Blood Worked Sucks

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
1

I posted this over on steroid forum but was told that KSman could help me and I see alot of others posting questions about HRT.

I just got my blood work back yesterday. Here are the results.

So the past year has been crap. Injuries left and right. Struggled to get lean. REally frustrated. So I gave in and went to the doctor.

Cholesterol 208
HDL 40
LDL 148

Progesterone 0.3

TSH 3.90 - was almost out of range. doc didnt mention this one either.

RBC 4.47 - doc didnt mention this one so I guess shes not worried

Testosterone
Free S 7.6
Total S 191

Insulin was 5

Also she said my thyroid levels were borderline low.
T3 - 3.8
T4 - 1.46

Estrone was fine at 24

Cortisol was fine at 16.3

I was placed on Armour Thyroid and Transdermal cream consisting of 10mg of test and 10mg of progesterone.

Also got a script for some physical therapy for my shoulder.

I am only 31 and feel way to young to be in this position.

Do you guys think I will have to stay on this stuff forever?

She never mentioned trying to use clomid, hcg, or any other drug/suppelment to get my natural levels back up.

I asked her if I would have to take this forever and she said we will see how you respond.

Should I run some hcg, clomid, or Tribulus Terrestris

My whole goal now is to get back to a lean or semilean state and feel good.

I am skinny fat, weak, tired, and injured. Just want to feel good again!

Injuries I have had a strain or tear in the levator scapula which has plagued me all year, tendonitis or a possible tear in my forearm, bicep tendonitis, trigger points and pain in the scapula region, and finally 2 strains in my lower back. Hell half these injuries I was not even working out and acquired them!

Anyways I will keep you all up to date and if anyone has personal experiences like the one I shared I would love to hear your feedback.

2

Please edit your post above and put in lab ranges.

Age=31
Weight
Waist size
%BF or BMI
Where do you carry fat
Any sign of gyno?
Skin changes, nails, hair
Describe body and facial hair
Any loss of hair on lower legs?

When did this start? After a PCT?
Any blows/whiplash to the head leading up to this problem?
Any loss of peripheral vision?
Any illnesses where your testes hurt or ached?

Estrone or Estradiol?

Thyroid: Are you getting enough iodine? Iodized salt, salt water fish, sea weed, supplements?

EFAs?
Fish oil?
Vitamin-D?

Use of progesterone suggests adrenal/cortisol support. You should also be looking at DHEA-S levels. How do you react to stress? Ever feel beaten up by stress? So you run out of energy at 11 AM and later afternoon? Need to eat or drink something sweet to get going again?

Low thyroid levels often lead to low T levels. Note that many with thyroid issues cannot absorb transdermal T. That non absorption can actually be diagnostic for low thyroid levels.

What is the T-cream % and dose? Apply to inner arms for max absorption. Clip your scrotum and apply some there for greater DHT increase. DHT is vital for libido and sensation. If your penis feels numb, apply a small amount there, but try to avoid transfer to wife/GF.

A typical adex dose is 1.0mg/week in EOD divided doses. Amount depends on your serum T levels. which depends on how well you absorb.

Your ?E2=24? is high for your T levels. That would be a degree of estrogen dominance. You need 250iu hCG EOD for maintance.

TRT is forever unless you can find a major reason for HPTA repression and fix that.

3

Age 31
Wt 185
Waist Size 38" at bellybutton - fatty
Approx body fat 20-25%
Most body fat is in oblique and ab area. If you need me to do a full test using calipers I can.
Body fat around the nipple area but no soreness or puffy nipples.
Skin seems dry.
Body hair seems the same…over the last several years I naturally have more on the shoulders, back, arms.
Top of head normal hair loss. Hair loss runs in the family.

I have used AS on again and off again since I was 23. Usuually will do one long cycle a year 10-16 weeks.
Most cycles never went above a sum total of 600mg a week. Always ran clomid, adex, ndex, and hcg during and/or afterwards.

I did a cycle this summer that ended in June. It was a 12 week cycle of test and win.

