[quote]K-Narf wrote:
You act like your the only one of this entire site that knows the pros juice. EVERYONE knows they fucking juice. Alot of high level powerlifters juice too. Its part of the game.An unfortunate part but a still a part. I ask you this if steroids make you a cheater and fake then where in your holier than thou bullshit does pro hormones put you? Or a supplement like TRIBEX or Carbolin 19? [/quote]
It’s not that I’m the only one who knows, it’s that I seem to be the only one who thinks there’s a problem with it. When there are enough examples of people who achieve great results without resorting to steroids, why do you people have respect or give praise to these freaks from rag-mags? Everyone just loves to get all worked up and flame but why not just explain yourself?
If you say “I know they’re juiced to the throat but it looks freaky and I kinda enjoy the monstrosity of it all.” I’m totally down with that. But alot of people seem to be protecting some built-up image or something. You like the freakiness factor, just observing these guys in a Discovery chanel or Nova Special kind of way? Great! Nothing wrong with that.
But let’s not pretend that they are strong or healthy or serve as good rolemodels. It’s the juice. Many articles on T-Nation have a very satire look at the pro-bodybuilding idustry but I don’t see the same people screaming “NO!! FUCK YOU, I WANNA BE LIKE RONNIE!!”. So why the double standart?
We’ve all seen The Incredibles right? I think thats what we have here. As a little boy young Majin wanted to be HYOOGE just like his favorite pros but was shunned so from this point on he’s making it his lives work discredit them.
“I know guys that are strong at construction work, wrestling, arm wrestling, running/football etc., that can’t bench 150 or squat 225!! It’s all about functionality.”
I have found that most guys on the construction site that don’t lift almost max out putting their toolbelt on. I am not very big or very strong, but lifting weights helped my performance more than 30 years of “functional” practice would.
When you see these jackasses that think lifting is wierd try to push a 50 lb. box of welding rods over their head while hanging off a scaffold you see real quick that dumbell work is not for bloated show muscles.(One reason I prefer free weights: I’ve never seen cables or smith machines on job site.)
For me, weight training has always translated really well towards making everything easier, from moving refrigerators to changing tires or snatching my wife over my shoulder and running up the stairs. Whatever.
Also- why do people that don’t lift think you need a belt to squat or deadlift ANY weight at all in a clean, dry, well lit gym, then you see them lift a wet sack of whatever out of a truck while standing on a chrome bumper and not think of the safety in that? And it’s probably the heaviest thing they have lifted in 7 years.
Coleman and todays “pros” pale in comparison to TK.
Tommy Kono set 26 world records in 4 different weight divisions, won three Olympic medals and remains one of the most versatile weight lifters of all time.
1952
Olympic gold medal (lightweight)
1953
World champion
1954
Mr. World, World champion
1955
Mr. Universe, World champion
1956
Olympic gold medal (light heavy-weight)
1957
Mr. Universe, World champion
1958
World champion
1959
World champion
1960
Olympic silver medal (middle-weight)
1961
Mr. Universe
1990
Inducted into U.S. Olympic Hall of Fame
1991
Inducted into International Weightlifting Federation Hall of Fame
1996
Selected one of 100 Golden Olympians
[quote]human743 wrote:
“I know guys that are strong at construction work, wrestling, arm wrestling, running/football etc., that can’t bench 150 or squat 225!! It’s all about functionality.”
I have found that most guys on the construction site that don’t lift almost max out putting their toolbelt on. I am not very big or very strong, but lifting weights helped my performance more than 30 years of “functional” practice would.
When you see these jackasses that think lifting is wierd try to push a 50 lb. box of welding rods over their head while hanging off a scaffold you see real quick that dumbell work is not for bloated show muscles.(One reason I prefer free weights: I’ve never seen cables or smith machines on job site.)
For me, weight training has always translated really well towards making everything easier, from moving refrigerators to changing tires or snatching my wife over my shoulder and running up the stairs. Whatever.
Also- why do people that don’t lift think you need a belt to squat or deadlift ANY weight at all in a clean, dry, well lit gym, then you see them lift a wet sack of whatever out of a truck while standing on a chrome bumper and not think of the safety in that? And it’s probably the heaviest thing they have lifted in 7 years.
Maybe I’m the moron.
[/quote]
Great post, agree with everything you said…except about these so called weak construction workers you know. I believe you have seen many weak men at work, I’ve meant plenty in my day too. However the specific ones I was talking about are my personal friends that can match or beat me in wrestling, arm wrestling, tackle as hard as me at football and have never touched a weight. I can bench 330, dead 520 and clean and press 270.
