Bodybuilding on the Anabolic Diet

Training Bodybuilding
81

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
<<< The thing is that you are somewhat misinterpreting my recommendations. The one meal carb-up is for body composition only; or in other words to MAXIMIZE fat loss. >>>[/quote]

This does help me understand your reasoning in this thread quite a bit better too.

EDIT: Lemme throw in here too that, at least in the AD thread, many guys jump into horrendous junk fest carb ups within the first few weeks or even for their first one which I think is a major mistake for the vast of majority and calls into question their motivation for starting in the first place.

Some may be able to do that. I can’t, still can’t and I’m pretty sure I’m not alone. I think using the word “load” for carb ups leads some guys astray.

Also, I came to the conclusion a long time ago that the various low carb/fat adapted approaches are versions of one another and being fully adapted and then finding a carb strategy that works for you is the key. That may not get smiles out of some AD purists, maybe not even Disc Hoss, but I really think that’s the ticket.

I do completely agree with DH that going a few months by the book is best for most, especially inexperienced lifters, but once you get a grip on where you are it makes no sense to continue in lock step if some changes will serve you better.

I rarely say anything like that in the AD thread because most guys usually in there are very new to this whole thing and not in a position to know what changes to make.

82

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
<<< The thing is that you are somewhat misinterpreting my recommendations. The one meal carb-up is for body composition only; or in other words to MAXIMIZE fat loss. >>>

This does help me understand your reasoning in this thread quite a bit better too.[/quote]

Heck, I am consuming around 100g of carbs peri-workout myself (read my first person article) so it would be a bit foolish of me to say that you MUST avoid carbs totally!

83

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

I rarely say anything like that in the AD thread because most guys usually in there are very new to this whole thing and not in a position to know what changes to make.[/quote]

SO TRUE! And this goes for training too. Individualisation is the key as well as autoregulation. Dr. Siff used to call it cybernetic periodization: you do plan the overall backbone of your program but the actual application of it varies depending on your day-to-day self evaluation.

HOWEVER to make that work you NEED to be extremely objective about yourself and be able to understand your body perfectly. Those who can’t do that should stick to a more rigid plan.

84

CT, I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to go over all this! I know I’ve certainly learned a great deal.

My experience with the AD was pretty positive, and I learned that I function better with fewer carbs. I recently upped my carb intake to less than 100g/day, and it’s been amazing how much better I function.

Now, thanks to all this information you’ve provide (and others, as well), I understand why!

85

Great thread!

This is going to come in handy-- Thanks DT!! It took me almost a week to get through the A-D thread in S/N!!

I’ve started a recipe thread for A-D ‘Italian’ Cuisine:

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2144267

86

MODOK: Would u say ur more like an ecto, meso, or endo?

CT: So basically this is just a normal keto diet your talking about right? I have a friend who used to be really fat and now he’s gotten upto 190lb. and around 9%bf at 5’7! he’s gotten such good results from basically just doing a keto diet.

I just started my bulk today but unfortunately i’m starting at 12.5%bf. I’m going to be following a carb cycling plan similar to the one in ur “carb cycling codex” article, just with less fat because it put me at around 45% fat.

anyway last time i did keto i had some serious problems. i wasnt gaining weight (due to water weight leaving which i didnt think about) so i jacked up the calories to near 3800 pretty quickly.

I noticed i gained fat pretty damn fast that way and when i began my cut my results were good but nothing exceptional if i remember correctly. I like the concept of Keto but does it seem like i shouldnt do it or that i just ate too much?

Also i dont know if it would be good to go back anytime soon because i got really bad acne from it. I’m just now having it be unnoticeable and it started back in september

87

This was a great thread. Thanks for bumping it, I missed it before.

I will add my two cents in.

I’ve been playing around with the AD diet/low carbs diet for like the past 5+ yrs.

When I first started, like most people I felt like shit because I was probably used to eating way more carbs than my body can handle so the sudden absence of carbs was quite the shock.

