Apologies is this has already been posted:
^ Thoughts?
The shit works. No lie.
And out of the punches he did get hit with, only a couple would have landed without the gloves.
Trained boxers are fast, pro boxers are absurdly fast, ya?
Just the difference in hand speed between a trained boxer and a random guy on the street is readily noticeable.
Thats not a street fight, its an arranged match (1 on 1, no need to worry about a second opponent flanking, etc)
He knows whats coming (punches only, can bob and weave without worry of opponent throwing a knee or going for a takedown, etc)
Fighting in a wide space (easy to move, circle, can just focus on whats in front rather than whether he is going to trip over something, etc)
His opponent is trying to “hit” him over 30-45s, whereas a real attacker will be trying to “kill” you and it will be over in <5s most of the time (different intensity, etc)
Who attacks you with boxing gloves on? (limits strikes to boxing punches, so he doesn’t have to worry about getting a finger in the eye, etc)
You can only tell if it would work for a real street fight if you fixed the problems above; otherwise its just a nice demonstartion of someone trying to apply a sport concept to real combat and introducing a bunch of conditions so it works.
[quote]Kev_PL1 wrote:
Thats not a street fight, its an arranged match (1 on 1, no need to worry about a second opponent flanking, etc)
He knows whats coming (punches only, can bob and weave without worry of opponent throwing a knee or going for a takedown, etc)
Fighting in a wide space (easy to move, circle, can just focus on whats in front rather than whether he is going to trip over something, etc)
His opponent is trying to “hit” him over 30-45s, whereas a real attacker will be trying to “kill” you and it will be over in <5s most of the time (different intensity, etc)
Who attacks you with boxing gloves on? (limits strikes to boxing punches, so he doesn’t have to worry about getting a finger in the eye, etc)
You can only tell if it would work for a real street fight if you fixed the problems above; otherwise its just a nice demonstartion of someone trying to apply a sport concept to real combat and introducing a bunch of conditions so it works.[/quote]
This is all true, what was portrayed couldn’t even really be called a match/sport fight though, more like an exhibition.
The video did do a pretty good job of demonstrating the effectiveness of being a moving target (evasive head, body, and foot movement) though; not that any of us were necessarily convinced otherwise.
[quote]Kev_PL1 wrote:
Thats not a street fight, its an arranged match (1 on 1, no need to worry about a second opponent flanking, etc)
He knows whats coming (punches only, can bob and weave without worry of opponent throwing a knee or going for a takedown, etc)
Fighting in a wide space (easy to move, circle, can just focus on whats in front rather than whether he is going to trip over something, etc)
His opponent is trying to “hit” him over 30-45s, whereas a real attacker will be trying to “kill” you and it will be over in <5s most of the time (different intensity, etc)
Who attacks you with boxing gloves on? (limits strikes to boxing punches, so he doesn’t have to worry about getting a finger in the eye, etc)
You can only tell if it would work for a real street fight if you fixed the problems above; otherwise its just a nice demonstartion of someone trying to apply a sport concept to real combat and introducing a bunch of conditions so it works.[/quote]
I feel like you are over analyzing this whole thing. Not it is not a real streetfight at all. By watching the video I get the feel that they know this and set up a demonstration to show that just using head movement and evasive measures could save you lots of damage in a real fight. Im sure he put gloves on for safety reason as well as legal reasons. To me it shows just how effective it can be. Of course there are always What ifs and variables in any situation and a fighter will have to react to that.
We actually do a very similar drill all the time but much more aggressive to work on our defenses. It works very well and also shows me how much I use counters to protect myself.
Great video to show how completely inept your average guy is in regards to fighting.
^ Yep.
Slipping is useful. I slipped a haymaker the other day and the guy ended up punching a wall. Busted his whole hand up, completely shattered. I laughed at the dozey bugger and didn’t have to put a hand on him - fight was over.
Can’t help but think if he gave a fighter the gloves, he’d have been spark out on the floor inside the 30s. Not because he’s inept, or because slipping isn’t effective, but because it isn’t effective unless you capitalise on the openings it creates. All he really proved was that not getting punched in the face is a good thing in a fight, but I could have told you that without watching the video.
[quote]Ranzo wrote:
I feel like you are over analyzing this whole thing. Not it is not a real streetfight at all. By watching the video I get the feel that they know this and set up a demonstration to show that just using head movement and evasive measures could save you lots of damage in a real fight. Im sure he put gloves on for safety reason as well as legal reasons. To me it shows just how effective it can be. Of course there are always What ifs and variables in any situation and a fighter will have to react to that. [/quote]
My point is that doesn’t represent a real fight; therefore drawing any conclusions as to the value of the technique is pointless. A demonstration should demonstrate reality, not a sport fighter showing a sporting technique in a sporting situation and then saying “here’s how to win a street fight”. They started in fighting stances, far apart and commenced at the sound of a “bell” - the complete opposite of what happens in reality.
From the youtube site:
“You can learn how to win a street fight simply by learning how to move your head! If you make your opponent miss, you stay safe and he gets tired… then it becomes easy to win a street fight.”
