thoughts on nutrition?
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Reference:
The Weider System Of Bodybuilding (1983 Joe Weider/Bill Reynolds)
Total Nutrition: The Only Guide You’ll Ever Need (1995 Victor Herbert/Genell J. Subak-Sharpe)
The Ultimate Training System-Periodization Breakthrough (1996 Steven Fleck/William Kraemer)
Bodyopus (1996 Dan Duchaine)
The Isocalorie ‘No Diet’ Fat Burning Handbook (1996 NEXT Nutrition/Duchaine/Poliquin, etc)
High Performance Sports Conditioning (2001 Bill Foran)
[/quote]
Duchaine was great.[/quote]
He was the first person I read that could explain various approaches to dieting and the advantages / disadvantages of each, without sounding like he was selling something. It was a big turning point for me. [/quote]
Oh yeah, Duchaine’s pieces in the old Muscle Media were the first time someone really pulled the curtain back from the “just eat everything” advice I’d hear in the gym, and addressed the fact that there are serious chemicals and hormone based stuff going on when we eat!
Thanks for sharing in this thread and elsewhere on the site.
S
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I intended to include this with the post about physique and symmetry goals.
[/quote]
Good to see more of your views on training! Strong as hell and in great shape. You walk the walk man.
I’m glad you posted the above. These seem like some lofty, yet attainable, goals for a natty. Something to shoot for!
Nutrition:
Although my food choices and macro %s have changed over time, I have never found it difficult to eat the same meals throughout the week. IMO…the feed back is more consistent and it is much easier to draw the line between ‘cause and effect’ that way. I increase or decrease calories by changing the portion size. I was introduced to the concept of macros and calorie counting from the very beginning and it folded neatly into my QC/Process Control background. The idea of gross vs net carbs emerged long after I started and although I believe the concept has merit, I have never adopted the approach…I count everything. Under the right circumstance I believe ‘calculated & planned’ re-feeds/cheat meals have their place, but calculated and planned is not anything goes. IMO…even during periods of surplus a lifter should have a handle on their total calories and macros…doing otherwise IS NOT bulking. IMO…the process starts with knowing what the current maintenance level is (ex. if I want to drive to Houston; even if I have a detailed map of Texas; I have to know if I’m in Dallas or Lubbock before I can plan my trip).
In the late eighties and early nineties the most common macro %s was 30%9/55-60%C/10-15F for 6-8 meals per day. This left few options; especially for carbs; made surplus periods very challenging and deficits terribly boring[red meat was recommended two meals a week max]. My maitenance was about 3800/day and I consumed 4500/day during surplus [cheat days at 6000]. After two foolish atempts at aggressive deficits (1800-2200/day)I discovered that I could loose weight fairly easily at 3200 and rarely have been below 2800 since. To this day I would argue that these ratios were the worst ‘muscle preserving’ macros I ever ran on a deficit.
In 92 during a meet prep while I was bitching about feeling worn down my wife mentioned that she thought my ‘enthusiam’ during sex was noticeably better the day after I ate red meat and suggested we try 5 days with a red meat meal instead of two. Well I certainly wasn’t going to take that shit laying down(pun intended)and after a week like that I felt much better, was just as lean, and ended up having my best meet to date. During a deficit in 93 or 94 I was eating white potatos as my starch during the lunch meal (just poke holes in that thing, microwave and eat) and noticed what I came to relize were hypoglycemic symptoms. An investigation commenced and I found the glycemic index. The first thing i did was swap the potato and rice meals. A short time later (in powerlifting USA) I read an article suggesting that up to 30% of calories from fats and reducing carbs to about 40% would improve performance and body comp… When I read that article in PL USA it confirmed what I had begun to suspect. That led to Dan Duchiane, Mario Di Pasquale, Poliquin, etc. During the deficit period in 95 I used flax seed oil on pasta for the lunch startch and was amazed at how much easier the diet was…I maitained my strength levels and more LBM than I had ever before. Little by little I added healthy fats and red meat to the routine. My maitenance calories dropped to about 3500/day, I could gain steadily at 4000 and 3200 worked great for a deficit.
In my mid forties I started to play around with removing all starches(bread, potato, rice, pasta, oatmeal)from my routine and scheduling weekly re-feeds. During a surplus I may add rice to the ocasional lunch if I have a particularly difficult sessions scheduled or I may ‘backload’ a starch meal if I’m feeling ultra-low. IMO…this has improved my year round bodycomp., especially during surplus periods.