I had started a cycle of test/deca (only one injection) that was 2 weeks right before I got tested. Long story short a bunch of injuries flared up and I stopped working out and stopped usage. I didnt even do PCT. I waited 2 weeks after shot and went to doc. Just got blood work back yesterday.

No whiplash however have suffered from tight traps and levator scapulae for a full year now.

As far as vision I have always struggled to see things from distance. Need to get them checked.

No pain in testes or illness like that. I have had allergies all year and some swollen lymph nodes in the throat area on again and off again for several months.

I am sure iodine levels may be low. I do not take any special supplements and I am not sure if I use odized salt…probably not.

I take fish oils daily however stopped all usage prior to test. I actually stopped all supplements period prior to test.

I take whey protein after workout or in morning when in a hurry. ZMA with Gaba before bed. Fish oil 5-10 grams a day. Started taking vit. C at 1000mg am and pm.

I stress out easily over nothing. Runs in the family.

I crave sweets and always have.

I suspected adrenal fatigue before going.

I am about to post lab results next.

4

Estradiol 16.99 normal 7.63-42.59

Free T3 3.8 normal 2.6-4.4
Free T4 1.46 normal 0.8-1.70

Lipid Triglceride 101 less than 150 normal
Chol 208 borderline high 200-239
HDL 40 less than 40 low
LDL 148 borderline high 130-159

Progesterone 0.3 normal 0.2-1.4

TSH 3.9 normal 0.27- 4.2

RBC 4.47 normal 4.8-10.8

Insulin 5 normal 3-17

Testosterone
Free S 7.6 normal 9-30
Total S 191 normal 240-950

Estrone S 24 normal 10-60

Cortisol 16.3 normal 8.0-25.0

5

As far as the cream is it testoerone usp micronized powder progesterone usp micronized

Test/Progest 10mg/10mg/0.2ml cream

Armour Thyroid is 1/2 grain tablet twice a day.

6

My dad and his sister are both on Thyroid medication.

My script cost me around $80 for the cream today. I am going to file a claim hope my insurance carrier will cover it.

Thyroid was around $20.

Also wanted to point out that this summer when I was “on” I managed to get down to around 12-13%.

Diet that seems to work well for me is cyclic ketogenic diet. However I have been using this diet on again off again for years and am sick of it.

My diet usually looks like this.

Breakfast
2 omega3 enriched eggs
3 egg whites
V8 juice or piece of fruit
sometimes I will have slow cooked oatmeal

Snack
Greek Yogurt
Either small handful of nuts or piece of fruit

Lunch
Lean cut of meat
Vegetable
Sometimes a starch like wild rice.

Snack
Either a protein shake after workout or the same as snack 1

Dinner:
Lean cut of meat
Vegetable or salad
Sometimes a starch like sweet potato, brown rice, etc.
HOWEVER - I do have dessert (several cookies, brownies, etc.) - ONLY WHEN I AM NOT WATCHING WHAT I EAT, which lately has been alot. :frowning:

The above is standard for Mon - Fri

Weekends can be all over the place.

When I was healthy and training I would train 4 times a week.
Mon - Chest, Quads, Triceps
Tues - Back, Bi, Abs
Thur - Shoulders, Hams, Triceps
Fri - Back, Bi, Abs

Cardio could be as little as 1-2 times a week to as much as 4-5 times a week for 20-40 minutes.

Also wanted to mention if I have not that I am getting physical therapy starting next week for bicep tendonitis as well as several issues in my upper back area.

Also have had tendonitis in forearms since June.

Only other sport I play is golf. Was playing alot (2-3X week) until I got tendonitis in forearm. Been playing maybe once a week since then.

7

Your TSH indicates a thyroid issue, but your Ft3/Ft4 levels are good. I do not know what to make of that. Dry skin is part of low thyroid levels and low testosterone.

If you apply 10mg test to your skin, if you are a good absorber, you will absorb 1mg [10%]. That is 1/7th of the production of a young man. I think that that small dose will simply reduce your HPTA’s production. That looks like dosing for a woman. Is this a homeopathic dose?

Just for perspective, I use .5ml of 5% [25mg]t-cream with my injected T.

