Bodybuilding Sucks!

[quote]Professor X wrote:
theirondoc wrote:
I agree and I disagree with all of you. Let me restate my points.
A. Yes, at least they are there doing something, and that is good. But if I am doing my job as a personal trainer I am trying to teach them to be more efficient about it.

B. I never said these people or anyone for that matter should start powerlifting. I said they should lift enough weight to at least get the big muscles working. Hell, getting up out of a chair is at least a bodyweight squat. This is not unhealthy as some of you have stated. But 5 lb. d/b curls aren’t going to get the job done (increasing metabolism to lose weight, getting stronger to increase bone mass or maintain some muscle as they age).

C. My problem with bodybuilding is that most newbies only associate lifting weights (I didn’t say weight lifting) with bodybuilding and are immediately convinced that some pro’s split program from Flex Magazine is going to work for them. For your average overweight, weekend warrior who hasn’t the energy to jog around the block let alone walk from the couch to the fridge, doing arms one day a week is like putting a $2000.00 sound system in a '79 Pinto, orange with a black right front quarter panel, mismatched tires and a duct tape and garbage bag rear window.

The majority of the people in gyms lately never make any progress at all. How does anyone relate that to bodybuilding? Most of those people would also claim they “don’t want to get that big”. They may be at the gym, but that doesn’t mean they are bodybuilding or that doing any other program would cause them to make progress if they barely break a sweat and think that biceps over 15" are “icky”. How do you blame BODYBUILDING for the fluff that is filling up gyms lately?[/quote]

I’d bet if you asked those people who don’t want to “get big” to pick out someone who they would like to look like, they would find that those people with perfect symetry and muscles weigh a lot more than they look. The other funny thing is that many people, especially women, believe that if they lift a heavy weight they will suddenly get huge and look like Bev Francis overnight.

Using the Brad Pitt example (bear with me) most guys would kill to look like him. But I bet he worked his ass off in the gym lifting heavy weights to get from his “Fight Club” size to his “Troy” size (check out how skinny he was in “Thelma & Louise”).

Almost nobody wants to look like Ronnie, but many think that will happen if they start lifting heavy.

Then throw in all the glossy magazine articles promising tons of muscle if you just do this simple program…

Just lift and mind your own business. I could care less what everyone else is doing in the gym.

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
Why do you care so much about what others do?

At least these people are being active, instead of sitting at home on the couch eating a bag of potato ships like most North Americans do.

Besides, power training and lifting heavy weights isn’t exactly too healthy for most people through the long run. It has it’s definite health riskes in itself. The average trainer, who may not be genetically gifted in lifting heavy weights, probably doesn’t see much reward for even attempting to do so, as their lifts at max would never be even close to high caliber trainers in the field so why even bother to try, as the trainee will be less sore, and suffer less joint ailments undoubtedly down the road[/quote]

For me i had more aches and pains when i did nothing. However, i really dig training so maybe i’m “gifted”. :slight_smile:

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Professor X wrote:
theirondoc wrote:
I agree and I disagree with all of you. Let me restate my points.
A. Yes, at least they are there doing something, and that is good. But if I am doing my job as a personal trainer I am trying to teach them to be more efficient about it.

B. I never said these people or anyone for that matter should start powerlifting. I said they should lift enough weight to at least get the big muscles working. Hell, getting up out of a chair is at least a bodyweight squat. This is not unhealthy as some of you have stated. But 5 lb. d/b curls aren’t going to get the job done (increasing metabolism to lose weight, getting stronger to increase bone mass or maintain some muscle as they age).

C. My problem with bodybuilding is that most newbies only associate lifting weights (I didn’t say weight lifting) with bodybuilding and are immediately convinced that some pro’s split program from Flex Magazine is going to work for them. For your average overweight, weekend warrior who hasn’t the energy to jog around the block let alone walk from the couch to the fridge, doing arms one day a week is like putting a $2000.00 sound system in a '79 Pinto, orange with a black right front quarter panel, mismatched tires and a duct tape and garbage bag rear window.

The majority of the people in gyms lately never make any progress at all. How does anyone relate that to bodybuilding? Most of those people would also claim they “don’t want to get that big”. They may be at the gym, but that doesn’t mean they are bodybuilding or that doing any other program would cause them to make progress if they barely break a sweat and think that biceps over 15" are “icky”. How do you blame BODYBUILDING for the fluff that is filling up gyms lately?

I’d bet if you asked those people who don’t want to “get big” to pick out someone who they would like to look like, they would find that those people with perfect symetry and muscles weigh a lot more than they look. The other funny thing is that many people, especially women, believe that if they lift a heavy weight they will suddenly get huge and look like Bev Francis overnight.

