Hell I always thought that bodybuilders trained for self-defense in one way or another. I thought people in general were worried about protecting themselves as best as possible. Aint that part of livin ? So some of you people out there are really that naaive to think that the possibility of a fight, never crosses a bodybuilders mind, and that he is all show no go ? This takes it back to the geurilla in the cage theory that the geurilla wins every time !
[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
Hell I always thought that bodybuilders trained for self-defense in one way or another. I thought people in general were worried about protecting themselves as best as possible. Aint that part of livin ? So some of you people out there are really that naaive to think that the possibility of a fight, never crosses a bodybuilders mind, and that he is all show no go ? This takes it back to the geurilla in the cage theory that the geurilla wins every time ! [/quote]
You know what I sort of agree. Any trained individual will have a better chance at winning a fight than an untrainined individual. I still believe brute strength, agressiveness and speed will beat technique, unless both men are equally matched in attributes.
For example Kimbo Slice, relatively new to MMA, but is still kicking ass and was kicking ass when he was untrained so to speak. Kimbo relied on attributes in his street fights and nobody can argue that.
I also believe these freak of nature powerhouse strongmen would kick most anyone’s ass as they outweigh the majority of HW fighters by 100 pounds are twice as strong and with a little common sense could do some serious damage.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
triple-10sets wrote:
Hell I always thought that bodybuilders trained for self-defense in one way or another. I thought people in general were worried about protecting themselves as best as possible. Aint that part of livin ? So some of you people out there are really that naaive to think that the possibility of a fight, never crosses a bodybuilders mind, and that he is all show no go ? This takes it back to the geurilla in the cage theory that the geurilla wins every time !
Irish, I think a left hook is in order here.[/quote]
Right to the fucking liver.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
triple-10sets wrote:
Hell I always thought that bodybuilders trained for self-defense in one way or another. I thought people in general were worried about protecting themselves as best as possible. Aint that part of livin ? So some of you people out there are really that naaive to think that the possibility of a fight, never crosses a bodybuilders mind, and that he is all show no go ? This takes it back to the geurilla in the cage theory that the geurilla wins every time !
You know what I sort of agree. Any trained individual will have a better chance at winning a fight than an untrainined individual. I still believe brute strength, agressiveness and speed will beat technique, unless both men are equally matched in attributes.
[/quote]
You keep believing that. Just don’t ever go into an MMA gym and tell them that, you’ll leave with your arms hanging by tendons.
No, Kimbo relied on boxing. His opponents relied on attributes. You watch the fights and tell me who got knocked out all the time.
[quote]
I also believe these freak of nature powerhouse strongmen would kick most anyone’s ass as they outweigh the majority of HW fighters by 100 pounds are twice as strong and with a little common sense could do some serious damage.[/quote]
Double sigh.
I’m done.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
triple-10sets wrote:
^ Yeah like chuck lidell is really in a rush to fight that guy.
Sigh.[/quote]
Of course he isn’t. He is in a rush to fight top tier 205lb PRO’s
Not some big monster that outweights him by 120+lbs with 0 professional fights.
If there was good hype for the fight and offered a contract he would take a fight like that probably.
I remember a fighter saying something along the lines of “If someone starts a fight with me outside the ring I am whooping their ass and taking their wallet, this is my job I don’t fight for free.”
I didn’t put up those pictures, videos and links saying these guys could kick Rampages head in, I just find it interesting.
Hopefully Big Tom can get some good experience I’d love to see someone with that strength and size in the ring. It would be entertaining if for no other reason than it being different.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
triple-10sets wrote:
Hell I always thought that bodybuilders trained for self-defense in one way or another. I thought people in general were worried about protecting themselves as best as possible. Aint that part of livin ? So some of you people out there are really that naaive to think that the possibility of a fight, never crosses a bodybuilders mind, and that he is all show no go ? This takes it back to the geurilla in the cage theory that the geurilla wins every time !
You know what I sort of agree. Any trained individual will have a better chance at winning a fight than an untrainined individual. I still believe brute strength, agressiveness and speed will beat technique, unless both men are equally matched in attributes.
You keep believing that. Just don’t ever go into an MMA gym and tell them that, you’ll leave with your arms hanging by tendons.
For example Kimbo Slice, relatively new to MMA, but is still kicking ass and was kicking ass when he was untrained so to speak. Kimbo relied on attributes in his street fights and nobody can argue that.