[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
However the specific ones I was talking about are my personal friends that can match or beat me in wrestling, arm wrestling, tackle as hard as me at football and have never touched a weight. I can bench 330, dead 520 and clean and press 270.[/quote]
So your friends who don’t lift weights are stronger than you?
[quote]Majin wrote:
harris447 wrote:
You are THE stupidest person on this site, and that’s saying quite a bit.
Well then you just took away my first place by being unable to reply with anything except to resort to namecalling. I’m dialing FedEx right now so they ship the medal to your addres.
[/quote]
I am absolutely in awe of the stupidity I’ve seen come out of one person. Unreal.
[quote]Majin wrote:
But let’s not pretend that they are strong…[/quote]
I want to make something very obvious to you. Ronnie is very strong. So are many other bodybuilders. So are many powerlifters. So are many Strongman competitors. Someone who deadlifts 600lbs is strong, whether they weigh 200lbs or 300lbs.
To say someone like Ronnie isn’t strong just because he juices proves once and for all that you are about as smart as my last meal.
Please shut the fuck up. You are embarrassing yourself. Again. And again.
[quote]Massif wrote:
Majin wrote:
But let’s not pretend that they are strong…
I want to make something very obvious to you. Ronnie is very strong. So are many other bodybuilders. So are many powerlifters. So are many Strongman competitors. Someone who deadlifts 600lbs is strong, whether they weigh 200lbs or 300lbs.
To say someone like Ronnie isn’t strong just because he juices proves once and for all that you are about as smart as my last meal.
Please shut the fuck up. You are embarrassing yourself. Again. And again.[/quote]
First off you’ve quoted me out of context. I’m not saying that pro-bodybuilders are physically weak. What I am saying is that a great deal of their strength comes from injections of performance enhancers. And I think that calling over-roided bbers strong is kinda incorrect and unfair to those who earn their strength without such huge amounts of drugs.
The other point is simply that their size doesn’t corelate with their strength in the way that a natural weightlifter with the amount of muscle mass of Ronnie would be able to annihilate any world record by leaps and bounds. Not that I would urge people to become the 130lb belerina with a 5x-bodyweight deadlift, but it’s obvious that in corelation of strength to size there is a larger gap with pro bodybuilders than natural ones.
Again, people get all uppity like I’m trying to attack them. It’s a simple statement not an attack. Bodybuilders are after size, not strength after all. I was noting how the difference is larger in pros.
And finally I was asking why people admire the over-the-top juiced dudes. It’s almost like I’m among WCW fans who are screaming “No, fuck you, it’s all real!”. Or do people think that I’m talking about all bodybuilders. Because I’m not, just the pros.
[quote]
Great post, agree with everything you said…except about these so called weak construction workers you know. I believe you have seen many weak men at work, I’ve meant plenty in my day too. However the specific ones I was talking about are my personal friends that can match or beat me in wrestling, arm wrestling, tackle as hard as me at football and have never touched a weight. I can bench 330, dead 520 and clean and press 270.[/quote]
What’s your point? Wrestling, arm wrestling, and football require technique; maximal strength in weightlifting is only a supplement to it. There are boxers and BJJ guys that weigh 140-160 that would beat the crap out of Professor X, Ronnie Coleman, Magnus Samuelsson, and lots of people that can move some heavy ass weights.
It’s like a high school jock thinking they can kick someones ass because they bench more. If you don’t know anything about fighting, you will be defeated by someone that trains for it.
[quote]DLboy wrote:
If you don’t know anything about fighting, you will be defeated by someone that trains for it.[/quote]
Only if your other attributes fall beneath their’s as well. The chances of a “really skilled” 130lbs man being able to do any significant harm to Bob Sapp are almost nonexistant, even if he just stood there. His overall body size is too great for there to be much harm done by a 130lbs punch. How could someone that light wrestle someone who weighs over 375lbs to the ground? There has to be enough mass there plus skill to overtake someone like that. That is just reality. It doesn’t mean it takes someone over 250lbs to do it, but the likelihood of someone extremely thin being able to do the same is low.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
DLboy wrote:
If you don’t know anything about fighting, you will be defeated by someone that trains for it.