As time went out, I adapted and for the most part it has been great. My energy is always constant and 100%. I don’t have the constant up and downs of the carb based diet. I never have problems with energy in the gym like some report and I still get great pumps. Maybe, a lower carbs diet just suits me better long term.

However, the AD weekend carbups were always hell. I even questioned the validity of them. I would always feel like shit after them, eating if eating “clean” carbs.

Historically, (like Thibs said earlier in the thread) this type of diet, first recommended by Gironda was never meant to have a “Carb-up” days

The all day carb-ups IMO is the quickest way to get off the bandwagon so to speak. at least for me. Also, it is easy to revert back to your negative carb habits that you were avoiding during the week.

My guess is if you can handle a 1-2 day carb-up without negative effects, you probably don’t need a low carb diet in the first place.

Things started to really crystalize for me when I started adhering to the Gironda guideline of 1 carb meal a week. Thib’s article, “Refined Physique Transformation” really is when everything started making sense. I try to follow that.

Once, I become lean enough to my liking I will add back in post WO carbs.

And to answer the original question, yes, I am getting bigger.

88

What bf% and weight are u at now greekdawg?

I’ve always been interested in these types of diets but last time i did a keto diet my skin got really oily and i got really bad acne. i agree about not having a full carb up weekend but i’d think 2-3 big carb meals one day of the week would be of importance.

and i just read that refined physique transformation too, good stuff. Sometimes it’s hard to determine what i should do based on my level, like i would assume i shouldnt do OVT being a 2 weeks away from 17 and only training for 2 years, but overall i like his methodology and he shows that “former fat boys” really can look great

89

[quote]David1991 wrote:
What bf% and weight are u at now greekdawg?

I’ve always been interested in these types of diets but last time i did a keto diet my skin got really oily and i got really bad acne. i agree about not having a full carb up weekend but i’d think 2-3 big carb meals one day of the week would be of importance.

and i just read that refined physique transformation too, good stuff. Sometimes it’s hard to determine what i should do based on my level, like i would assume i shouldnt do OVT being a 2 weeks away from 17 and only training for 2 years, but overall i like his methodology and he shows that “former fat boys” really can look great[/quote]

What kind of foods were you eating?. Were you going all out with the beacon and cheese or were you eating your chicken breast with EVO on it?. What I mean is, were you taking in mostly “healthy” fats or were you just eating what ever was high fat?

90

[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
What kind of foods were you eating?. Were you going all out with the beacon and cheese or were you eating your chicken breast with EVO on it?. What I mean is, were you taking in mostly “healthy” fats or were you just eating what ever was high fat?[/quote]

all healthy foods…basically peanut butter, a TON of olive oil, eggs, turkey burgers, cottage cheese, chicken, etc…

91

I just got done the two week induction phase of the traditional AD (this is about the third time in my life I have gotten started on it, never stayed on it long before). I found a link to this thread from one of the threads in S&N. CT’s variation on the low-carb diet with carb-up idea interests me though.

Having found it a bit difficult to fit in vegetables easily while staying under 30 g of carbs but also staying above 25 g of fiber, I would consider having up to 50 g of carbs to play with a boon. Variety and nutrition would be much improved. I could even include a glass of wine once my adrenals get back up to snuff (I believe there is about 5 - 7 g of sugar in a 3 oz glass).

The idea of a limited carb-up also resonates with me. As much as sugar filled items sometimes tempt me, I really don’t find myself craving them that much. I seem to have bad reactions to some of my carb-up meals (food allergy? acid? metabolic reaction? don’t know) despite being moderately clean. I seem to smooth out pretty quick too.

Anyway, I think I would like to give CT’s variation a go instead of the standard AD. I had good success years back on a low-carbs diet with no carb-ups with about 40 g or so of carbs per day. I have carbed up today for the first time after the two week induction phase I mentioned above. I ate maybe 75% clean.

