[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
If some motherfucker is strong enough to muscle himself out of submissions at will, then the only thing I’m going to need is endurance, because I’m fucking running. [/quote]
Wasn’t that what this whole thread was about?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
If some motherfucker is strong enough to muscle himself out of submissions at will, then the only thing I’m going to need is endurance, because I’m fucking running.
Wasn’t that what this whole thread was about?
A guy like that is one in a million dude. Not your everyday weightlifter[/quote]
Yea how many people do you see doing that? Not many others than Rampage…
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
If some motherfucker is strong enough to muscle himself out of submissions at will, then the only thing I’m going to need is endurance, because I’m fucking running.
Wasn’t that what this whole thread was about?
A guy like that is one in a million dude. Not your everyday weightlifter[/quote]
The whole fucking thread was about BIG MOTHER FUCKING BODYBUILDERS, not your everyday weightlifter. I’d ask where the fuck have you been but your name is on every page 15 times.
[quote]red04 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
If some motherfucker is strong enough to muscle himself out of submissions at will, then the only thing I’m going to need is endurance, because I’m fucking running.
Wasn’t that what this whole thread was about?
A guy like that is one in a million dude. Not your everyday weightlifter
The whole fucking thread was about BIG MOTHER FUCKING BODYBUILDERS, not your everyday weightlifter. I’d ask where the fuck have you been but your name is on every page 15 times.[/quote]
I would trust a guy who has fought over people who are so wowed by the power of weights. A good fighter who was close to the guys size will crucify the untrained guy.
As for the strength needed to get out of submission holds, you might have it if your name is captain america, wolverine, or the hulk, but your average just strong as hell guy isn’t getting out of one that’s sunk in.
Brute force + aggression is way better than 140lb twerp with karate lessons.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
If some motherfucker is strong enough to muscle himself out of submissions at will, then the only thing I’m going to need is endurance, because I’m fucking running. [/quote]
Haha, yeah that would be my reaction as well (that or get a weapon). The only problem with running is that he would probably catch you. Some of those NFL linemen/defensive linemen can run a 40 fucking fast. You’d also unfortunately not realize that he could do it until you were on the ground with him so running would be tough. Of course he was a big guy, so personally unless I had to, I wouldn’t be picking a fight with him anyway, but then isn’t that kind of the point of the thread?
[quote]tom63 wrote:
I would trust a guy who has fought over people who are so wowed by the power of weights. A good fighter who was close to the guys size will crucify the untrained guy.
[/quote]
Yeah, but I don’t think that anyone on any page of this discussion has said anything to the contrary. Big and strong and skilled beats big and strong 99 out of 100 times. But, big and strong can beat small and skilled a lot of times too. Like I and other have said before, it’s possible to overcome size and strength using skill, but you have to be extremely good to do it.
Your average lightweight fighter is going to have their hands full with your average heavyweight powerlifter, strongman, or big strong bodybuilder. Could the best of the best lightweight fighter beat the best of the best big strong guy? Maybe, maybe not. Once again depends on the situation. But it’s not going to be an easy fight.
True. It takes an exceptionally strong person to muscle their way out of submissions. But there are guys who can do it, and I guarantee you that you’d know that they lift weights by looking at them.
Also, your average MMA wanna be isn’t going to have the skill to get a submission against the big guy. People also seem to make the mistake of assuming that the big guy doesn’t know anything about submissions. With the growing popularity of MMA, it’s likely that the big guy has at least some understanding of submissions and what to look for. Could they get submitted by a really skilled submission guy? Yeah, probably.
But about as many people fall into the category of really skilled submission guys as fall into the category of huge ridiculously strong guys. They’re the minority in both cases.
So, to get back to the original topic, suggesting that bodybuilders are pansies simply because they could be beat by ridiculously skilled fighters (who are the very small minority) is about as relevant to everyday life as me saying that it’s possible to muscle your way out of submissions simply because I happen to know of a couple genetic freaks who can do so.
On average, size, strength, speed, aggressiveness and other athletic attributes are extremely useful and will win quite a large percentage of fights. Skill is great too of course and is needed if one wants to maximize their potential as a fighter. But in order for skill to trump attributes there must be a huge disparity between the fighters. And that level of skill is something that very few people posses.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
don’t you guys ever get tired of these threads? These damn things are right up there with the ones about the 140 lbs dude who does everything right but just can’t seem to gain weight.[/quote]
Oh, oh and the Bruce Lee threads, and “functional strength” threads. 