Using the Brad Pitt example (bear with me) most guys would kill to look like him. But I bet he worked his ass off in the gym lifting heavy weights to get from his “Fight Club” size to his “Troy” size (check out how skinny he was in “Thelma & Louise”).

Almost nobody wants to look like Ronnie, but many think that will happen if they start lifting heavy.

Then throw in all the glossy magazine articles promising tons of muscle if you just do this simple program…

Just lift and mind your own business. I could care less what everyone else is doing in the gym. [/quote]

I will bet Brad discovered steriods
between fight club and troy

So encourage those that are wasting their time to do better - not make fun of them.

Show those who are in the way - the right way.

If someone is doing the best that they can - then it’s the best they’ve got - encourage them so they can get better.

I can see how irritating some guy with little pink dumbells taking up the squat rack is when you need the squat rack. Show him where the dumbell workout section is actually at.

I was once the 300 pounder who could bench press 40 pounds, who could only walk 1/8 of a mile without having to sit down and rest. I’m not that guy anymore. I’m no where near the strength or physique of many on this or any other bodybuilding/powerlifting board, but I’m much more fit than most of the general population. I’m the worst bodybuilder in history and the worst triathlete in history - but I do constantly work on making gains in strength, size, and endurance - and that is the point…for me.

I reccomend if you see that 300 pounder, pat him on the back for being there, say something like, “tough ain’t it? Hang in there”.

Where I run at - I saw an old guy - at least 90 years old on a walker. Other runners were bitching because he was in the way - and he was in the way. So what - he was improving himself, go around. Instead of 25 yards on the walker - his starting point - by the end of last summer he was getting a mile - still using that walker, but at home - he was able to walk to the bathroom on his own - big improvement. Everytime I’d see him I’d try to encourage him to keep going as I ran by. If we were finished or starting out at the same time, I’d tell him he was an inspiration…that helped motivate him to keep going.

[quote]vagrant wrote:
So encourage those that are wasting their time to do better - not make fun of them.

Show those who are in the way - the right way.

If someone is doing the best that they can - then it’s the best they’ve got - encourage them so they can get better.

I can see how irritating some guy with little pink dumbells taking up the squat rack is when you need the squat rack. Show him where the dumbell workout section is actually at.

I was once the 300 pounder who could bench press 40 pounds, who could only walk 1/8 of a mile without having to sit down and rest. I’m not that guy anymore. I’m no where near the strength or physique of many on this or any other bodybuilding/powerlifting board, but I’m much more fit than most of the general population. I’m the worst bodybuilder in history and the worst triathlete in history - but I do constantly work on making gains in strength, size, and endurance - and that is the point…for me.

I reccomend if you see that 300 pounder, pat him on the back for being there, say something like, “tough ain’t it? Hang in there”.

Where I run at - I saw an old guy - at least 90 years old on a walker. Other runners were bitching because he was in the way - and he was in the way. So what - he was improving himself, go around. Instead of 25 yards on the walker - his starting point - by the end of last summer he was getting a mile - still using that walker, but at home - he was able to walk to the bathroom on his own - big improvement. Everytime I’d see him I’d try to encourage him to keep going as I ran by. If we were finished or starting out at the same time, I’d tell him he was an inspiration…that helped motivate him to keep going.[/quote]

Awesome post.

The really irritating this is the crap coming out of the aerobics room from the “certified instructors”

-NEVER squat below parallel.
-NEVER let your knees go beyond your toes.
-If you feel ANY pain, stop.
-Deadlifts will destroy your back.
-Do EVERYTHING slow and controlled.
-Light weights burn fat and “tone” the muscles.
-Muscle turns to fat when you get old.
-Don’t exert yourself.
-On and on and on…

I was helping my mother out one day in the gym. She is very active and is a regular in the aerobics classes. She wanted to start a light lifting program and asked me to help. One of the exercises I had her try is the DB squat with light weight. SHe was doing just fine and actually enjoyed the exercise when out of nowhere some woman stormed over and told us how bad it was, that squatting is horrible, blah, blah (I mean she was upset!). She suggested, no shit, that we do squats against the wall with a swiss ball behind our back.

