Bodypart A Day Training

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
41

Thanks for the reply Professor,

It provided a lot of good discussion, and I’m glad someone with some more experience in the Iron world could shed some light on their methodology.

This is my experience,

I have found that I can make good gains just by eating (a whole hell of a lot) and lifting to gain strength. The key to whether I gain weight, get ‘cut’, or stay the same while still gaining strength is my diet and how I recovery.

If I recover just as ‘hard’ as I train I can make incredible gains and train every day (while it’s “gpp” it’s still training and it’s still vigorous- Tabata Dbell clean and jerks are no joke).

If i take the time to have epsom salt baths, get a massage (even if it’s just a massage tool/chair), stretch, ice body parts, sit in the sauna, etc I can set PR’s faster than otherwise.

Recovery and Diet have become more important than what particular training program I’m on. I naturally gravitate more towards a westside type protocal and lifting heavier, 53 for 2 different exercises for one movement (comes out to 103 but without the boredom factor).

Personally Professor, I prefer to train movements not muscles. Vertical, Horizontal, Pulling, Pushing, etc.

Of course I’m not training specifically for my physique (though it’s a huge benefit), but for strength/combat sports.

I’m curious…what advice you would give a Newbie as far as training plans (weights, diet, recovery, etc)??? Anything different from what we’re used to hearing… (compound lifts, eat, sleep).

Also, so incline presses really helped your ‘upper’ chest? I always though that “upper” chest was a misnomer (according to gray’s anatomy) and that it was just inner and outter pectoral muscles. Because My ‘upper’ portion lag’s as your’s once did.

Anyway, I’m sorry to turn this into Q&A with The Professor, but I’m just curious- you seem like an old member who got the results he was seeking, which is something I don’t find a lot of around here. (old timer AND got results)

Thanks for the replies X,

-XenNova

42

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:

I’m curious…what advice you would give a Newbie as far as training plans (weights, diet, recovery, etc)??? Anything different from what we’re used to hearing… (compound lifts, eat, sleep).[/quote]

How about “keep it simple”? You don’t need a PhD to be able to make great progress in bodybuilding. There are people with IQ’s close to that of a cucumber who will surpass the majority of the self proclaimed brainiacs on this forum out of sheer will and determination to reach a goal. The greatest factors that need to be toggled are increasing the weight used, eating enough to gain weight, grouping body parts together so that you aren’t training any specific group 300 times in one week, and using your rep range performed with your heaviest weight as a guide for when to increase the weight yet again.

If you need to take time off every 3rd week because your joints hurt that bad, it is clear to most people that you might be training wrong. Joint pain is not the norm unless you are doing something that can promote injury. If you are just starting this game and you are already doing that much damage to yourself, there is no way this can be a life long pursuit.

[quote]
Also, so incline presses really helped your ‘upper’ chest? I always though that “upper” chest was a misnomer (according to gray’s anatomy) and that it was just inner and outter pectoral muscles. Because My ‘upper’ portion lag’s as your’s once did.[/quote]

No, “outer chest” and “inner chest” are misnomers. Upper chest has its significance because of the wide area that the pectoralis major takes up as it fans across the sternum and clavicles. This is why you can train your “upper traps” while neglecting the bottom portion…because it inserts nearly half way down your back. Also, the pectoralis minor is more prominant in some people than others and crosses behind the pec major closer to the upper portion.(keep in mind that while we all have the same muscles, veins and arteries, there are some small differences in shape and insertion points of muscle groups). If this is the case, then inclines would help the individual more to bring fullness to their upper chest than just doing flat bench press movements. This is because the pec minor sits behind the pec major closer to the clavicles.

43

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Since when were we talking about powerlifting? Nothing I have written is in relation to powerlifting. In powerlifting, the goal is to get the weight up…period. That has much to do with technique, neurological adaptation and strength development. Bodybuilding contains the strength aspect, but due to overall diet and higher rep ranges (beyond the point of maxing out), the goal is muscle growth and size gains as well. I don’t see how you got confused on that.[/quote]

Um, this is what I asked and you answered 2 days ago:

Professor X wrote:
mertdawg wrote:

By the way, if your goal was to improve your powerlifting style bench press, would you still use the same protocol-pyrimiding up to a single heavy set of 3-6 reps? Just wondering.