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
All I’m trying to say is that fights are rarely won just by size and strength
[/quote]
Wow that statement is just wrong. I’d say if you took 100 random, average fights that the “rare” win would be by the guy that is not as strong or as big who has great skills or aggression, and that would be the exception, not the other way around. The other 99 fights would be a smaller guy getting his ass handed to him. Which sucks because I’m a smaller guy 
It’s just the reality that size and strength can make up for a shit-load of sloppy technique.
I would say that the “best bet” for a smaller guy is some type of ground game where a larger guy would more likely be uncomfortable and make a mistake that would lead to a triangle or heel/arm lock or something. That or some really good stand up and enough room to move.
But I still love watching that old Hackney video from the early UFC days where he Kempo chops that sumo wrestler that outweighed him by 1000 pounds.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Take the five best fighters (could be boxing, MT, MMA, whatever) and put them in a cage with a silver back gorilla. Now tell them that they must fight to the death and only the last one living can leave.
The gorilla would fucking destroy each and every one of the fighters. It would be literally ripping people’s arms out of their sockets, smashing their heads together, biting huge chunks out of them, just annihilate them. And these are the best fighters in the world, they’ve got probably close to (if not more than) a centuries worth of fight experience and technique. The gorilla on the other hand has no technique, no fight experience, just pure attributes. Yet the gorilla is gonna be the one walking out of that cage.[/quote]
I would enjoy watching that. It would be hilarious.
Mathematical analysis states this will morph into a Bruce Lee thread before it’s over.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Mathematical analysis states this will morph into a Bruce Lee thread before it’s over.[/quote]
Bruce Lee could totally beat the shit out of a silver back gorilla.
[quote]DanErickson wrote:
This thread turned to shit as soon as somebody mentioned the word gun in such a context.[/quote]
I know. Guns belong in movies, and compton.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
If some motherfucker is strong enough to muscle himself out of submissions at will, then the only thing I’m going to need is endurance, because I’m fucking running. [/quote]
There was a guy I trained with back in college that was like that. I put him in an armbar, and he stood up, picked me up with his trapped arm, and slammed me on the ground. That kind of sucked.
[quote]thomas.galvin wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
If some motherfucker is strong enough to muscle himself out of submissions at will, then the only thing I’m going to need is endurance, because I’m fucking running.
There was a guy I trained with back in college that was like that. I put him in an armbar, and he stood up, picked me up with his trapped arm, and slammed me on the ground. That kind of sucked.[/quote]
If you execute the guillotine correctly then he would be out in a few seconds. That’s assuming your very good at it, my cousin tried it on me once (I was curious to see it work) and I was out in a matter of seconds.
[quote]Shire wrote:
If you execute the guillotine correctly then he would be out in a few seconds. That’s assuming your very good at it, my cousin tried it on me once (I was curious to see it work) and I was out in a matter of seconds.[/quote]
I assume you mean the triangle, and I wasn’t that good at it.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I saw that in some UFC match. I think a guy was caught in a triangle, and the other dude stood up with him, leaned the guy against the octagon’s walls, and then fell.
Knocked the guy who had the hold out cold.[/quote]
Yeah, that’s actually illegal in competition Judo for just that reason.
[quote]Shire wrote:
If you execute the guillotine correctly then he would be out in a few seconds. That’s assuming your very good at it, my cousin tried it on me once (I was curious to see it work) and I was out in a matter of seconds.[/quote]
I assume you mean the triangle, and I wasn’t that good at it.
[quote]Shire wrote:
thomas.galvin wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
If some motherfucker is strong enough to muscle himself out of submissions at will, then the only thing I’m going to need is endurance, because I’m fucking running.
There was a guy I trained with back in college that was like that. I put him in an armbar, and he stood up, picked me up with his trapped arm, and slammed me on the ground. That kind of sucked.
If you execute the guillotine correctly then he would be out in a few seconds. That’s assuming your very good at it, my cousin tried it on me once (I was curious to see it work) and I was out in a matter of seconds.
[/quote]
He said arm bar, not guillotine. I think it was Rampage I have seen do this a couple times. Also seen Uriah Faber do it.
Rampage is one of those bodybuilder looking fighters right? He’s real big and strong(along with skilled) and that’s why he’s successful against his peers, right?