It’s the jerks that feel they have to butt in or consider themselves the Yoda of all things fitness that piss me off. That’s part of the problem, too many experts with different philosophies each claiming all the others are wrong. It’s confusing and intimidating to the novice.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
The really irritating this is the crap coming out of the aerobics room from the “certified instructors”

-NEVER squat below parallel.
-NEVER let your knees go beyond your toes.
-If you feel ANY pain, stop.
-Deadlifts will destroy your back.
-Do EVERYTHING slow and controlled.
-Light weights burn fat and “tone” the muscles.
-Muscle turns to fat when you get old.
-Don’t exert yourself.
-On and on and on…

I was helping my mother out one day in the gym. She is very active and is a regular in the aerobics classes. She wanted to start a light lifting program and asked me to help. One of the exercises I had her try is the DB squat with light weight. SHe was doing just fine and actually enjoyed the exercise when out of nowhere some woman stormed over and told us how bad it was, that squatting is horrible, blah, blah (I mean she was upset!). She suggested, no shit, that we do squats against the wall with a swiss ball behind our back.

It’s the jerks that feel they have to butt in or consider themselves the Yoda of all things fitness that piss me off. That’s part of the problem, too many experts with different philosophies each claiming all the others are wrong. It’s confusing and intimidating to the novice.
[/quote]

You should have asked her what you’re supposed to do if ever you drop some change on the street and didnt have a swiss ball handy to pick it up.

yep bodybuilding does suck!

A very interesting article written by Bob Whelan describes the current sorry state of bodybuilding or as Harry Paschal would call it booby-building AHAHAHAHAHAH.
I really like this article read it and tell me what you think

THE ANATOMY OF STRENGTH

By Bob Whelan

Posted on NaturalStrength.com on August 24, 1999

Reprinted with permission of The Iron Master

The words, “strength” and “muscle” are loosely and falsely used these days. They usually have more to do with cosmetics than anything functional. Some of the worst offenders are the media and the so called “fitness pros.” It is their influence that is unfortunately getting many well intentioned beginners off to a bad start. They have helped to create a generation of toners and underachievers. In the old days, people knew what it meant to be strong. Louis Cyr, George Hackenschmidt, Thomas Inch and Paul Anderson were strong! Most “regular” people back then were not strong, but the point is they did not “pretend” to be! Today, we do have some enormously strong and muscular guys but many (or most) of them are drug users. I am not talking about them or the few natural hard-core types that are left. I am talking about the mass epidemic of toners and the low standards of strength and muscle that they have “learned” and have been “trained” to accept.

The “politically correct” climate of today tends to de-emphasize anything masculine. Since strength and manhood have a close historical connection, the definition of the terms strength and muscle have been cleverly repackaged. People have been brainwashed to associate being “defined,” “cut,” “ripped” (or simply having a low body fat percentage) with being strong and muscular. With this new definition, all sorts of gimmicks can now be targeted to men and women of all ages. The term strength, properly used, could describe a 500 pound squat. Being strong is not to, “look like the latest Hollywood stud on the nightly tabloid show.” Due to the fitness craze, the standard to be called strong is at an all-time low.

The terms “strong” and “muscular” today, are indeed commonly used to define only a certain look or image. Movie and soap stars are called strong when they are nothing but abs, low bodyfat and a tan. These “estrogen men” are described as strong and muscular when it really has more to do with their image than how much weight they can lift! If we could see their training poundages, it could be a new comedy series! If I see another TV commercial for exercise videos that describe aerobic training with 3 pound dumbbells as “strength training,” I am going to vomit! Why do those aerobics instructors with 9 inch arms like to flex so much?

Strength is correctly defined as, “the ability to produce force.” When you acquire this ability, you build strong thick muscles that can’t be missed. You also build thickness of the ligaments, tendons and bones – your tan and bodyfat percentage are irrelevant! No matter what you wear or what angle you are seen, you look strong; it is unmistakable! You look as powerful in a raincoat as in a tanktop. You look as massive from behind as you do from the front. A properly trained strongman is thick from a sideview. Heavy pushing and pulling consistently done over the years has added inches to the front and back of the torso, hips and legs – when toners are seen from a side view, they disappear! Strongmen are unable to hide the fact that they look strong. Because of this confidence, they walk around relaxed and graceful. Not like the stiff insecure “pumpers” who try to look flexed at all times. These are the idiots who give us a bad name. They give the impression to the general public that it is because they train with weights, that they are so stiff and awkward.

Strongmen loathe “toner type training.” We enjoy being labeled radical, crazy, dangerous, and viewed as “outlaws” by the General fitness field who are nothing more than a bureaucracy of toners. We proudly build our muscles the old fashioned way, primarily by the use of heavy multi-joint exercises. These exercises (the basics) are by far the toughest ones to perform. Exercises such as the deadlift, squat, bench press, incline press, overhead presses, pulldowns, chins, various types of rowing and odd object lifting. Most modern “sensitive types” don’t like to perform these movements and will give you every excuse in the world to tell you why they don’t (or won’t) do them. The real reason is that they are wimps! They have surrendered to a powerful sickening trend. It is a growing, media encouraged, psycho/social disease that is hard to explain, but we all can see it; it’s the “feminization” of the American male. Incredibly, these wimps have become the majority and their attitude the “norm!”