Yes, and I still think you are missing the point…

OK, now that you have told me how your system “feels”, what progress are you making physically? How much weight have you gained? How much has your strength incrteased? I don’t have joint problems nor do I have any tendon problems. I never considered myself that much of a genetic mutant to have avoided all of these problems that some of you seem to have. I trained with guys in college who recovered even faster than I do. If someone was having all of these issues, I would immediately look at their overall form during these movements. It sounds like either you are performing some of these exercises in ways that promote injury, or your recovery and immune system is compromised…in which case I would look at diet.[/quote]

44


So for progress, I went from 198 to 215 between 11-28 and 2-6 (10 weeks). Granted, I had been 200-205 before I had knee surgery, but never over 205, so it was at least 10 pounds of new (mostly) muscle, and with bodyfat maybe a little lower at 2-6 than pre surgery.

45

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

Um, this is what I asked and you answered 2 days ago:

Professor X wrote:
mertdawg wrote:

By the way, if your goal was to improve your powerlifting style bench press, would you still use the same protocol-pyrimiding up to a single heavy set of 3-6 reps? Just wondering.

Yes, and I still think you are missing the point…[/quote]

…and um, here is what you just wrote yesterday,

Your rep ranges are now changing and 3 reps is not like 8 reps. Are you training for powerlifting or are you just asking random questions about it? I use to train more as a powerlifter and we still tried for more than one rep. If the goal was see if you could get the weight up 3 times, that isn’t the same as ending your very last set at 5-8 reps.

46

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
So for progress, I went from 198 to 215 between 11-28 and 2-6 (10 weeks). Granted, I had been 200-205 before I had knee surgery, but never over 205, so it was at least 10 pounds of new (mostly) muscle, and with bodyfat maybe a little lower at 2-6 than pre surgery.[/quote]

How old are you? You mention joint problems. Is this normal for you to experience this?

47

[quote]Professor X wrote:
mertdawg wrote:

Um, this is what I asked and you answered 2 days ago:

Professor X wrote:
mertdawg wrote:

By the way, if your goal was to improve your powerlifting style bench press, would you still use the same protocol-pyrimiding up to a single heavy set of 3-6 reps? Just wondering.

Yes, and I still think you are missing the point…

…and um, here is what you just wrote yesterday,

It just seems like your saying that every powerlifter should be pyramiding up to a heavy set of 5-8 reps.
[/quote]

Well, I was asking if you would use the same protocol you had just described in you workout, and at the time I thought you said your heaviest set ended up in the 3-6 rep range, but later you said you would usually try to work up to 8 on your heaviest set. Still, you had just posted your workout and I asked if you would use the same protocol for powerlifting. I am not trying to be contentious, I just don’t want to waste time here.

As for age and joints-I am 34. I should have said that I get tendinitis in a couple of spots after 3 weeks of powerlifting. I used to just keep going, but I will now do heavy, stricter exercises like incline/decline dumbell presses with a slower lowering and try to gun for a max set of around 6.

I get tendinitis in my left tricep, and sometimes in my right wrist (hmmm) and after 3 weeks of heavy squatting I get a general dull soreness deep in the lower back.

I will be benching/squatting heavy 2x/week each though but I do NOT get results from heavy benching or squatting 1x/week.

I’m pretty sure that hip flexor inflexibility is related to the back soreness. Its not like I can’t squat due to pain. Its just that I’ll add 10-15 pounds to my PR squat in 3 weeks and then gain nothing for a month. If I do something else for a month and then come back, I can usually get back to my max in two weeks, top it in three and then switch.

48

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
It just seems like your saying that every powerlifter should be pyramiding up to a heavy set of 5-8 reps, that all that Louie Simmons and Olympic lifters say about strength is wrong.[/quote]

And just to be clear, why do you assume that everyone who lifts weights follows the words of Louie Simmons? If you are going to argue a specific point, present it and argue it. I don’t follow Louie Simmons and don’t see the need to in my training.

