When is your next med check? You could get labs done at 2 months.
You will want to ask for serum E2, not total estrogens.
You will need to sell optimal E2 levels, not “in range”.
Gyno is obviously not a valid criteria, it is a gross failure.
125mg/wk may take you to TT=1000.
With adex and TRT, my prostate [urine flow] is better than before 2 years ago.
With my E2 in the lower 20’s, I continue to loose fat. Now very little, even around the umbilicus.
Zinc is not an AR, but, from what I have read, reduces the amount of aromatase. Although other things that I have read of a medical stature refer its action as anti aromatase. Well, aromatase activity is reduced when there is less aromatase. I have not seen ample amount of material to clear this up completely.
E2 might bite you, but if you take action to reduce it, you may have lab results that tell the doctor that no action is needed.
I know that I am blitzing info… I can’t say enough about the importance of E control.
Well, by now the OP has probably figured out that (1) KSman is far more knowledgeable than his doctor, and (2) he will have to treat himself.
In 4 years of TRT, I have never (repeat: never) met a doctor who knew much of anything, much less about TRT. I’m including alleged ‘specialists’ — they are a joke.
I am however excepting the docs who actually do TRT, want $2000 up front, and a $200/month maintenance fee. As professional steroid dealers, they are knowledgeable.
OP: unless you are loaded, you will have to self-medicate. Order less than a 3 month supply of anything and you should be alright.
After one week, your free T will be about 1/2. After another week, you loose half of that and will have 1/4th of the FT you started with [day 2 or 3].
Not an attempt to hijack here, but it is my understanding that the release of free T is not a linear function.
The bloodstream draws from the original 100% deposit, after 8 days it draws from 50% of the original deposit etc…
This leads me to think it is a proportional situation and the slow decline of free T depends on the unique metabolism of the individual.
The blood levels of cypionate peak 24-48 hours after injection and then decline slowly. The blood levels reach a steady point 12 days after initial injection and stay there for over three weeks. Cypionate is normally injected once a week, which makes the very lowest dose higher than half the peak dose at any given time.
Testosterone cypionate is an injectable oil which contains testosterone with the cypionate ester attached to the testosterone molecule. The ester denotes the release pattern of the test after it is injected into the body. This particular ester gives the testosterone an active life of 15-16 days, although blood levels of this drug fall sharply five days post-administration, testosterone levels are still above baseline after a week (24). Stable blood levels can be achieved with once per week injections.
Testosterone Cypionate is simply testosterone which has undergone 17beta-estrification, to allow for a steady release over the course of about a week.
I’ve seen charts with 12 days listed…The insert states half-life is 8 days.
HeadHunter: You are correct, I do believe KSman knows more than my doctor. But I am not prepared to go outside legal means to treat myself. I believe 125 mg a week is sufficient to get me where I need to be. I am, however, considering skipping an injection prior to 7 days before my next bloodwork. My doc mentioned getting me to 400-500 TT. If I feel fine at that level, no problem. But I don’t want to be tied to a number, which is what my doc seems to focus on, rather than how I feel.
KSman: Would you suggest I start taking nn OTC AI, Nolvadex, 6-OXO, at this point?
Thanks to all for your replies…the docs don’t seem to know enough, so the info helps us all.
[quote]fedorov wrote:
After one week, your free T will be about 1/2. After another week, you loose half of that and will have 1/4th of the FT you started with [day 2 or 3].
Not an attempt to hijack here, but it is my understanding that the release of free T is not a linear function.
The bloodstream draws from the original 100% deposit, after 8 days it draws from 50% of the original deposit etc…
This leads me to think it is a proportional situation and the slow decline of free T depends on the unique metabolism of the individual.[/quote]
You are correct. But each half life leaves one with 1/2 of the prior. The second week you loose 1/2 of the 1/2 left, that is a loss of 1/4 of of the starting peak. That is indeed not linear. There is always the effect of individual responses. Published 1/2 life figures are an average of the test group.
[quote]backn2it wrote:
KSman, care to comment? Some stuff off the net:
The blood levels of cypionate peak 24-48 hours after injection and then decline slowly. The blood levels reach a steady point 12 days after initial injection and stay there for over three weeks. Cypionate is normally injected once a week, which makes the very lowest dose higher than half the peak dose at any given time.
*** They are stating that weekly injections leave one with lows that are 1/2 the peaks… not good for some. And, the peak drives higher E and SHBG numbers that make the 1/2-peak levels very ineffective - you feel like crap!
Testosterone cypionate is an injectable oil which contains testosterone with the cypionate ester attached to the testosterone molecule. The ester denotes the release pattern of the test after it is injected into the body. This particular ester gives the testosterone an active life of 15-16 days, although blood levels of this drug fall sharply five days post-administration, testosterone levels are still above baseline after a week (24). Stable blood levels can be achieved with once per week injections.
*** The 15-16 day number is considered to be the clearance time where T levels fall to baseline. There is no stable level with weekly injections… totally bogus! “Fall sharply … stable levels”. States that levels are !still! above baseline after one week, but SHBG and E are also above baseline. The sense of well being at day 7 can be worse than when TRT started, from secondary effects on E and SHBG, plus the feeling of been let down [roller coaster]. All of this and the two above paragraphs are conflicting or self conflicting.