You can spot the wimps who avoid the basic multi-joint exercises a mile away. These individuals train almost exclusively on isolation exercises and show it by their uneven muscular development. They usually don’t work their legs and only like to train their arms or chest. Their muscles do not blend or seem to belong together. They usually have one good body part that stands out and appears to have been surgically transplanted to a normal body (Usually big arms connected to a rib-cage.) The two favorite exercises of these toner types are curls and cable crossovers – they can look in the mirror for both. They like to squeeze and feel comfortable poundages – they make long-term commitments and have stable relationships with their poundages! They are dumbfounded when you ask them about progression. They don’t have a clue as to the meaning of strength, Just the thought of squatting frightens them. They don’t want to lift too heavy because they are afraid they might get “TOO BIG!”

Strongmen love to train hard. We love to hear the clanging and rattle of heavy iron when you slap-on big plates. The harder the exercise, the more we like it. We focus on the basic movements because we know they work. When you do the basic movements your muscles work and grow together. You are naturally more symmetrical because you are training your whole body hard. If you take a look at the rugged builds of the old timers, you will notice that they had symmetry. They trained all the major muscle groups hard and heavy with a wide variety of multi-joint exercises, many of which are not commonly done today. Look at the thickness of the traps, glutes, legs, back and forearms of George Jowett! You don’t get this from toning! No matter what Jowett wore, he looked huge and powerful! When muscle and strength are correctly built you can’t hide it!

If you read some of the old muscle classics, you will frequently find mention of the word, “sinews.” We now call them tendons. To build tendon strength, you must lift heavy and pay your dues. Tendons only get thicker from heavy poundages. Toning and pumping won’t cut it. The old classics were not written for sissies like a lot of the “gentlemen’s” and “general fitness” publications of today. I honestly believe that the training information for the development of muscular size and strength was better 50 years ago that it is now. There are a few good magazines today, but they are dwarfed by the bad ones! Today, we have better “overall health” and nutritional information, by far, but for just pure strength, read some of the old books. You will be amazed at how much they knew and how right they were. They were not afraid to do singles. They enjoyed testing their strength doing a wide assortment of odd lifts. They spelled out what to do to get results and made it simple. It really is simple; the more you know, the more you can admit this!

If Hackenschmidt, Jowett, Cyr and the other old-timers could see the sorry examples of what the media and general public of today consider strong and muscular, they would be tolling on the floor laughing! Remember, when you build muscle the old fashioned way, you can’t hide it. You don’t build muscle or strength by getting a tan or going on a diet! The next time you see the latest so called “strong” or “muscular” Hollywood stud, imagine him squatting 500 pounds, and have a good laugh!

[quote]M.B wrote:
yep bodybuilding does suck!

A very interesting article written by Bob Whelan describes the current sorry state of bodybuilding or as Harry Paschal would call it booby-building AHAHAHAHAHAH.
I really like this article read it and tell me what you think

THE ANATOMY OF STRENGTH

By Bob Whelan

Posted on NaturalStrength.com on August 24, 1999

Reprinted with permission of The Iron Master

The words, “strength” and “muscle” are loosely and falsely used these days. They usually have more to do with cosmetics than anything functional. Some of the worst offenders are the media and the so called “fitness pros.” It is their influence that is unfortunately getting many well intentioned beginners off to a bad start. They have helped to create a generation of toners and underachievers. In the old days, people knew what it meant to be strong. Louis Cyr, George Hackenschmidt, Thomas Inch and Paul Anderson were strong! Most “regular” people back then were not strong, but the point is they did not “pretend” to be! Today, we do have some enormously strong and muscular guys but many (or most) of them are drug users. I am not talking about them or the few natural hard-core types that are left. I am talking about the mass epidemic of toners and the low standards of strength and muscle that they have “learned” and have been “trained” to accept.

The “politically correct” climate of today tends to de-emphasize anything masculine. Since strength and manhood have a close historical connection, the definition of the terms strength and muscle have been cleverly repackaged. People have been brainwashed to associate being “defined,” “cut,” “ripped” (or simply having a low body fat percentage) with being strong and muscular. With this new definition, all sorts of gimmicks can now be targeted to men and women of all ages. The term strength, properly used, could describe a 500 pound squat. Being strong is not to, “look like the latest Hollywood stud on the nightly tabloid show.” Due to the fitness craze, the standard to be called strong is at an all-time low.