49

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
And here’s the thing. Tendons have one primary biological function-to reflexively inhibit or excite muscle contraction. I just think the heavier loads done faster train them to excite rather than inhibit at a given threshold. [/quote]

Also, I think you are giving the golgi tendon too much credit as far as it’s inhibitory effect on muscle tissue. The primary function of a tendon is simply to connect the muscle belly to bone. Here is one reference which disagrees with your concept of how much control this organ has.

Further, if you want to argue specific points, do that. Don’t mention names of authors or trainers as if everyone in bodybuilding actually gives a damn what every other personal trainer thinks. You are mentioning people that I have not heard of and don’t feel the need to know anything about.

50

Thanks for the insights!

51

Not that I’m a doctor like X, and not that I can claim any sort of expertise here, but I do have to say I believe he’s right on here. Tendons are the same tissue as the muscles, aren’t they? All they are is the places where the muscles attach, like X said.
A lot of the so called tendon reflexes are all in a trainees head.

52

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Not that I’m a doctor like X, and not that I can claim any sort of expertise here, but I do have to say I believe he’s right on here. Tendons are the same tissue as the muscles, aren’t they? All they are is the places where the muscles attach, like X said.
A lot of the so called tendon reflexes are all in a trainees head. [/quote]

They aren’t the same tissue, but I think he was confusing the GOLGI tendon with the actual tendon. You have little organs inside of tendons that respond to stretch and force and react by either causing a muscle to fail or to contract in “emergency” situations. For instance, let’s say I drop a 90lbs dumbbell into your right hand. Chances are, unless you are very strong, you will possibly attempt to catch it, but your muscle will fail and the weight will drop. That is due to the golgi tendon organ. Let’s say I grab your arm and yank it down. You react by contracting your biceps and pulling away. This is the same response. It is a safety feature naturally built into your tendons in order to keep you from allowing your muscle to be ripped off their attachment. One more complex reason that I believe that the human body is too complex to have happened by chance or simple evolution…but that is another argument.

53

Theory is that over the years with various insults the tendons become tight which causes pain etc.
If you re-set the receptor in the tendon you can ease the pain or even spastic muscle tightness associated with it (I know this from personal experience).
The guy that taught me this is the one that told me they’re the same basic tissue. I don’t know–what I do know is that his theory has eased pain I’ve suffered for 20 years and given back movement.
When I said a lot of “so called golgi response” was between the ears what I meant wasn’t to denegrate the true Golgi response, but rather to say the mind is the first limiter.

54

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Theory is that over the years with various insults the tendons become tight which causes pain etc.
If you re-set the receptor in the tendon you can ease the pain or even spastic muscle tightness associated with it (I know this from personal experience).
The guy that taught me this is the one that told me they’re the same basic tissue. I don’t know–what I do know is that his theory has eased pain I’ve suffered for 20 years and given back movement.
When I said a lot of “so called golgi response” was between the ears what I meant wasn’t to denegrate the true Golgi response, but rather to say the mind is the first limiter.[/quote]

I agree with you. In short, it isn’t much different than using fascial stretching techniques for the same purpose. I am not sure how some are relating this to training though as far as the results seen in the gym.

55

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, I think you are giving the golgi tendon too much credit as far as it’s inhibitory effect on muscle tissue. The primary function of a tendon is simply to connect the muscle belly to bone. Here is one reference which disagrees with your concept of how much control this organ has.

Further, if you want to argue specific points, do that. Don’t mention names of authors or trainers as if everyone in bodybuilding actually gives a damn what every other personal trainer thinks. You are mentioning people that I have not heard of and don’t feel the need to know anything about.[/quote]

So the article basically says that its the muscle spindle rather than golgi tendon. Good information, but still suggests great reflexive inhibition (just not from Golgi). The Russian studies showed that reflexive inhibition of at least 20% during maximal relatively slow movements versus near maximal movements pushed hard, and another 10-20% boost when the movement ws made plyometric (not track plyometrics but just a quick touch and go) I also saw a study that EMG analysis showed that someone max benching 300 exerts about 20% more (360) to reverse the weight (because of deceleration and acceleration at reversal) When that person goes above 300, contraction gets shut down.