Only if your other attributes fall beneath their’s as well. The chances of a “really skilled” 130lbs man being able to do any significant harm to Bob Sapp are almost nonexistant, even if he just stood there. His overall body size is too great for there to be much harm done by a 130lbs punch. How could someone that light wrestle someone who weighs over 375lbs to the ground? There has to be enough mass there plus skill to overtake someone like that. That is just reality. It doesn’t mean it takes someone over 250lbs to do it, but the likelihood of someone extremely thin being able to do the same is low.[/quote]
Agreed. There’s no doubt that there is more than size or strength that goes into deciding a fight but to pretend that size and strength don’t play a major role if the one combatant is alot smaller than another combatant is wishful thinking. Watch boxing,UFC or whatever.
You could make a case that alot of the lighter fighers are “better fighters” but against the sheer size and strength of the heavyweights they would get demolished, hence the reason they have weight classes.
The other point is simply that their size doesn’t corelate with their strength in the way that a natural weightlifter with the amount of muscle mass of Ronnie would be able to annihilate any world record by leaps and bounds. Not that I would urge people to become the 130lb belerina with a 5x-bodyweight deadlift, but it’s obvious that in corelation of strength to size there is a larger gap with pro bodybuilders than natural ones.
[/quote]
Its been said quite a few times here that “relative strength” favors individuals of lighter body weight.
For example, the power lifting record for squatting in the 114 weight class is 662.5 lbs. (over 6x bodyweight). The person who has squatted the most weight, however (1201.5 lbs.) was only squatting 2.18x his bodyweight. The same is true for benchpress (402 in 144 class, 3.65xBW vs. 1005 @ 374lbs, or 2.69xBW) and deadlift (639 in the 123 class, 5.18xBW and 970 in the super heavy weight at 2.78xBW).
This shows, at least to me, that smaller people are “relatively stronger” BUT in order to be able to move the biggest weights on the planet you need to have MUCH more mass. Who is stronger, then?
Do to the fact that the dictionary definition of strong is “Physically powerful; capable of exerting great physical force” I would have to say that the people moving the most weight are the strongest.
The numbers that the lighter guys are putting up are definitely impressive, and everything can be said to be relative, but when dealing with something that is quantitative measurement the person who has lifted the most has done the most and is, therefore, the strongest.
[quote]tjd772 wrote:
Its been said quite a few times here that “relative strength” favors individuals of lighter body weight.
For example, the power lifting record for squatting in the 114 weight class is 662.5 lbs. (over 6x bodyweight). The person who has squatted the most weight, however (1201.5 lbs.) was only squatting 2.18x his bodyweight. The same is true for benchpress (402 in 144 class, 3.65xBW vs. 1005 @ 374lbs, or 2.69xBW) and deadlift (639 in the 123 class, 5.18xBW and 970 in the super heavy weight at 2.78xBW).
This shows, at least to me, that smaller people are “relatively stronger” BUT in order to be able to move the biggest weights on the planet you need to have MUCH more mass. Who is stronger, then?
Do to the fact that the dictionary definition of strong is “Physically powerful; capable of exerting great physical force” I would have to say that the people moving the most weight are the strongest.
The numbers that the lighter guys are putting up are definitely impressive, and everything can be said to be relative, but when dealing with something that is quantitative measurement the person who has lifted the most has done the most and is, therefore, the strongest.
[/quote]
That’s a very good explanation and more people should understand that.
My goal was always to be one of the strongest, not someone small with “relative strength” but less overall strength than the stronger guys. I swear, science is now an excuse for lack of results. No one outside of sports or competition fighting/powerlifting/wrestling should be using this term.
You missed the point of my post, I’m not doubting that Bob Sapp would make a lightweight crap his pants. Bob Sapp is not an untrained idiot. He has an OK understanding of both standup and ground, he just has horrible cardio. Bob Sapp has also gotten his ass kicked (and by ass kicked, I mean KTFO) by people 150 pounds lighter than him.
But a guy that knows absolutely nothing about proper fighting regardless of how strong he is will get his ass handed to him by someone that is very technical.
Royce Gracie was 6’0 160-170 tops in UFC 1, and he easily handled people like Shamrock, and other guys that were 200+. Why? Because they were clueless. Obviously it doesn’t apply anymore because grapplers are a dime a dozen nowadays.
But to say that some random bodybuilder/powerlifter can defeat a good lightweight boxer or BJJ guy at their own sport is beyond ridiculous, it’s retarded.
Go show up at a BJJ/Muay Thai gym and start fighting some people. But don’t start crying when a 135 pound pro fighter thai kicks you in the face and you get KTFO. I guess a 450 bench didn’t help you there.