Testosterone Cypionate is simply testosterone which has undergone 17beta-estrification, to allow for a steady release over the course of about a week.
*** “To allow for a steady release over the course of one week” implies design. The esterification only provides the oil solubility. The dispersion rate of the oil into the blood and tissues where the ester group is stripped off is a bio-process consequence not a design. “Steady release” - wrong, the release is anything other than linear. Linear release would be a constant rate then a sharp stop at “one week” when the “tank goes empty”.
[/quote]
The above material presents itself at technical information, but it cannot even support its own weight. Any engineer could poke holes in the above material, mostly with no prior knowledge of any TRT information.
Hey guys is there a serious problem for someone who has normal all these hormones: TT levels (410), FT, LH, FSH, SHBG, E2, PRL but above normal E1 (estrone > 1.8 with high normal level: 1.5). Thanks.
[quote]ab1975 wrote:
Hey guys is there a serious problem for someone who has normal all these hormones: TT levels (410), FT, LH, FSH, SHBG, E2, PRL but above normal E1 (estrone > 1.8 with high normal level: 1.5). Thanks.[/quote]
[quote]KSman wrote:
fedorov wrote:
After one week, your free T will be about 1/2. After another week, you loose half of that and will have 1/4th of the FT you started with [day 2 or 3].
Not an attempt to hijack here, but it is my understanding that the release of free T is not a linear function.
The bloodstream draws from the original 100% deposit, after 8 days it draws from 50% of the original deposit etc…
This leads me to think it is a proportional situation and the slow decline of free T depends on the unique metabolism of the individual.
You are correct. But each half life leaves one with 1/2 of the prior. The second week you loose 1/2 of the 1/2 left, that is a loss of 1/4 of of the starting peak. That is indeed not linear. There is always the effect of individual responses. Published 1/2 life figures are an average of the test group.[/quote]
The point I was trying to get across is that the half life relates to the original deposit of T cyp. The amount at any point in time in the blood and tissues does not reduce by the same proportion. Is this not correct?
I was referring to the remaining older overlapping t cyp deposits, not T in tissues or serum.
I have no idea what the serum TT or FT decay half-life would be. Part of that for FT is a component in the FT determined T cyp half-life.
[quote]fedorov wrote:
KSman wrote:
fedorov wrote:
After one week, your free T will be about 1/2. After another week, you loose half of that and will have 1/4th of the FT you started with [day 2 or 3].
Not an attempt to hijack here, but it is my understanding that the release of free T is not a linear function.
The bloodstream draws from the original 100% deposit, after 8 days it draws from 50% of the original deposit etc…
This leads me to think it is a proportional situation and the slow decline of free T depends on the unique metabolism of the individual.
You are correct. But each half life leaves one with 1/2 of the prior. The second week you loose 1/2 of the 1/2 left, that is a loss of 1/4 of of the starting peak. That is indeed not linear. There is always the effect of individual responses. Published 1/2 life figures are an average of the test group.
The point I was trying to get across is that the half life relates to the original deposit of T cyp. The amount at any point in time in the blood and tissues does not reduce by the same proportion. Is this not correct?
[/quote]
Doc says estradiol is in range, but we know this is too high. Is there anything I can buy legally to bring down the E? Doc would not discuss arimidex, etc.
125 mg a week, that’s correct. I thought I would be higher as well. Doc now has me on 150 mg a week, starting today. Before next visit in 2 months, I am having an MRI of pituitary. The first doc I saw is now practicing elsewhere, so I am under the care of another doc in the same office, 60+ years old, been in practice since 1975. First doc thought I was primary, the new one suspects secondary.
Doc says estradiol is in range, but we know this is too high. Is there anything I can buy legally to bring down the E? Doc would not discuss arimidex, etc.
Thanks for responses.[/quote]
E2=47 can create major problems. Normal range does not mean normal or optimal sense of well-being. Tell him that you will feel much better with E2 in the lower 20’s. E2=22 would be a good target.
E2=37 was killing me when my TT=1000 and FT in the 30’s. E=47 with your TT and FT numbers sounds really bad to me.
You are on your own for arimidex/anastrozole. You should start on 1mg/wk in divided doses. A liquid product is preferred to allow dose adjustments. Dose EOD. With your higher E2, you may need more. Read up and know the symptoms of being an adex over responder.
I’ve made an appt. next Tuesday with a wellness center that deals with HRT. I feel more comfortable if I can have a doctor manage my E2 than experimenting on myself. Hopefully they will be receptive to the use of AI and HCG. Will post again after appt.
I’ve managed to get a bottle of l-dex. I was told that 4 drops would equal .25 mg of a-dex, and I should take eod. Does this sound right? Thanks for replies.
Latest update: Have been on 150mg test cyp for 3 months, 6 drops of l-dex ETD. Total t=724,(241-847) free t=20.6, (7.2-24.0). Libido improved, body fat down. I am seeing hair on upper arms where I didn’t have any before, and hair in pubic area and stomach is increased. Had to trim it down there, was like trying to find a needle in a haystack! I expected changes right away, but this does take time. Definitely feeling the effects now. thanks to KSman for his input.