Who did I mention who you haven’t heard of again: Ed Coan or Dorian Yates? I think thats all I mentioned. It would be amazing if you haven;t heard of Dorian Yates because your training is almost set for set on with what he did when he was winning the Olympia.

Also, I don’t thing reflexes are a strong case for intelligent design (just an opinion). Reflexes keep you from killing yourself and are almost the ideal case for demonstrating Darwinian Evolution.

But, if you want a couple good ones for Intelligent Design:

  1. If a mouse eye gene is placed into a genetically eyeless fly egg, the fly will grow fly eyes even though mice are deuterostomates and flys are protostomates and their respective eyes were therefore not considered homologues.

  2. some bacteria take in iron crystals which act as a compass to keep them pointing down to where the food is. There is some evidence that the cellular mechanism that they use to incorporate and mineralize iron is the same original chemical process that eventually allowed vertebrates/molluscs to incorporate and mineralize calcium.

56

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
So the article basically says that its the muscle spindle rather than golgi tendon. Good information, but still suggests great reflexive inhibition (just not from Golgi). The Russian studies showed that reflexive inhibition of at least 20% during maximal relatively slow movements versus near maximal movements pushed hard, and another 10-20% boost when the movement ws made plyometric (not track plyometrics but just a quick touch and go) I also saw a study that EMG analysis showed that someone max benching 300 exerts about 20% more (360) to reverse the weight (because of deceleration and acceleration at reversal) When that person goes above 300, contraction gets shut down.[/quote]

First, I wrote the name of the person I was not familiar with. Why you went off to Ed and Dorian I am not completely sure.

Second, your attempt to explain that bit of science is lacking a little in the clarity department. Are you saying that a 20% “reflexive inhibition” should change the way someone trains? Could you be more clear in the point you are trying to make?

I am not here to argue with you, but I will definitely debate with you given the opportunity. I still don’t see the point you are making as far as how this affects my training or even yours. Your body has protective responses to stimuli. What’s the big deal?

57

there have been a couple of posts lately about getting used to big weights if you have a potential Golgi problem by say standing with knees slightly bent with a heavy bar on your shoulders.
I don’t really understand it myself, because if your muscles can handle the weight you’ll lift the weight…or am I way off base?

58

[quote]Professor X wrote:
First, I wrote the name of the person I was not familiar with. Why you went off to Ed and Dorian I am not completely sure.[/quote]

Who was whom? I can only find three people who I mentioned (Yates, Coan and Simmons) and you said you were unfamiliar with someone. The only person you named of the three I mentioned was Simmons and you implied that you were familiar with him. Honestly, I just don’t see who I named as a trainer who you were unfamiliar with. Maybe you saw a post on another thread where I mentioned Jim Parrish? I tried not to mention him here because I assumed you might not know who he was.

[quote]
Second, your attempt to explain that bit of science is lacking a little in the clarity department. Are you saying that a 20% “reflexive inhibition” should change the way someone trains? Could you be more clear in the point you are trying to make?[/quote]

Yea. I’m saying that if I need 300 pounds for reps of a certain exercise to make gains, but my tendons or apparently muscle spindle shut down contraction at 275 for a given number of reps, then at that point I would experience a plateau. Its similar to sprinters reaching the point where they are unable to improve speed by simply trying to sprint flat ground as fast as possible, but CAN get faster with overspeed and slightly resisted sprints. If I can train heavy so that my reflexes allow me to do 310 for reps I will make progress again. I think that most trainees have found that at some point, pure progressive resistace training stops working. I think this happens because the stimulus is no longer enough to cause adaptation. Then I think you ramp your reflexes to the next level. I just believe that given hard work, this is the cause of plateaus and that people vary a lot in what there reflexes will allow voluntarily [/quote]

[quote]
I am not here to argue with you, but I will definitely debate with you given the opportunity. I still don’t see the point you are making as far as how this affects my training or even yours. Your body has protective responses to stimuli. What’s the big deal?[/quote]

I’m just going to ask, do you think its possible that what’s best for building muscle directly does not necessarily cause adaptations in protective reflexes, and don’t you think that someone might reach a point where there reflexes keep them from voluntarily flexing hard enough to build muscle? Its an alternative theory to why people have a limit on how big their muscles get-the current model being that at some point the body just can’t metabolically support more muscle tissue (which to me is unsatisfactory and not consistent with growth of other organs).