The most intersting thing I’ve read recently has been Kiefer’s ‘Carbohydrate Backloading’ protocal. Although I haven’t adopted it myself, I am working with a former strongman that is converting to powerlifting. He dropped from 290 to 250 using ‘Carbnite’ and we are beginning to use the ‘Backloading’ approach to see what happens.
@BCT - great response and LOL at the red meat story.
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so what approx split would you recommend now between P, C and F?
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what are your preferred fat sources?
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what are your thoughts on workout nutrition?
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what supplements do you take, including any general health supps?
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Awesome thanks man.
You are inspiring.
If you are ever in Houston would love to sit over a plate of brisket and bullshit with you. [/quote]
I don’t get out of the office much, but we have shipped ‘bookoo’ materials to Freeport and Port Arthur recently…it could happen. [/quote]
Lol I just launched a site in Port Arthur, just got back from there right now.
One of our clients is opening a hiring office and we do all their pre-employment medical.
Just an open invitation. Took Edgy out and feed him and got him a few drinks.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Awesome thanks man.
You are inspiring.
If you are ever in Houston would love to sit over a plate of brisket and bullshit with you. [/quote]
I don’t get out of the office much, but we have shipped ‘bookoo’ materials to Freeport and Port Arthur recently…it could happen. [/quote]
Lol I just launched a site in Port Arthur, just got back from there right now.
One of our clients is opening a hiring office and we do all their pre-employment medical.
Just an open invitation. Took Edgy out and feed him and got him a few drinks. [/quote]
You are lucky you got any food…I hear that Viking is a hoover.
bluecollar - how have you managed to squat heavy for decades? more often than not I see that people have to drop it from their training as they get older and their back/knees/hips can’t take any more
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Awesome thanks man.
You are inspiring.
If you are ever in Houston would love to sit over a plate of brisket and bullshit with you. [/quote]
I don’t get out of the office much, but we have shipped ‘bookoo’ materials to Freeport and Port Arthur recently…it could happen. [/quote]
Lol I just launched a site in Port Arthur, just got back from there right now.
One of our clients is opening a hiring office and we do all their pre-employment medical.
Just an open invitation. Took Edgy out and feed him and got him a few drinks. [/quote]
You are lucky you got any food…I hear that Viking is a hoover.
[/quote]
Yea I had to watch my sould for sure. 
I was with his boss and other co-workers
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
bluecollar - how have you managed to squat heavy for decades? more often than not I see that people have to drop it from their training as they get older and their back/knees/hips can’t take any more[/quote]
I have been very fourtunate.
Although I had the occasional back strain, I was ‘golden’ from the waist down until my early forties. Around that time I developed some discomfort in my right hip and soreness in my knees from time to time. I started out with a ‘high bar-narrow stance’ and evolved wider over-time. After my hip started ‘chirping’ I gradually moved the stance in, but have maintained the lower bar placement. No longer using extensions as a progression movement and wearing sleeves during leg work has reduced/eliminated the knee soreness.
Longevity is about adjustments.
In 2010 I started scheduling the squat every other week and made other changes to the routine. I end one session with heavy paused reps and the other with a heavy high rep set(15+)and follow that with ‘locked knee-toe-touching’ straight-leg deadlifts, 45* Hyperextensions, and seated calve. The other leg day I use hacks/presses/hamstring curls/adductor/abductor/natural ham-raises/extensions/step ups/various calves…and keep the reps at 8 or more. During the back session ahead of the squat I only perform ‘supported’ rowing movements and save bar, t-bar, etc rowing for the other back day.
For the last couple of years unless I am eating a meal or in a meeting I stand at work. I swear I have less ‘overall’ body discomfort/tightness since I started.
thank you! I sincerely appreciate it. I’m going to give standing more a try…I think most of the hip tightness and bad posture I have is from sitting all day
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
@BCT - great response and LOL at the red meat story.
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so what approx split would you recommend now between P, C and F?
-
what are your preferred fat sources?
-
what are your thoughts on workout nutrition?
-
what supplements do you take, including any general health supps?
[/quote]
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Although this might not be the starting point…If the goal is development and performance I like protein in the low to mid thirties (1.25-1.50 grams/lb), carbs in the low forties (about 2.0 grams/lb), and fats in the mid. twenties (.5-.6 grams/lb). As bodycomp becomes more of a priority or as a lifter ages, I like the total grams of carbs (starches in particular) reduced much closer to 1.0 g/lb. In some situations; providing other variables are manipulated properly; I think much lower levels of carbohydrate for set periods of time can produce amazing results.