Do I need to start another two week induction to switch diets or am I fat adapted enough despite the full day carb feast today?

92

Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster (Always wanted to say that).

Anyhow, I have been on the AD for over 9 months and I have loved the results. Body fat dropped from mid 20’s to low 10’s (or even lower if I ever get a hydrostatic test dunk to verify) and I have had no problems with either bulking up or cutting on the AD.

My macros are as clean as possible. my sat/poly/mono ratios are almost equal (21% sat/13% mono/17% poly) and I get a good amount of daily fats from fish oil, flax oil, CLA, EVOO, eggs and the rest from animal meat.

I’m also taking a multi-vitamin pack each day that has pretty much all the nutrients that the Doc suggests in the book.

I do have a question for CT that he might shed some light on: Up to about a month ago I was keeping all my daily carbs mainly from green veggies (lettuce, cabbage, broccoli) but I have to tell you that I absolutely hate veggies. It s is very hard for me to eat them every day so I really find it a chore.

Last month I found a very clean Whole wheat whole grain bread at Costco (Alpine Valley) where the only ingredients are 100% Whole Grain Wheat flour, Organic Whole Grain Wheat flour, water honey, sea salt, yeast. This stuff tastes great and if I cut each slice into four equal pieces I get about 4.25g of carbs (one slice has 18g of carbs 2g fibers).

I slowly began substituting my veggies with with the bread and I can still keep my daily carbs under control but my question is… am I taking one step forward/3 steps back by only using whole wheat bread instead of veggies?

I know veggies are important for certain nutritional content but can they be completely removed (or at least cut down substantially) without effecting my overall nutritional goals.

93

No amount of multivitamins will replace actually eating veggies

94

Wow great thread. Question for the group. Starting the adaptation phase tomorrow. Should I count veggie CHO or not? I have heard both yes and no. Looking for some advice. Also, artificial sweeteners? CHO or not? Just wondering.

95

[quote]Dirty Tiger wrote:
Curious.

It seems like the S&N posters don’t follow the bodybuilding forum and the bodybuilders in this forum don’t follow the AD.

I think I have my answer.[/quote]

I did it back in 2004 for about 6 months before eating all the fat made me feel so sick and it was good to switch back to a balanced carb/protein/fat mix… I love eating salads now as well… I did gain muscle on it but was it because I was really ripped and any muscle mass I added looked better I dont know I was sitting at about 8-9% bf and 84kgs at 165cm.

Anyway mate if your looking at doing it just jump in and have at it, You never know until you try it.

Hope this has been helpful.

96

I’m just about to start my first bulk on the AD (first ever bulk actually) so hopefully I’ll be able to provide a bit of feedback. Wish me luck!

97

Coach, incredible info. thanks. I am versed on CKDs and I am wondering one thing. You have touched on the different energy pathways. I understood that in a carb restricted/depleted (anaerobically) state, the ingested carb. will replace muscular and haepatic glycogen stores first. This effect takes place from 24-72 hours. (I have read from diff. authors). I am very carb intolerant and from German descent.

Question: I also understood that dietary fat, when consumed, obviously cannot be converted to glycogen and if not used for energy will most certainloy be deposited as body fat. With that in mind, how is this avoided with a semingly high fat intake?

98

Ok I’m looking at starting bulking next month but I’m not exactly sure yet what approach I should take.
I have read the easy hardgainer article and that totally sounds like me… but one problem I have had is as soon as I start eating a ton of carbs I bloat up like crazy.
What would be my best approach?
carb cycling
ad
or just stick with the plan in the article?

I think the carb cycling approach seems like the best option since I shouldnt get as bloated but I will still get the carbs I need…

99

on the AD diet i did not gain much mass while eating ~3500 cals at 173. apparently i need a lot more (5k probably) to gain.

100

Hi bro, but lets say u suddenly go of the diet. would u put alot of fat back on really quickly?
what if u bring back carbs slowly…?