[quote]swenjj wrote:
is that just naturaly high or are you taking supplements or other things?[/quote]
I’m currently injecting 400 mg/week of Testosterone Cypionate. I also have some old Androgel left over from my previous misadventures with the crappy doctors around here. Sometimes that gets thrown into the mix.
I’m thinking of stopping the Androgel; would like to be around 700 ng/dl or so, with E2 (Estradiol) way down. High T is fine though as long as its not converting.
Good Sunday evening to you:
I’m 64, and I think I’d be cutting back. I too feel good, but that high I’d be worried about overdoing it a bit. You have got some real good years ahead, don’t risk them unnecessarily.
HH, glad you’re still feeling good, I sort of lost that wonderful feeling this past month, and I thought it was due to my E doubling up to 44. But 95, and you’re still feel great!? WTF? I guess the mail order non-prescription anti-E stuff isn’t working, huh. Maybe when my T gets up to 1000 or so I’ll feel like I did the first two months. I just bought Gaspari Novadex, mainly because they had it locally and others on T-Nation have touted it. But this optimal T/E thing is tricky.
Probably everyone's got differing individual response points to both T and E levels, like Ksman suggests. The more we can get people to post their experiences, the more we can collectively learn about things the docs obviously don't know. And don't worry, no rant today.
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
HH, glad you’re still feeling good, I sort of lost that wonderful feeling this past month, and I thought it was due to my E doubling up to 44. But 95, and you’re still feel great!? WTF? I guess the mail order non-prescription anti-E stuff isn’t working, huh. Maybe when my T gets up to 1000 or so I’ll feel like I did the first two months. I just bought Gaspari Novadex, mainly because they had it locally and others on T-Nation have touted it. But this optimal T/E thing is tricky.
Probably everyone’s got differing individual response points to both T and E levels, like Ksman suggests. The more we can get people to post their experiences, the more we can collectively learn about things the docs obviously don’t know. And don’t worry, no rant today.
BTW, what are your lifts up to these days?
Doc[/quote]
I’ve been doing Novedex as well. Will begin Arimidex on Friday. I should have had some better anti-E on hand; never thought my T would shoot through the roof like that from such a low amount of Cyp. I know guys who are or have done up to 2 grams/week of Cyp and, of course, they took the ancillaries.
I’m currently into Rest-Pause. My squat is only 285, which I do 10 reps, each rep seperated by 20 seconds. For the first few reps I don’t rack the weight. I know its a sissy weight for a guy my size but I’ve never had a lot of lower body strength. I do a similar scheme with 405 in the bench, but I rack the weight. Both of these are up since June, 235 and 360 repectively.
Huge increases in lifts in four months, at our age! And you feel great, congratulations.
You asked me a damn good question once, now its my turn. You’re doing HRT fairly aggressively, even though I know many BB’s and strength athletes do a lot more T than 400 Cyp/wk, but that’s not technically HRT is it? Was the dose pushed up because lower doses weren’t curing the andropause blues, or for other reasons (like loving being an animal in the gym again)?
I’m ready to get Arimidex because I’m sure my E is now probably 60 plus since I went up from 125 to 175 T cyp and I still haven’t regained my good feelings and good wood. I’ll be interested to see how we both do with the A.I. added. For me, getting the highest physiological range free T is a goal only in the service of feeling like a healthy, clear-headed virile man again. The bigger muscles and bigger lifts, though very rewarding, are still secondary. That may be the biggest difference between me now and me in my twenties. Back then, size, strength and performance meant EVERYTHING. Doc
Interesting tracking your treatment as I think you and I have had a lot of similar experiences. I am a year and a half in, and still feeling crappy most of the time. The only thing that makes any sense to me is that I was a high normal before my testicles failed.
Doc just let me go to 200mg/1ML of test enan every week, but he made a lot of ominous sounds about what a high dosage that was and that I must increase freq of hormone and liver labs.
How did you convince your doc to go w 400mg a week?
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Huge increases in lifts in four months, at our age! And you feel great, congratulations.
