speed if the only thing you’re scared about is the ticket.[/quote]
Welcome to LIFE. Sometimes, your life experiences have to teach you further. That doesn’t mean mom was wrong when she said you better not speed in her car or she would whip your ass. Yeah, she tried to scare that respect into you. And yes, as a human being, you still have choices to make past that.
[quote]
There’s some really empty stretches of road out here and some really nice canyons that people speed on because they know that law enforcement is not going to be present. That tells me that fear of tickets only goes so far and only works in certain situations.[/quote]
LIFE. There are people who break into houses and steal also. Imagine what it would be like if there was no fear of the consequences.
[quote]
I avoid slapping my co-workers out of respect for myself not because I fear losing my job. In fact slapping my co-workers doesn’t really enter into my mind as a course of action when I’m frustrated and angry. My three year old lashes out like that but he’s still learning how to control his emotions. [/quote]
I didn’t say co workers, I said BOSS. Most people will even laugh at every dumb joke their boss tells…out of FEAR.
[quote]
Fear isn’t as great as a motivator as you think it is. [/quote]
I didn’t say it was “great”. I said it IS. It exists because this society would fall apart without it.
[quote]
There are a lot of examples of people doing things despite being scared of the consequences. In this case do you really think that his son will stop lying to him simply because he’s scared of his dad? [/quote]
Maybe not now because we now live in a world where people outside of your family can now tell you how to raise your own kids. That means just like what happened here, any kid knows they can simply call the cops and have the parents arrested.
Just like the war on drugs…you create a bigger problem by trying to control everyone else.
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
The Fear and Children thing is a fine line.
You can use Fear as a tool to avoid danger. If you see a kid going for a light socket with a fork you yell and tell them NO. If the kid tries it again you may smack his ass or hand to let give him something else to worry about over his “wonder” of the light socket.
That works but so much. After the child is old enough to reason with YOU MUST have something else in the mix.
I don’t want my child to FEAR me.
I want him to FEAR disappointing me.
[/quote]
I am sure in a perfect world, no one here wants their kid afraid of them, but the world isn’t perfect…and not every kid is going to reach becoming some model citizen if you avoid any and all physical discipline.
In this case, the dad (who is someone talented enough to be called a PRO) disciplined his kid in an activity the dad could not lose at. That isn’t bad parenting…or at least it wasn’t before people started laughing at “spare the rod, spoil the child”.[/quote]
This dad was not just trying to lay out discipline. If you need to compete or in this case give the child the idea that its a compitition for dominance over the house Then you as the parent have already lost control.
[/quote]
So the next step is what? You don’t know any more about this family than I do so assuming all hope was already lost is a huge stretch. You simply don’t like the way he did it.
Fine.
But why the hell is it ok for you to stop him when no lasting damage occurred?
If you’ve lost control as a parent, I would assume you would try to get it back if you loved them.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
LIFE. There are people who break into houses and steal also. Imagine what it would be like if there was no fear of the consequences.[/quote]
The vast majority of break ins go unsolved. Essentially there are no consequences in these cases. In fact I think I’ve read where maybe 1 in 10 cases ever get solved. The guys doing these crimes aren’t scared of the consequences. They might be scared of the consequences of going into a particular house (gun owner or big dog) but they certainly aren’t scared of stealing. My point in all of this is that you want to raise kids who won’t steal not kids who won’t steal in one particular house. See the difference?
james
[quote]four60 wrote:
…If you need to compete or in this case give the child the idea that its a compitition for dominance over the house Then you as the parent have already lost control.
[/quote]
But how do you know it was about competition for dominance over the house?
And please don’t use my earlier dialogue as evidence…
On a serious note, we have no idea what was said before they boxed, apart from what had been reported, ‘‘you lied to me, let’s box’’ or something in that sense.
It’d be funny if after all this, his son turns out to be a timid young man instead of the rebellious 16 yo we had in mind.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow. I agree with Rock. Yes, your kids do need to have some fear of their parents. That doesn’t mean roll around and intimidate them, but if they have no fear of any consequences, good luck raising a kid who doesn’t feel entitled.
What’s funny were the earlier posts acting like no one else had a valid point.[/quote]
Can someone HIGHLIGHT the post that both Rock & X agree. I never thought that day would show up.[/quote]
Hahaha!
[/quote]
Who knew they would Agree over Rasing Kids???
[/quote]
Lol!
No matter how much I like you, 460, I find your parenting methods too relaxed for my taste. I like the ol’ school methods. Not that I intend to punish my sons and daughter by boxing them, but I’ll have more drastic methods to force them to respect me. Like… kicking them out. Literally.
But seriously, you do have a good points and I respect them.
[/quote]
SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTT… Relaxed is not the word I would use.
I’m saying if I need to prove to my kid that I’m stronger or faster than him to be in charge I have already LOST.
I’m in charge becuase you need me. I’m in charge because I know more than you about countless things. I’m in charge because I’m your parent and you are the child. And I need to push that into the child from day 1 not year 16.
If I’m making this sound like a duck walk then I’m not saying it right. Don’t for a second think I have never said the words “the day you raise your hands to me is the day you’re old enough to fend for yourself”.
I don’t play this negotiation BS I see parents doing. Please stop. PLEASE STOP??? You lay out your law and the kid breaks it now the kid gets to bargin his way through it with you. FUCK THAT.
And I’m not going to just lay out punishment without explaining why this shit is happening to you. Also I’m not holding a grudge after. I love you and I want you to understand why you have to go thru this punishment but even if you don’t we will talk AFTER BUT YOUR ASS IS STILL BEING PUNISHED.