The terms “strong” and “muscular” today, are indeed commonly used to define only a certain look or image. Movie and soap stars are called strong when they are nothing but abs, low bodyfat and a tan. These “estrogen men” are described as strong and muscular when it really has more to do with their image than how much weight they can lift! If we could see their training poundages, it could be a new comedy series! If I see another TV commercial for exercise videos that describe aerobic training with 3 pound dumbbells as “strength training,” I am going to vomit! Why do those aerobics instructors with 9 inch arms like to flex so much?

Strength is correctly defined as, “the ability to produce force.” When you acquire this ability, you build strong thick muscles that can’t be missed. You also build thickness of the ligaments, tendons and bones – your tan and bodyfat percentage are irrelevant! No matter what you wear or what angle you are seen, you look strong; it is unmistakable! You look as powerful in a raincoat as in a tanktop. You look as massive from behind as you do from the front. A properly trained strongman is thick from a sideview. Heavy pushing and pulling consistently done over the years has added inches to the front and back of the torso, hips and legs – when toners are seen from a side view, they disappear! Strongmen are unable to hide the fact that they look strong. Because of this confidence, they walk around relaxed and graceful. Not like the stiff insecure “pumpers” who try to look flexed at all times. These are the idiots who give us a bad name. They give the impression to the general public that it is because they train with weights, that they are so stiff and awkward.

Strongmen loathe “toner type training.” We enjoy being labeled radical, crazy, dangerous, and viewed as “outlaws” by the General fitness field who are nothing more than a bureaucracy of toners. We proudly build our muscles the old fashioned way, primarily by the use of heavy multi-joint exercises. These exercises (the basics) are by far the toughest ones to perform. Exercises such as the deadlift, squat, bench press, incline press, overhead presses, pulldowns, chins, various types of rowing and odd object lifting. Most modern “sensitive types” don’t like to perform these movements and will give you every excuse in the world to tell you why they don’t (or won’t) do them. The real reason is that they are wimps! They have surrendered to a powerful sickening trend. It is a growing, media encouraged, psycho/social disease that is hard to explain, but we all can see it; it’s the “feminization” of the American male. Incredibly, these wimps have become the majority and their attitude the “norm!”

You can spot the wimps who avoid the basic multi-joint exercises a mile away. These individuals train almost exclusively on isolation exercises and show it by their uneven muscular development. They usually don’t work their legs and only like to train their arms or chest. Their muscles do not blend or seem to belong together. They usually have one good body part that stands out and appears to have been surgically transplanted to a normal body (Usually big arms connected to a rib-cage.) The two favorite exercises of these toner types are curls and cable crossovers – they can look in the mirror for both. They like to squeeze and feel comfortable poundages – they make long-term commitments and have stable relationships with their poundages! They are dumbfounded when you ask them about progression. They don’t have a clue as to the meaning of strength, Just the thought of squatting frightens them. They don’t want to lift too heavy because they are afraid they might get “TOO BIG!”

Strongmen love to train hard. We love to hear the clanging and rattle of heavy iron when you slap-on big plates. The harder the exercise, the more we like it. We focus on the basic movements because we know they work. When you do the basic movements your muscles work and grow together. You are naturally more symmetrical because you are training your whole body hard. If you take a look at the rugged builds of the old timers, you will notice that they had symmetry. They trained all the major muscle groups hard and heavy with a wide variety of multi-joint exercises, many of which are not commonly done today. Look at the thickness of the traps, glutes, legs, back and forearms of George Jowett! You don’t get this from toning! No matter what Jowett wore, he looked huge and powerful! When muscle and strength are correctly built you can’t hide it!

If you read some of the old muscle classics, you will frequently find mention of the word, “sinews.” We now call them tendons. To build tendon strength, you must lift heavy and pay your dues. Tendons only get thicker from heavy poundages. Toning and pumping won’t cut it. The old classics were not written for sissies like a lot of the “gentlemen’s” and “general fitness” publications of today. I honestly believe that the training information for the development of muscular size and strength was better 50 years ago that it is now. There are a few good magazines today, but they are dwarfed by the bad ones! Today, we have better “overall health” and nutritional information, by far, but for just pure strength, read some of the old books. You will be amazed at how much they knew and how right they were. They were not afraid to do singles. They enjoyed testing their strength doing a wide assortment of odd lifts. They spelled out what to do to get results and made it simple. It really is simple; the more you know, the more you can admit this!