No, Kimbo relied on boxing. His opponents relied on attributes. You watch the fights and tell me who got knocked out all the time.
I also believe these freak of nature powerhouse strongmen would kick most anyone’s ass as they outweigh the majority of HW fighters by 100 pounds are twice as strong and with a little common sense could do some serious damage.
Double sigh.
I’m done. [/quote]
What fights are you watching bro.
Kimbo was faster and stronger than everyone he faught. Can’t argue that.
Not to be rude, but are you upset because you’re a relatively small guy and need to feel better than everybody because you take a few classes in order to train for fighting. So now am i to believe that just because you take a few weekend karate classes you now can kick everyones ass. Fuck that.
you’re also very dramatic with the whole tendons and kennelly may never compete in powerlifting again because he got his ass kicked by kimbo or whatever bullshit spewed out of your mouth. We’re all fucking humans.
I know a few guys, one in particular 6’5 280 pounds. Benches 540 raw stacked out of his mind. No fighting background, but can kick fucking ass, I can’t see him going down.
How about the kimbo slice fights where he verses veteran MMA fighters and fucks them up. Tell me kimbo has more skill than Bo, or Ray. Kimbo won because hes stronger, faster and one crazy son of a bitch.
^ Haha 6’5 280, that is insane. If he wore born back in the 1600’s they would have just made him a knight, no questions asked.
Kimbo is a born-fighter , no question about it. The training just makes him much more deadly. What you think his ancestors were doing ? Fighting Lions with there bare hands or something. Hahaha.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
triple-10sets wrote:
How about the kimbo slice fights where he verses veteran MMA fighters and fucks them up. Tell me kimbo has more skill than Bo, or Ray. Kimbo won because hes stronger, faster and one crazy son of a bitch.
[/quote]
Do you have a link?
The one fight I save where he fought a pro he had his ass handed to him, and it would have been much worse if not for his rules like no knees.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Scott M wrote:
I just want to check, is everyone that walks the streets today a trained fighter in some discipline?
Hell yeah baby, I’m a 9th degree dan in Rex Kwon Do…now grab my wrist…no no no, my other wrist[/quote]
You think anybody wants a roundhouse kick to the face while I’m wearing these bad boys? Forget about it!
[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
^ Haha 6’5 280, that is insane. If he wore born back in the 1600’s they would have just made him a knight, no questions asked. [/quote]
Christ…does anything you write make sense.
Ever?
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
What fights are you watching bro.
Kimbo was faster and stronger than everyone he faught. Can’t argue that.
[/quote]
Fast and strong doesn’t mean shit if you don’t know what you’re doing. Go watch his fights. The one I posted had him knocking out a guy with an uppercut that you barely see coming. His other fights had him fighting an array of guys, as I recall, one much larger than he, and a couple others who were pretty jacked. However, Kimbo knows what he’s doing, and that’s why he won. He would not have won if he was just the same size as these other guys- it would have been a ridiculous brawl with two guys throwing haymakers until one lands, like most fights are.
Kimbo had halfway decent footwork, kept his stance, ducks punches well and counters. Against an actual heavyweight boxer I don’t know how well he would do, but against the buffoons they matched him against, he did wonderfully.
I like Kimbo by the way. Badass motherfucker that guy is, and I hope he does well in MMA.
Ahh blow it out your ass. Even if I’m not as big, I’m positive I’m better looking than you are, so my ego is intact. Don’t worry.
All I’m trying to say is that fights are rarely won just by size and strength, especially when you take the examples that people throw around here between “Average bodybuilder” and “average fighter”. Many fighting styles are made up to negate strength as much as possible, especially the ones that are based more on self defense than competeition, for there are no weight classes in the street. Aikido is made to take your punch’s momentum and use it against you.
Most of the Okinawan karate styles use circular blocks and parries in order to make you not have to try to outmuscle anyone. BJJ is famously made to give smaller guys a shot on the ground by making the techniques negate the differences in bodyweight, i.e. Gracie fighting people at 170, giving away a lot of weight, and winning anyway.