Yes every street fight gives you the oppotunity to bob and weave and dance round making your opponent look silly… just wait till they’re gasping for air and then bam! You get to win so easily!!!
Facepalm
Edit: Obviously not getting hit in the face is something to train for (as people have said above), my opinion is there are easier/simpler ways to do that with less risk involved and which are more likely to work under “street” conditions.
[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
^ Yep.
Slipping is useful. I slipped a haymaker the other day and the guy ended up punching a wall. Busted his whole hand up, completely shattered. I laughed at the dozey bugger and didn’t have to put a hand on him - fight was over.
Can’t help but think if he gave a fighter the gloves, he’d have been spark out on the floor inside the 30s. Not because he’s inept, or because slipping isn’t effective, but because it isn’t effective unless you capitalise on the openings it creates. All he really proved was that not getting punched in the face is a good thing in a fight, but I could have told you that without watching the video.
[/quote]
Totally agree. The big advantage that evasive head/body movements afford is that they leave both of your hands available to be used as offensive tools, and you take no damage in the process. If you don’t utilize that advantage though then they can still work (like your example of making your would be attacker miss and hit something else), but you don’t just want to dance around like the guy in the video.
Another thing to note is how most people come at you from straight on.
[quote]Kev_PL1 wrote:
Edit: Obviously not getting hit in the face is something to train for (as people have said above), my opinion is there are easier/simpler ways to do that with less risk involved and which are more likely to work under “street” conditions.[/quote]
Such as?
I was under the impression that boxing is the only real combat sport out there that actively strives to teach you how to dodge.
All the RMA stuff I’ve seen show you how to counter, which in of itself requires a great deal of skill/practice and can get messy if you fuck up.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The shit works. No lie.
And out of the punches he did get hit with, only a couple would have landed without the gloves.[/quote]
Could you imagine having to box Mayweather outside of a ring (inside too, ha) where he can move in as big of an area as he wanted. No ropes keeping him in a ring, it would be so one sided that it isn’t even funny.
[quote]Kev_PL1 wrote:
[quote]Ranzo wrote:
I feel like you are over analyzing this whole thing. Not it is not a real streetfight at all. By watching the video I get the feel that they know this and set up a demonstration to show that just using head movement and evasive measures could save you lots of damage in a real fight. Im sure he put gloves on for safety reason as well as legal reasons. To me it shows just how effective it can be. Of course there are always What ifs and variables in any situation and a fighter will have to react to that. [/quote]
My point is that doesn’t represent a real fight; therefore drawing any conclusions as to the value of the technique is pointless. A demonstration should demonstrate reality, not a sport fighter showing a sporting technique in a sporting situation and then saying “here’s how to win a street fight”. They started in fighting stances, far apart and commenced at the sound of a “bell” - the complete opposite of what happens in reality.
From the youtube site:
“You can learn how to win a street fight simply by learning how to move your head! If you make your opponent miss, you stay safe and he gets tired… then it becomes easy to win a street fight.”
Yes every street fight gives you the oppotunity to bob and weave and dance round making your opponent look silly… just wait till they’re gasping for air and then bam! You get to win so easily!!!
Facepalm
Edit: Obviously not getting hit in the face is something to train for (as people have said above), my opinion is there are easier/simpler ways to do that with less risk involved and which are more likely to work under “street” conditions.[/quote]
Nothing on this planet represents a real street fight besides a real street fight. If you can’t appreciate the fact that the video is demonstrating the usefulness of boxing outside of a ring then you’re either a) stupid or b) have your RMA goggles set to high intensity.
How can anything on this planet “demonstrate reality”? Every training scenario and drill on this planet can’t “demonstrate reality” because a real fight is dynamic. Having the ability to dodge punches (irrespective of the fact that he did it for 45 seconds) is a valuable skill.
Not trying to knock on RMA practitioners but I find it ridiculous when boxing gets classed as a sport and is therefore cast away as ineffective in the street. 100m sprinting is also a sport, guess that wouldn’t work in the street because you can trip over something whilst running away…
[quote]magick wrote:
I was under the impression that boxing is the only real combat sport out there that actively strives to teach you how to dodge.
All the RMA stuff I’ve seen show you how to counter, which in of itself requires a great deal of skill/practice and can get messy if you fuck up.[/quote]
Plenty of RMA stuff teaches how to stop yourself from getting hit. Flinching is a natural reflex that doesn’t need to be trained. Slipping is great if you’re timing is perfect - a split second to early or late and you get hit. Its easy to do 1-on-1 vs an opponent not trying to actually attack you with space to move.
I don’t know what you’ve seen so I can’t comment, but in terms of countering a decent RMA focuses on avoiding the situation entirely, if you can’t avoid - hit first, if you can’t hit first then crash and enter while protecting vital organs. This relates to the reality of a street fight - sure now and again an oppotunity to slip may come up, but its rare.