If Hackenschmidt, Jowett, Cyr and the other old-timers could see the sorry examples of what the media and general public of today consider strong and muscular, they would be tolling on the floor laughing! Remember, when you build muscle the old fashioned way, you can’t hide it. You don’t build muscle or strength by getting a tan or going on a diet! The next time you see the latest so called “strong” or “muscular” Hollywood stud, imagine him squatting 500 pounds, and have a good laugh![/quote]

Did Grandpa Simpson write this?

“Back in 19-dickyety-two…we had to say dickety, because the Kaiser stole the word ‘twenty.’ I chased him for dickety-six miles, but–”

Seriusly, though: good stuff mostly, but the anti-steroid thing is a bit over the top.

Serge Nubret and Arnold took steroids, and they didn’t look like todays refrigerators.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
The really irritating this is the crap coming out of the aerobics room from the “certified instructors”

-NEVER squat below parallel.
-NEVER let your knees go beyond your toes.
-If you feel ANY pain, stop.
-Deadlifts will destroy your back.
-Do EVERYTHING slow and controlled.
-Light weights burn fat and “tone” the muscles.
-Muscle turns to fat when you get old.
-Don’t exert yourself.
-On and on and on…

I was helping my mother out one day in the gym. She is very active and is a regular in the aerobics classes. She wanted to start a light lifting program and asked me to help. One of the exercises I had her try is the DB squat with light weight. SHe was doing just fine and actually enjoyed the exercise when out of nowhere some woman stormed over and told us how bad it was, that squatting is horrible, blah, blah (I mean she was upset!). She suggested, no shit, that we do squats against the wall with a swiss ball behind our back.

It’s the jerks that feel they have to butt in or consider themselves the Yoda of all things fitness that piss me off. That’s part of the problem, too many experts with different philosophies each claiming all the others are wrong. It’s confusing and intimidating to the novice.
[/quote]

Isn’t “stop if you feel pain” a good piece of advice?

Is there a delineation between ‘sharp, sudden, stabbing pain’ and ‘wow, this shit hurts: cool’?

:slight_smile:

[quote]harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
The really irritating this is the crap coming out of the aerobics room from the “certified instructors”

-NEVER squat below parallel.
-NEVER let your knees go beyond your toes.
-If you feel ANY pain, stop.
-Deadlifts will destroy your back.
-Do EVERYTHING slow and controlled.
-Light weights burn fat and “tone” the muscles.
-Muscle turns to fat when you get old.
-Don’t exert yourself.
-On and on and on…

I was helping my mother out one day in the gym. She is very active and is a regular in the aerobics classes. She wanted to start a light lifting program and asked me to help. One of the exercises I had her try is the DB squat with light weight. SHe was doing just fine and actually enjoyed the exercise when out of nowhere some woman stormed over and told us how bad it was, that squatting is horrible, blah, blah (I mean she was upset!). She suggested, no shit, that we do squats against the wall with a swiss ball behind our back.

It’s the jerks that feel they have to butt in or consider themselves the Yoda of all things fitness that piss me off. That’s part of the problem, too many experts with different philosophies each claiming all the others are wrong. It’s confusing and intimidating to the novice.

Isn’t “stop if you feel pain” a good piece of advice?

Is there a delineation between ‘sharp, sudden, stabbing pain’ and ‘wow, this shit hurts: cool’?

:slight_smile:
[/quote]

Hey, when did you get so reasonable? Pain is bad sometimes. I have just never heard any trainer explain the different types (tearing vs. lactic acid burn). Read the directions on any piece of fitness equipment “stop if you feel any exertion or lightheadedness. Consult a Doctor before using this product…” or something to that effect. God forbid you exert yourself. Our ancestors used to plow fields with their bare hands, lift heavy pieces of machinery in factories, carry water buckets for miles, wash clothes by hand, walk to the market, build wooden ships with hammers and nails, erect pyramids with muscle power…we are so weak compared to our ancestors.

Hi PGJ,

I agree with a lot of what you have said. But, as far as the “stop if you feel pain”, or any of the other seemily extremely cautious exercise advice perpetuated by many of today’s trainers… Keep in mind that much of this has to do with legal liability. Personal trainers, or fitness instructors, can be sued by their clients if their cleint is injured. And unfortunately many of the governing bodies in the industry are the ones coming up with many of these standards. So, if you go against what the industry says is ok, such as squatting below parallel, then you are at a high risk for being sued.

Do I agree with many of these standards? Heck no. But keep in mind that in order to maintain minimal chance of liability many of the standards have been geared towards the lowest common denominator. In other words, the sedentary, obese, elderly, and chronically injured individual.