If someone’s goal is to add muscle, and they are still adding muscle then it doesn’t matter.

My motivation: I was interested in why I never got apparent results training1 muscle or group a day once a week even though I tried to give every set 100%. I did better when I tried 2-3 short workouts per bodypart and even better when I went from 1-2 sets in the 6-10 rep range to 4-6 heavier sets of 3. I thought if I looked at your training I might be able to see why it didn’t work as well for me.

59

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Who was whom? I can only find three people who I [/quote]

It was Simmons and I never implied that I knew anything about him.

I have never experienced this or known anyone who experienced being unable to move a weight simply because of their golgi tendon reflex. If you simply can’t make gains past 275lbs and can’t get any stronger (which to me seems extremely weak in the “plateaued growth” department) then possibly that is your genetic limit. I have never heard anyone blame their inability to get stronger on their tendons and, to tell the abolute truth, it sounds like a cop out. This is a protective response. You bypass that by simply gradually moving up in weight instead of handing a 12 year old a 300lbs dumbbell and telling them to get to work. I would have the individual use half weight plates if possible to gradually provide more stimulus, but to blame their cease in growth on their tendon reflex is a new one. Are you honestly telling me that there are people out there who reach a plateau and then blame their golgi tendons? Not genetics? Not food intake? Not routine structure? But golgi tendons?

[quote]
I’m just going to ask, do you think its possible that what’s best for building muscle directly does not necessarily cause adaptations in protective reflexes, and don’t you think that someone might reach a point where there reflexes keep them from voluntarily flexing hard enough to build muscle? Its an alternative theory to why people have a limit on how big their muscles get-the current model being that at some point the body just can’t metabolically support more muscle tissue (which to me is unsatisfactory and not consistent with growth of other organs).[/quote]

No, I don’t think that is possible. It sounds like something dreamed up by someone who was pissed because their genes didn’t match up to someone else’s. That is my honest opinion.

[quote]
My motivation: I was interested in why I never got apparent results training1 muscle or group a day once a week even though I tried to give every set 100%. I did better when I tried 2-3 short workouts per bodypart and even better when I went from 1-2 sets in the 6-10 rep range to 4-6 heavier sets of 3. I thought if I looked at your training I might be able to see why it didn’t work as well for me.[/quote]

Just a quick question, why do you assume that your body is genetically predisposed to carry any more muscle naturally than it presently is? Do you understand that there are peole out there who are simply designed to carry a shit load of muscle on their frame? The guys in my family are pretty damn big. I seem to have taken after my mother until I graduated high school (she was 95lbs when she got married). The guys on my dad’s side of the family could be bouncers or linemen naturally with little training. Without regular weight training, my dad weighed about 205lbs in the military during Viet Nam and he is only about 5’9". No, I think your interest in the golgi tendon, while insightful, is misguided. Whether some study proves me wrong 30 years from now is another story.

60

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have never experienced this or known anyone who experienced being unable to move a weight simply because of their golgi tendon reflex. If you simply can’t make gains past 275lbs and can’t get any stronger (which to me seems extremely weak in the “plateaued growth” department) then possibly that is your genetic limit. [/quote]

I used 275 as an example weight and didn’t specify the exercise. At one point I got stuck at 6 reps at 255 in the bench. I pyramided up once a week and for about 5 weeks 255 x 6 and failed on the 7th. I know, it may sound mental, but I made a radical change and decide to do 5 triples at 255, and bench 2x/week. I added 5 pounds every week up to 295. At that point I did 295 x 6 (in about 2 months). Then I stalled with 5x3 at 295 for weeks. I got injured but got back to 5 x 3 at 295 and stalled again. I decided to use doubled bands with bar weight for 5 x 3 2x/week and added 5 pounds to the bar with the same bands. After 6 weeks I got 335 x 6. I am just not sure how to interpret this. In a total of those 10 weeks I went from 255 x 6 to 335 x 6. In between I got nothing. Again, not sure how to interpret it. I do lift alone in a power rack and if I had someone to spot me and help me with a slightly assisted rep or two, maybe that would have worked as well.