You asked me a damn good question once, now its my turn. You’re doing HRT fairly aggressively, even though I know many BB’s and strength athletes do a lot more T than 400 Cyp/wk, but that’s not technically HRT is it? Was the dose pushed up because lower doses weren’t curing the andropause blues, or for other reasons (like loving being an animal in the gym again)?
I’m ready to get Arimidex because I’m sure my E is now probably 60 plus since I went up from 125 to 175 T cyp and I still haven’t regained my good feelings and good wood. I’ll be interested to see how we both do with the A.I. added. For me, getting the highest physiological range free T is a goal only in the service of feeling like a healthy, clear-headed virile man again. The bigger muscles and bigger lifts, though very rewarding, are still secondary. That may be the biggest difference between me now and me in my twenties. Back then, size, strength and performance meant EVERYTHING. Doc[/quote]
The doctor treating me here wanted me to do 100 mg/every 2 weeks. Knowing how that’s just plain dumb, I ‘supplemented’ this amount, the details of which I can’t go into. However, this did work for me, a little too well in fact.
I mostly got into this because of my job. I teach high school and it seriously is a BIG drain to run classes. Imagine trying to get 16 year olds to love (or at least do) proofs!! So, had the Test evaluated after slowly going downhill, had to literally force the doc to test it. Now 3 years later, I kind of gave up on doctors ever helping me and decided to help myself.
I’m hoping to find a doc who’ll simply find the best level of T for me and help keep estradiol under control. They want the minimum, I want to enjoy life. That conflict precludes me getting my T right legally.
So, in answer to your question, technically, I’m doing steroids. HRT was not enough for me. I love steroids, I love feeling like a man again. If some judge wants to lock me up for that, then he can go right ahead.
[quote]e-loo wrote:
Headhunter wrote: I’m currently injecting 400 mg/week of Testosterone Cypionate.
Interesting tracking your treatment as I think you and I have had a lot of similar experiences. I am a year and a half in, and still feeling crappy most of the time. The only thing that makes any sense to me is that I was a high normal before my testicles failed.
Doc just let me go to 200mg/1ML of test enan every week, but he made a lot of ominous sounds about what a high dosage that was and that I must increase freq of hormone and liver labs.
How did you convince your doc to go w 400mg a week?
[quote]bigdawg011 wrote:
Headhunter, I got those levels (near identical) with 140mg per week.
Where are you injecting?[/quote]
I just started dividing the dose (duh, should’ve done it sooner!). I do 200 mg in a quad on Mondays and 200 in the opposing glute on Thursday. A good friend, who knows what he’s doing, does the glute pin.
I’m starting to feel really good again. Dividing the dose rocks!!
I’m seriously considering KSman’s EOD protocol. Seriously guys, dividing the dose (which means more jabs though) is good, if you don’t mind the pins! Wow!!
Seems to me 400 mg per week is more cycle then HRT. You are going to be on top of the world for awhile, but eventually it seems like that can catch up with you in regard to high estrodial/aromatase. Keep posting your progress as it is interesting.
FWIW - I’m 56. I started off with a T to E ratio of about 8 and felt like crap. Through diet (supps) and exercise (and fat loss) I was able to get the ratio up to about 14 and started feeling good, which compared to how crappy I felt before was like a miracle. Morning wood and decent libido.
Back then I said I felt great. However, my T to E ratio now is about 38 and everything is even better. I pretty much feel and function like I did in my twenties. My E is 21 and my T is 800.
I’ve experimented a lot and taking ZMA and L-Arginine also makes a difference.
Look, it isn’t normal to feel like you’re 25 when you’re 56, but seriously, fuck normal. Yeah, I color outside the lines and yeah, I lie to my doctor. But I get regular blood work and I discuss the results with my doc; I just tell him that tribulus is wonderful stuff. He has plausible deniability and I have a life. I really don’t care what labels you hang on what I’m doing, it’s the results that matter.
Hey all you guys, I appreciate the honesty. I’m not here to judge, I’m here to learn and understand. Maybe contribute a little as well. HRT is a great thing, but the guidelines set up are arbitrary, with obvious problems areas (like E/HCG,A.I’s) due to the newness of the field and inexperience of the docs involved.