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Coconut oil, Avocados, Oilive oil, & Black oilives.
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Workout Nutrition is critical. My post-W/O remains the same during surplus or deficit with rare exception. [24g whey isolate, 30g whey hydrolysate, 30g waxy maize, 10g BCAA, 5g leucine, 5g creatine mono., 5g metamucil]. Pre-workout during surplus [24g whey isolate, 15g gatorade powder, 5g BCAA, 5g leucine, 5g creatine mono., 5g beta-alinine, 6g citruline malate, 5g arginine, 5g metamucil] During a deficit I remove the gatorade powder. If I was running a routine that included starches, like the routine I used in #1 above; I would include the pre-workout carbs regarless of the goal.
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V-C / V-B / TL-Super Choline / Co-Q10 / Turmeric/ ZMA / Zinc / Yohimbine hcl / TL-L-Tyrosine+ / GNC-Colon Care / Concentrated DHA/EPA Fish Oil Caps / Cinnamon w/chromium / NA-R-ALA / pumpkin seed oil caps / primrose oil caps / baby asprin / digestive enzyme caps / a joint formula / **and the items listed above.
FTR…I check my blood sugar and blood pressure every morning. My BP daily average since the first of the year is 122/83 with a 83HR. My 7/15/30 day sugar is 92/95/95.
Please can you post up your diet and training schedule for your summer cut from 224 to 200
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
Please can you post up your diet and training schedule for your summer cut from 224 to 200[/quote]
Training:
This year I chose a target date of May 25th and scheduled a ten week run that started March 17th. I train in the afternoon from 4:00/4:15 until 6:00/6:30 and Sat. morning ‘fasted’. I also walk the dogs in the park on Sunday from 1.5 - 3.0 miles, but don’t consider that training.
I plan to train 6 days on with 1 rest day; although there is some variation, this is the basic layout.
Mon.: Cardio, Back, Calve, Ab
Tue.: Cardio, Chest, Tricep, Ab
Wed.: Cardio, Bicep, Forearm, Ab
Thu.: Cardio, Legs, Calve, Ab
Fri.: Cardio, Shoulder, Tricep, Ab
Sat.: Cardio, Bicep, Forearm, Calve, Ab
Sun.: REST - Walk w/dogs
I do a minimum of 20 minutes of cardio year round and keep that the same for the first two weeks. On March 31st I increased it to 22 minutes a session for the last two weeks. Beginning this afternoon[4/15] I will increase it to 24 minutes a session for the next two weeks. I will add 2 minutes ‘as required’ up to a maximum of 30 minutes. I add 10-15 minutes of treadmill walking here and there, but it is not structured. I also perform some interval/HIT type work ahead of specific training days [works great as a lead-in to my light leg day].
I monitor rest intervals closely, superset a bit more often, and add some ‘calorie deficit’ work to the routine…supersetting upper-body w/jumping jacks/rope, supersetting all bicep work w/ab work, etc.
Nothing revolutionary. It isn’t a dramatic departure from my standard routine, but there is a slight increase in volume and decrease in intensity.
do you alter your diet during this period?
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
Please can you post up your diet and training schedule for your summer cut from 224 to 200[/quote]
Diet:
I use a min.-max. approach to my diet in surplus and deficit. The first thing I do is suspend the additions to the baseline routine and use ‘minor’ re-feeds for the first two weekends.
My baseline is 275g protein, 150g carbohydrate[gross], 150g fat. 3,050 calories - 36/20/44. I estimate this to be 400-500 cal/day below maitenance. I eat red meat at most baseline meals and eat chicken, seafood, etc. during re-feeds. There are two solid meals and pre-workout prior to training and post-workout and one solid meal after. I currently do not eat breakfast, but do the tablespoon of coconut oil & 10g of whey in my first cup of coffee on everyday but Sat…
Mon.- baseline only
Tue.- baseline only
Wed.- baseline only
Thu.- baseline only
Fri.- baseline w/exception of last meal. Last meal is I-Hop; I have an omelet made to order and substitute an english muffin for the pancakes. The omelet macros are essentially the same as the baseline last meal and the muffin adds 25g of carbs to the day.