The problem is that many trainers, or fitness instructors, upon recieving their certifications, degrees, etc… stop learning or researching for newer and better ways of doing things. The good ones keep learning as much as possible about exercise and fitness in general and understand the difference and adjustments that can/should be made depending on the individual.

I personally would not train a 65 year old overweight person who’s goals were to lose weight and improve their cardio vascular health the same way that I would train a 25 year old strength athlete who was concerned with improving maximal strength and athletic performance. But, because I’ve done enough self educating on top of what I learned during my degree/certification programs, I can do both and understand what I can and can’t do with each individual.

There really are very few absolutes in exercise training. For some individuals it may be correct to tell them to never squat below parallel, in others it would be perfectly ok to have them go ATG. The same goes for many of the other cautionary guidelines that you mentioned. Of course some of them are just plain crap and anyone endorsing them simply has no idea what they are talking about and definetely shouldn’t be giving other people advice.

Good training,

Sentoguy

Screw the wannabe’s! Not brucelee though! Lol.

Do your thing & when those morons see ZERO results, they’ll come running to you for advises.

BB is the $hit!

[quote]PGJ wrote:
harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
The really irritating this is the crap coming out of the aerobics room from the “certified instructors”

-NEVER squat below parallel.
-NEVER let your knees go beyond your toes.
-If you feel ANY pain, stop.
-Deadlifts will destroy your back.
-Do EVERYTHING slow and controlled.
-Light weights burn fat and “tone” the muscles.
-Muscle turns to fat when you get old.
-Don’t exert yourself.
-On and on and on…

I was helping my mother out one day in the gym. She is very active and is a regular in the aerobics classes. She wanted to start a light lifting program and asked me to help. One of the exercises I had her try is the DB squat with light weight. SHe was doing just fine and actually enjoyed the exercise when out of nowhere some woman stormed over and told us how bad it was, that squatting is horrible, blah, blah (I mean she was upset!). She suggested, no shit, that we do squats against the wall with a swiss ball behind our back.

It’s the jerks that feel they have to butt in or consider themselves the Yoda of all things fitness that piss me off. That’s part of the problem, too many experts with different philosophies each claiming all the others are wrong. It’s confusing and intimidating to the novice.

Isn’t “stop if you feel pain” a good piece of advice?

Is there a delineation between ‘sharp, sudden, stabbing pain’ and ‘wow, this shit hurts: cool’?

:slight_smile:

Hey, when did you get so reasonable? Pain is bad sometimes. I have just never heard any trainer explain the different types (tearing vs. lactic acid burn). Read the directions on any piece of fitness equipment “stop if you feel any exertion or lightheadedness. Consult a Doctor before using this product…” or something to that effect. God forbid you exert yourself. Our ancestors used to plow fields with their bare hands, lift heavy pieces of machinery in factories, carry water buckets for miles, wash clothes by hand, walk to the market, build wooden ships with hammers and nails, erect pyramids with muscle power…we are so weak compared to our ancestors.

[/quote]

Stop if you feel lightheaded? That’s when you know you’re properly warmed up, isn’t it?

As to our ancestors, though: they may have been stronger, but they all dropped dead by age 40, stank to high heaven, and couldn’t make the connection between the plague and getting rid of garbage by throwing it out the window.

Today’s pretty cool.

Vagrant, good post. I experienced the same thing last summer with different circumstances. I was driving to work one day and saw a “rotund” man walking down the sidewalk quite slowly, I thought nothing of it since alot of people walk in this town. Then I started seeing him everyday when I was driving to work, I wasnt gonna pull over and scream great work buddy since its a busy street, but I would wave to him and whatnot.

Anyway, long story short, by the end of the summer the guy was almost speed walking and much trimmer. Im sure a few people motivated him to keep going along the way, but seeing that also motivated me to keep going.

[quote]harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
The really irritating this is the crap coming out of the aerobics room from the “certified instructors”

-NEVER squat below parallel.
-NEVER let your knees go beyond your toes.
-If you feel ANY pain, stop.
-Deadlifts will destroy your back.
-Do EVERYTHING slow and controlled.
-Light weights burn fat and “tone” the muscles.
-Muscle turns to fat when you get old.
-Don’t exert yourself.
-On and on and on…

I was helping my mother out one day in the gym. She is very active and is a regular in the aerobics classes. She wanted to start a light lifting program and asked me to help. One of the exercises I had her try is the DB squat with light weight. SHe was doing just fine and actually enjoyed the exercise when out of nowhere some woman stormed over and told us how bad it was, that squatting is horrible, blah, blah (I mean she was upset!). She suggested, no shit, that we do squats against the wall with a swiss ball behind our back.