I’m playing it a bit mysterious with pictures, name and such because I’m looking into doing Age Management, but I’m obviously no fan of the powers that be. Yet another conflict. But I’m also no saint; I didn’t clean and jerk 420 in college taking just Hoffman’s protein powder.
Despite my occasional severe bouts of pessimism, I think most of us might eventually find a reasonably sane and safe path to feeling great and being better than “normal,” because normal pretty much sucks. This site helps a lot with that goal. Doc
[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Seems to me 400 mg per week is more cycle then HRT. You are going to be on top of the world for awhile, but eventually it seems like that can catch up with you in regard to high estrodial/aromatase. Keep posting your progress as it is interesting.
D[/quote]
I agree completely. I am going on a low-dose protocol of Arimedex this Friday and will probably reduce the T injects slightly. As I’ve said, I’d like to be in the high-normal range, maybe 700 or 800, with E2 under control.
I am interested in HGH, as studies now show that it does NOT cause cancer (IGF-1 might) and has less sides than Test, unless overdone. HGH and a low dose T regimen…beyond sweet.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
bigdawg011 wrote:
Headhunter, I got those levels (near identical) with 140mg per week.
Where are you injecting?
I just started dividing the dose (duh, should’ve done it sooner!). I do 200 mg in a quad on Mondays and 200 in the opposing glute on Thursday. A good friend, who knows what he’s doing, does the glute pin.
I’m starting to feel really good again. Dividing the dose rocks!!
I’m seriously considering KSman’s EOD protocol. Seriously guys, dividing the dose (which means more jabs though) is good, if you don’t mind the pins! Wow!!
[/quote]
HH
What size pin are you using? Did you ever try the delt? Gives you two more spots to rotate.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
bigdawg011 wrote:
Headhunter, I got those levels (near identical) with 140mg per week.
Where are you injecting?
I just started dividing the dose (duh, should’ve done it sooner!). I do 200 mg in a quad on Mondays and 200 in the opposing glute on Thursday. A good friend, who knows what he’s doing, does the glute pin.
I’m starting to feel really good again. Dividing the dose rocks!!
I’m seriously considering KSman’s EOD protocol. Seriously guys, dividing the dose (which means more jabs though) is good, if you don’t mind the pins! Wow!!
HH
What size pin are you using? Did you ever try the delt? Gives you two more spots to rotate.
[/quote]
I like the 21s, 1.5". If I did delt, would a 1" be enough?
I draw with an 18 and have used those to inject, though those hurt more than the 21.
I don’t like the smaller gauges, like 23 or 25, because you have to fight to get the stuff in. Rainjack gave me a tip about heating up the loaded syringe on a hot pad set on low., so that helps, whenever I’ve used those.
HH, I too am on HRT, and 200mg/week of T-Cyp gets me to 1025ng/dl. That was before I added A-Dex to my schedule. When I was on 400mg/week (of Sustanon)I slept very little, thought very deeply, and couldn’t get rid of a 24 hour woodie. At first it was fun, though…
My current Endo (phenomenal,btw) prescribes me 200/week T-Cyp, and 2mg/week of A-dex.
BTW, when I was on 400mg/week, my E2 got up to 105 and I felt like crap so I acquired A-dex, and it took me almost a month to feel normal after getting down to 47(E2) in 14 days.
My point is, with your E levels so high, you are probably aromitizing more than the “normal” amount of your T shot. I don’t know what my current E2 and T levels are but will find out soon.
I too used to inject once a week, then went to every 3-1/2 days to help control the E spikes. I have even gone to EOD just as a test, and didn’t really notice any difference in strength or mood. My doctor believes in HCG and uses it often with his HRT patients, He said next week we will discuss a trial dosage to see how I do. ( my boys are slightly sore and shrunken slightly)
I switched from a 22 gauge 1" to 25 gauge 1" and shoot my glutes myself. You might try 200mg/week with a-dex to get you to the 700 range, although it’s quite possible when not converting your T levels may be higher.
cheers
EDIT: Got HCG today from the doc. 250iu 2X week, the day before HRT shots. YEA!