[quote]
I have never heard anyone blame their inability to get stronger on their tendons and, to tell the abolute truth, it sounds like a cop out. This is a protective response. You bypass that by simply gradually moving up in weight instead of handing a 12 year old a 300lbs dumbbell and telling them to get to work. I would have the individual use half weight plates if possible to gradually provide more stimulus, but to blame their cease in growth on their tendon reflex is a new one. Are you honestly telling me that there are people out there who reach a plateau and then blame their golgi tendons? [/quote]

I won’t go too deep into Louie Simmons training, or Jim Parrish, or Soviet shock plyometrics. I know its not your goal and you can research them if your interested, and its not exactly how I train, but the big thing in powerlifting is to use submaximal weights (textbook 60% of your max) for 8-10 sets of 3, but to try to explode as fast as possible, with the idea that you produce more force (mass x acceleration) because there is less neural inhibition. In fact, almost every powerlifter out there has gone away from straight progressive resistance to explosives or shock loading partial reps on the main lifts. This was a revolution about 10 years ago (although Simmons was before that) when it started to gain popularity. People started talking about taking squats stuck at 700 for 5 years up to 900+ in two years with this method. The next revolution was bands, but because learning how to use all out gear became much more important the shift in the last 2-3 years has been to train in maximal gear to learn how to use it. I would have to say that outside of the new focus on gear training, in response to your question I am honestly telling you that most powerlifters today credit their further increases in strength to reflexive mechanisms. Again from the study you showed, its probably more a matter of the spindle reflex than the tendon which may prove to be useful, and if not at least interesting information. Just to be clear, the main adaptation to powerlifting training after the first few years comes from increasing the rate at which motor units fire, and the synchronization of firing. In fact, the tension in an individual fiber may be the same for a powerlifter when he is benching 400 as when he gets to 600, but sum of all motor units goes up because more are firing simultaneously at any given time.

[quote]
Just a quick question, why do you assume that your body is genetically predisposed to carry any more muscle naturally than it presently is? Do you understand that there are people out there who are simply designed to carry a shit load of muscle on their frame? The guys in my family are pretty damn big.[/quote]

Not sure. I’m 5-8 215 and probably would be 200 in real good shape. As for genetics, here’s the rundown of my male relatives: My dad’s dad was 6-4 300, overweight but strong as hell. They wouldn’t let him into the army because he had polio as a kid, but had no signs that he had ever had it. My dad is 6-2 270, overweight but strong, his two brothers are 6-0 320 and 6-4 280 the second one being a grand master of traditional sho-do-kan karate. My moms dad died of Rheumatic heart disease in his thirties. He was short 5-6 but had bodybuilder type thighs structurally (so does my mom, but I don’t want to think about that). I did get their legs though. My moms brother was 6-2 185 naturally lean but a world class rower in several categories. My brothers are
6-4 290 (strong but never reached his potential because of bad knees due to football trauma) and 6-2 180 but training for national level Karate competition. He weighed 80 pounds the day he walked into highschool and couldn’t bench the bar once. He’s not naturally strong but benches about 220 and deadlifts 375 as supplements to his training and can do 30 strict pull-ups.

When I was 19, I dieted down to 153 and over 8 years of stupid training built up to 177. Then since 27 (7 years ago) I have added another 38 pounds to 215 and in my case the bodyfat has been almost the same during those 15 years. I would be happy at 215-220 in great shape and don’t care to get bigger, but at
5-8 I think that’s pretty big.

I am curious-how do you particularly figure out the optimal frequency for you to train a bodypart? Do you train on a weekly cycle by convention or convenience or have you ever tried 5 or 6 days, or 8 or 9 for that matter?

Thanks for the responses.