Sat.- I have post-workout & eat two solid meals on Sat. #1 is 8-10oz of meat and 2-4oz of cheese w/2 servings of vegetables. #2 is the re-feed. If it is a minor refeed I add 1 serving of starch(40-60g)to the baseline last meal and may or may not have 1-3 servings ice cream w/pecans for dessert.
A major re-feed goes something like this…
10-12oz grilled chicken breast
1 cup rice
1 cup refried beans
1 cup grilled tomato & pepper
2-3 flour tortilla
sour cream, guacamole, cheese
(1,525 calories: 110g/125g/65g)
3 servings Ice Cream w/2oz pecans
(1,105: 20g/65g/85g)
The major re-feed doubles+ the baseline gross carbohydrates.
Sun. I eat two solid meals on Sunday. #1 is similar to the #1 meal on Saturday and #2 is red meat and grilled vegetables.
I base my decision for the type of re-feed on a combination of performance and appearance. My goal is always to eat the maximum amount of food while maintaining scheduled progress. With the exception of the initial drop I never like to drop any faster than 2lbs/week. When/if a calorie reduction is required I make small changes to portion size [ex. from 2oz of walnuts to 1oz, from a whole orange to 1/2, from 8oz of ground meat to 6oz, etc]. Once I reach the goal weight and am happy with my appearance I will add minor re-feeds as required to avoid dropping further body weight and/or to aid my performance during training.
BlueCollar- Do you think you could get a bit into the lower back strain/tear rehab and recovery process. For example how much strength you lost, how long it took to come back, lifts you avoided, anything you wish you had done differently. Thanks
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
BlueCollar- Do you think you could get a bit into the lower back strain/tear rehab and recovery process. For example how much strength you lost, how long it took to come back, lifts you avoided, anything you wish you had done differently. Thanks [/quote]
Although I had delt with a number of strains prior to, I knew something was different the moment it happened. The pain was unbearable and I was unable to stand unassisted. I vomited twice on the way to get ice and spent the next hour on my knees, drapped over a bench with ice on my back. While in the car driving home the pain just vanished and was replaced with numbness that ran down the inside of my left leg from my groin to my knee. I had no pain or mobility issues but when the numbness had not improved after two days I went to see the Doctor. He did an evaluation and ran an ‘impedance’ test to determine if there was nerve obstruction or muscle damage. It was determined that the muscle was fine and I had a nerve ‘crowding’ issue from the disc tear/inflamation. We discussed rehab protocols and I designed and started self-rehab the following day.
Step #1 is to stabilize the area: Low-load movements worked well (bird dogs, bridges, fire hydrants, planks, dead bugs, inverted bird dogs, cat & camel, leg lifts, clam shells, etc)
Step #2 is to condition the area: air-squats, reverse hypers, reverse crunches, 45* hypers, leg scissors, low-cable pull thoughs, etc. (when returning from a lay-off or injury you must 'Go long, before strong)
Step #3 is to gradually re-introduce the primary movements: Again I believe you must prioritize conditioning before strength. That means 4-6 months of high rep. work before anything heavy.
It effected all my quad. specific and compound lower-body work; one day I could squat 500x5, the next day I couldn’t squat my bodyweight without shifting everything onto the right leg. I lost a full inch from my left leg, and my tear-drop dis-appeared. Roughly 14 months later I tripled 410, and somewhere between 18-24 months I noticed my left tear-drop had returned.
It is always easy to say ‘I would have done x differently…’, I don’t do that. I will say that I am certain to include ‘low back’ isolation work in my routines since resuming normal training.
There are no movements that I did before the injury that I stopped after.
Thanks so much. Before starting phase 2 were you completely symtom free? I strained my lower back 4 months ago, I believe you commented in another thread about it. Nowhere near as serious as you. I just have a stiffness in the are now its hard to describe and I’m wondering if I’m ready to start light squats/deads.
[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
Thanks so much. Before starting phase 2 were you completely symtom free? I strained my lower back 4 months ago, I believe you commented in another thread about it. Nowhere near as serious as you. I just have a stiffness in the are now its hard to describe and I’m wondering if I’m ready to start light squats/deads. [/quote]
First…as I have mentioned; if you have an injury that hasn’t healed in four months you need to see a Doctor before you do much of anything.
Is is a stiffness that goes away when you warm-up, gets worse, or doesn’t change?
What specifically have you done to stabilize the area?