If you don’t tap out in submission grappling, your limbs get broken. It’s that simple. Unless you’re a SILVER BACK GORILLA, there is no way for you to get out of a triangle once it’s taken hold, or slip out of an armbar. Leverage always wins over strength. Like Archimedes said in 230 BC- “Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand, and I will move the world.” When someone goes for a takedown on your ankle, you’d better sprawl no matter how Gorilla-ish you are, or you are on your back. It’s leverage points, and applying strength to unstable joints.
Whoopdee fucking do. Yes, strength helps. I’m not saying it doesn’t. It is important. But like I said, I’ll take a trained fighter over a bodybuilder in a fight, no questions.
Ray Mercer is an old heavyweight boxer. Kimbo choked him out with a guillotine. Ahhh… yea, he won on technique. Mercer likely didn’t know what the hell was going on once he hit that ground (a trap many boxers would fall in to), and Kimbo has been running his ground game with Bas. No question why Kimbo won, and it’s not because he’s so craaazzzzzyyyyyy.
C’mon dude. You gotta do better than that.
don’t you guys ever get tired of these threads? These damn things are right up there with the ones about the 140 lbs dude who does everything right but just can’t seem to gain weight.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ahh blow it out your ass. Even if I’m not as big, I’m positive I’m better looking than you are, so my ego is intact. Don’t worry.
[/quote]
hahahahahahahahha You really said ‘I’m positive I’m better looking than you?’ in an argument about fighting? This is the most pathetic shit I have ever seen on T-Nation.
Oh, and can we ditch the random UFC references? No one gives a fuck what happened to Bob Sapp in UFC 1230835. Every time Bob Sapp loses a fight, a million big guys beat the shit out of little guys all around the world. I’m sure pro bodybuilders aren’t getting beat up for their lunch money.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Now, like I said though, I’m not discounting the importance of technique. The fact that my instructor is a freaking beast and is an 8th degree black belt in Jiu-Jitsu, and a 5th degree black belt in American Kickboxing (under Joe Lewis), and a black belt in Ninjutsu, and a black belt in Pankration (and the list goes on), so he’s also got crazy amounts of skill if he needs it, makes him one scary dude.[/quote]
When did they start giving belts in Kickboxing and Pankration? And which taijutsu guys did he train under?
[quote]Dirty_Bulk wrote:
Good points, but you’re forgetting that excess muscle makes you slow and immobile. That, and if you’ve built a powerful physique, you surely must have no time to train in the basics of fighting.[/quote]
You’re right. Also, all the steroids mean that their hearts will probably just explode right there.
[quote]thomas.galvin wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Now, like I said though, I’m not discounting the importance of technique. The fact that my instructor is a freaking beast and is an 8th degree black belt in Jiu-Jitsu, and a 5th degree black belt in American Kickboxing (under Joe Lewis), and a black belt in Ninjutsu, and a black belt in Pankration (and the list goes on), so he’s also got crazy amounts of skill if he needs it, makes him one scary dude.
When did they start giving belts in Kickboxing and Pankration? And which taijutsu guys did he train under?[/quote]
Joe Lewis gives black belts (his system is American Kickboxing, and by his system I mean he coined the term kickboxing along with having fought the first sanctioned full contact “kickboxing” match in the States, hence being named “the father of American Kickboxing”). The Black Belt is from the International Federation of Pankration Black Belt council.
As far as the Ninjutsu, he’s trained with Robert Bussey and Stephen Hayes that I know of (though probably more).
Well, those are the names I would look for. interesting.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
If you don’t tap out in submission grappling, your limbs get broken. It’s that simple. Unless you’re a SILVER BACK GORILLA, there is no way for you to get out of a triangle once it’s taken hold, or slip out of an armbar. Leverage always wins over strength. Like Archimedes said in 230 BC- “Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand, and I will move the world.” When someone goes for a takedown on your ankle, you’d better sprawl no matter how Gorilla-ish you are, or you are on your back. It’s leverage points, and applying strength to unstable joints.
[/quote]
Not to drag this out any further, but actually there are ways to get out of a triangle, even when it’s in deep (you don’t have much time though), or an armbar. And yes, if the guy is strong enough it is actually possible to muscle your way out of submissions.
There was a guy who trained at the school I train at who had been a division 1 All American football player (actually had come up through the ranks with Mark Chmura) who was actually strong enough to simply muscle his way out of submissions (and keep in mind that he could do so even against the higher ranked students). It really was quite scary how strong he actually was. He “shouldn’t” have been able to do some of the things he could do, but he could do them anyway.