It’s the jerks that feel they have to butt in or consider themselves the Yoda of all things fitness that piss me off. That’s part of the problem, too many experts with different philosophies each claiming all the others are wrong. It’s confusing and intimidating to the novice.

Isn’t “stop if you feel pain” a good piece of advice?

Is there a delineation between ‘sharp, sudden, stabbing pain’ and ‘wow, this shit hurts: cool’?

:slight_smile:

Hey, when did you get so reasonable? Pain is bad sometimes. I have just never heard any trainer explain the different types (tearing vs. lactic acid burn). Read the directions on any piece of fitness equipment “stop if you feel any exertion or lightheadedness. Consult a Doctor before using this product…” or something to that effect. God forbid you exert yourself. Our ancestors used to plow fields with their bare hands, lift heavy pieces of machinery in factories, carry water buckets for miles, wash clothes by hand, walk to the market, build wooden ships with hammers and nails, erect pyramids with muscle power…we are so weak compared to our ancestors.

Stop if you feel lightheaded? That’s when you know you’re properly warmed up, isn’t it?

As to our ancestors, though: they may have been stronger, but they all dropped dead by age 40, stank to high heaven, and couldn’t make the connection between the plague and getting rid of garbage by throwing it out the window.

Today’s pretty cool.
[/quote]

True, true. But they would definately kick our ass in a fight. I beginning to like you, Harris.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
harris447 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
The really irritating this is the crap coming out of the aerobics room from the “certified instructors”

-NEVER squat below parallel.
-NEVER let your knees go beyond your toes.
-If you feel ANY pain, stop.
-Deadlifts will destroy your back.
-Do EVERYTHING slow and controlled.
-Light weights burn fat and “tone” the muscles.
-Muscle turns to fat when you get old.
-Don’t exert yourself.
-On and on and on…

I was helping my mother out one day in the gym. She is very active and is a regular in the aerobics classes. She wanted to start a light lifting program and asked me to help. One of the exercises I had her try is the DB squat with light weight. SHe was doing just fine and actually enjoyed the exercise when out of nowhere some woman stormed over and told us how bad it was, that squatting is horrible, blah, blah (I mean she was upset!). She suggested, no shit, that we do squats against the wall with a swiss ball behind our back.

It’s the jerks that feel they have to butt in or consider themselves the Yoda of all things fitness that piss me off. That’s part of the problem, too many experts with different philosophies each claiming all the others are wrong. It’s confusing and intimidating to the novice.

Isn’t “stop if you feel pain” a good piece of advice?

Is there a delineation between ‘sharp, sudden, stabbing pain’ and ‘wow, this shit hurts: cool’?

:slight_smile:

Hey, when did you get so reasonable? Pain is bad sometimes. I have just never heard any trainer explain the different types (tearing vs. lactic acid burn). Read the directions on any piece of fitness equipment “stop if you feel any exertion or lightheadedness. Consult a Doctor before using this product…” or something to that effect. God forbid you exert yourself. Our ancestors used to plow fields with their bare hands, lift heavy pieces of machinery in factories, carry water buckets for miles, wash clothes by hand, walk to the market, build wooden ships with hammers and nails, erect pyramids with muscle power…we are so weak compared to our ancestors.

Stop if you feel lightheaded? That’s when you know you’re properly warmed up, isn’t it?

As to our ancestors, though: they may have been stronger, but they all dropped dead by age 40, stank to high heaven, and couldn’t make the connection between the plague and getting rid of garbage by throwing it out the window.

Today’s pretty cool.

True, true. But they would definately kick our ass in a fight. I beginning to like you, Harris.

[/quote]

They would–perhaps–kick our asses in a FAIR fight.

Whereas I have no intention of bringing a knife to a gunfight.

If I saw one of those smelly Victorian motherfuckers, I’d taser him while sreaming, “Evolve, you backwards cocksucker!”

What the fuck were we talking about? I kinda backed out there for a sec…

[quote]ocn2000 wrote:
True bodybuilders are strong. I was into bodybuilding, and I squatted, deadlifted, chinned. Hell, I had a double bodyweight bench. Could seated military press my weight a few times and chin full range with 25-30% of my bodyweight for 3x8-10 reps. Not bad for someone who was not on a strength training regimen. Mostly what you see today are posers would act just as you described. [/quote]

I second that, there a 5-6 guys at my gym back home in Germany, they all can bench-press 385 8-10 times

they don’t even do real bodybuilding, they just lift for the heck of it