If you cream contains 10mg per .2ml, that is 50mg/ml = 5%.

For transdermals to be effective, one needs to apply around 100mg/day.

20% T creams are very effective and cheaper than 10mg of 1% T-gel.

Get some DHEA and take 50mg/day.

8

As far as energy levels. I feel tired alot. I slept a good 8 hours last night and woke up exhausted. I take ZMA plus Gaba and go to sleep fine.

I have felt tired for years now. The main thing that pushed me to go to doctor is my injuries seem to be taking forever to heal, seem very prone to sickness, and finally my battle with body fat. I dont gain weight my composition just shifts from a lean 180 to a fat 180.

I also have used ECA, Clen, Cytomel, and DNP in my past.

9

Some will loose muscle and gain fat then with TRT loose fat and gain muscle with no significant weight changes. But waist size will change! Some fat loss will stall in the trouble areas with TRT if E2 is not controlled. With E2=22pg/ml I was able to get rid of the fat in the difficult areas.

10

Any idea of why my progesterone levels are low?

As far as the dosage of the cream her goal is to get my normal levels back up. If I want to take more how should I confront her. Is there a book that you can recommend that goes more indepth on the subject matter.

I am not wanting to be on HRT forever but if that is what it comes to I guess that is what it comes to.

I have access to pretty much anything. Should I look at supplementing with another drug with my usage?

I do a follow up in three months.

I have some DHEA and can do 50mg per day. How long should I run this?

11

You need to stay on the DHEA and later on adjust dose if needed based on DHEA-S labs.

You want to achieve high normal T levels of a young man, not age adjusted. You can get there with TRT for life. Can you do that on your own? I do not see a plan to get there.

Your doc may be wanting to see where Armour and progesterone take you. The progesterone and DHEA will help with adrenal function.

Swollen lymph nodes suggests an on going hidden infection, which can mess with the adrenals.

Allergies- what drugs are you taking, Rx and OTC currently and when things started to go wrong. What drugs are you taking for injuries and tendonitis? Could this be Lyme disease? There are tests for that.

12

Should I then give the doc a try and run the prescibed two medicines and add my own dhea into the mix?

I have not had the swollen lymph nodes for several months but had it twice this year. Lots of allergies where we live. However prior to this year I may have a sinus infection once a year and that is it. I sneeze daily now and wake up with congestion at least once or twice a week.

Taking no drugs of any type.

Not taking anything for tendon issues.

Lyme disease? Interesting…I may have to do some research into that.

By the way I have a flight that leaves in an hour or two. Wont have internet access until Monday morning.

13

Add the DHEA, one should be taking that anyways as levels drop a lot with age. Not normally needed at your age, but I expecting that your DHEA levels getting lower.

14

UPDATE:

Well got my blood work back and I have gotten my test levels back up to normal:

            Before   After

Cholesterol 208 167
HDL 40 40
LDL 148 111

Progesterone 0.3 0.3

TSH 3.90 3.44

Testosterone
Free S 7.6 22.4 normal (9-30)
Total S 191 606 normal (240-950)

Didnt check insulin, coritsol, T3, or T4 this time.

Estrone 24 30

PSA – 0.424

LH – 6.0
FSH – 1.9

I ended up dropping the test/progesterone cream after 2 months.

I ran the following protocol found over at mesomorphosis.com that Dr. Scalley had shown as an example.
HCG 2500iu Mon and Thur for 4 weeks
Nolv 10mg twice a day for 4 weeks
Clomid 50mg twice a day for 4 weeks

Took two weeks off all these products and went back and got checked.

Test levels look great. However my thyroid is shot. The TSH levels were still high. I am starting armour thyroid. Hopefully I will lean up now. Been busting my ass in the gym and eating pretty clean for 3.5 weeks now and have not seen any weight loss or body fat reduction. Normally it will melt off me at the beginning.

Progesterone was also low and doc recommend me using DHEA. However I think I am going to hold off on that for the time being.

Would love to hear some feedback and hopefully this PCT cycle will help someone else.

Btris