Also note I think boxing is a great sport and does provide lots of advantages over most other MAs, the video is simply not highlighting the bits you could actually use the most often
[quote]WP wrote:
Nothing on this planet represents a real street fight besides a real street fight. If you can’t appreciate the fact that the video is demonstrating the usefulness of boxing outside of a ring then you’re either a) stupid or b) have your RMA goggles set to high intensity.
How can anything on this planet “demonstrate reality”? Every training scenario and drill on this planet can’t “demonstrate reality” because a real fight is dynamic. Having the ability to dodge punches (irrespective of the fact that he did it for 45 seconds) is a valuable skill.
Not trying to knock on RMA practitioners but I find it ridiculous when boxing gets classed as a sport and is therefore cast away as ineffective in the street. 100m sprinting is also a sport, guess that wouldn’t work in the street because you can trip over something whilst running away…[/quote]
Demontrate reailty is as simple as changing the video to fit my first post. If you can’t see that then you’re stupid. I’ll say it again - it shows sporting moves working in a sporting context, not the reality of a real street fight.
[quote]Kev_PL1 wrote:
[quote]WP wrote:
Nothing on this planet represents a real street fight besides a real street fight. If you can’t appreciate the fact that the video is demonstrating the usefulness of boxing outside of a ring then you’re either a) stupid or b) have your RMA goggles set to high intensity.
How can anything on this planet “demonstrate reality”? Every training scenario and drill on this planet can’t “demonstrate reality” because a real fight is dynamic. Having the ability to dodge punches (irrespective of the fact that he did it for 45 seconds) is a valuable skill.
Not trying to knock on RMA practitioners but I find it ridiculous when boxing gets classed as a sport and is therefore cast away as ineffective in the street. 100m sprinting is also a sport, guess that wouldn’t work in the street because you can trip over something whilst running away…[/quote]
Demontrate reailty is as simple as changing the video to fit my first post. If you can’t see that then you’re stupid. I’ll say it again - it shows sporting moves working in a sporting context, not the reality of a real street fight.
[/quote]
There’s no such thing as “demonstrating reality”. There’s training, then there’s fighting. I’m sorry but including takedowns knees, restricting the space, removing gloves and increasing the intensity of the attacker are things that aren’t massive game changers.
Human instinct is to punch, if bobbing and weaving can provide the instinctive ability to avoid at least negate that form of attack then I’d say that it’s pretty damn useful. Anyone who as been in fights, been around fighters or has actual experience in the real world will attest to the usefulness of boxing movement. Only people who stick to “fighting theory” would think otherwise.
EDIT: less is more.
[quote]Kev_PL1 wrote:
Flinching is a natural reflex that doesn’t need to be trained. Slipping is great if you’re timing is perfect - a split second to early or late and you get hit. Its easy to do 1-on-1 vs an opponent not trying to actually attack you with space to move.
[/quote]
Wholly untrue. Flinching is natural, but it rarely keeps you from getting hit, and if your argument against learning to slip is that you can’t suck at it if you want to do it - well no shit.
It’s not nearly so much about timing as it is about seeing where the punch is coming from and moving out of the way. It ain’t magic. And 98 percent of RMAs are not going to teach it to the level that boxing does. They’re too busy adding “tools to their toolbox” (for you Sento 
)
This was a demonstration, nothing more, so I’m not sure what your hard-on with it is. By all means though, don’t move your head in a fight. Prove this dude wrong. Just remember it when you’re picking your teeth up off the ground after you wake up.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Wholly untrue. Flinching is natural, but it rarely keeps you from getting hit, and if your argument against learning to slip is that you can’t suck at it if you want to do it - well no shit.
It’s not nearly so much about timing as it is about seeing where the punch is coming from and moving out of the way. It ain’t magic. And 98 percent of RMAs are not going to teach it to the level that boxing does. They’re too busy adding “tools to their toolbox” (for you Sento )
This was a demonstration, nothing more, so I’m not sure what your hard-on with it is. By all means though, don’t move your head in a fight. Prove this dude wrong. Just remember it when you’re picking your teeth up off the ground after you wake up.[/quote]
Yep. In fact, you have to kind of decondition the flinch reflex in order to slip effectively. When you’re in range, you need to have sort of a “deer in the headlights” look…eyes wide open-not shutting your eyes and blinding yourself.
[quote]WP wrote:
I’m sorry but including takedowns knees, restricting the space, removing gloves and increasing the intensity of the attacker are things that aren’t massive game changers. [/quote]
Are you serious? Ok good luck with that
[quote]WP wrote:
Human instinct is to punch, if bobbing and weaving can provide the instinctive ability to avoid at least negate that form of attack then I’d say that it’s pretty damn useful. [/quote]
If its instinctive you dont need to train it by definition
[quote]WP wrote:
Anyone who as been in fights, been around fighters or has actual experience in the real world will attest to the usefulness of boxing movement. Only people who stick to “fighting theory” would think otherwise.
[/quote]
The opposite: anyone who has been in fights, been around fighters or has actual experience in the real world will attest how little they actually had the chance to use sporting movements in a non sporting fight