E2 Problems

Hello all,

This question may have been answered here before but I canâ??t find the thread.

A little background

I am on TRT and after going thru the hormone roller coaster of every 2 week shots. I had my doc check TT the day after a shot then 10 days later. Needless to say after going from the top of the range to below the bottom of the range he more than agreed to EOD or E3D shots.

Its been about 6 weeks or so on this schedule and I feel great morning wood and energy are better then the last 4 years. That said I started to feel like I passed thru the sweet spot for E2. Bloating like crazy, puffy nipples and not quiet as horny as I was at all.

Got the Test back today and E2 came back at 49 pg/mL
When I started it was 18 as I had no test to convert.
I was not given an AI as my E2 was so low

So the question is how long will it take for an AI to get my E2 under control?
Can I start with .5mg E3D for an average of 1.25 a week? Or should I do more and back off when the number comes down?
I am on 50mg test E3D for a 125mg a week average

Thanks for the help

I think most guys start with 1 mg/week and adjust from there. I assume you are talking about Arimidex. Don’t do more initially in case you are an over-responder as that will drive your E2 way too low and that can cause problems of its own. Adex will start to work almost immediately as far as preventing further aromatization, but it will take a week or two for your body to flush the excess E2 from your system. You should see changes within that timeframe.

Pcdude: Well said!

Start with 1.0mg per week and if you feel ok after a week, increase to 1.25/week. The rule of thumb is to take 1.0mg/week for every 100mg test ester per week, after starting at 1.0

Watch out for being an over-responder.

Many feel big improvements in 10-14 days. If one has had long term estrogen poisoning, the process of mental changes can take up to 2 months to complete. Your brain makes changes and habits and patterns of thought need to change. That takes time. After only 6 weeks, things should progress quickly.

Please update this post later.

Thanks for the response.

I will start then at the 1mg a week.

I see the Doc next week and will have E2 tests run every week for the next 2 or 3 weeks then monitor monthly. Now that the doc can see T does convert to E as he didnâ??t think it would be an issue.

I will post results as they come in.

The Arimidex I can currently get is .5mg a tab until I can find a liquid source in Canada. Would I notice a better effect by breaking them so I can do EOD or just take one on say Mon and another on Thurs or Fri.

Thanks again.

Reading the sticky and form posts over the last few months has been very helpful in educating my doc on how to properly administer TRT

The half life of anastrozole really requires frequent dosing. See what you can workout.

I would not test one week after starting or changing. It takes time for existing estrogens to clear your body. You will know what is going on by how you feel. Work you way up to 1.25mg then test 3 weeks after that.

I have my complete labs now and have a few questions I would like everyoneâ??s input on.

First the E2 problem seams to under control rather quickly within 48 hours my chest had flattened out and morning wood is stronger again. Iâ??m happy to be feeling better so quick and I will have E2 tested in 3 weeks again.

LABS

This was done in Ontario so they are in SI units, I have done the conversions to US system

Fasting Glucose 4.8mmol/L <3.6-6.00> 86 mg/dl
Cholesterol 4.47mmol/L <=5.19 172mg/dl
Triglycerides 0.79mmol/L <=2.29 69mg/dl
HDL Cholesterol 157mmol/L <1-99999.> 60mg/dl
LDL Cholesterol 2.54mmol/L 98mg/dl
TC/HDL-C Ratio 2.8mmol/L

TSH 1.67 This is down from 3.4 since starting 60mg natural thyroid
Free T4 14 <12-22>
Free T3 6.6 <2.6-5.70>

Hemoglobin A1C .051 <0.04-0.069>

Estradiol 182pmol/L <=156.99 49pg/dl

Now the good stuff

Testosterone 29.1 <7.6-31.40> 838ng/dl
Last 2 tests were 201 and 288
So thatâ??s a huge improvement

Free Test 82.1 <31-94>

Any thoughts on the T3 my doctor is not worried but we may change the thyroid meds to a compound with more T4

And I donâ??t understand what good Cholesterol numbers are

Will post Results in a few weeks of E2

T3: If you feel overheated or get body temps over 98.6F during the day, or feel over-stimulated, then T3 might be too high.

Your E2=49 is a big mess. What dose of anastrozole were on on and for how long?

The dose I took Sat was .5mg. I took another .5mg on Tuesday. I am planning .5mg on Tues and Sat. right now I have caps and I’m going to try and make a suspension in alcohol so that I can do .25mg EOD until I can get a liquid product. I felt better within hours

you don’t have Reverse T3 numbers. I would not increase your T4 until you know what your Reverse T3 looks like. IF you have high RT3, then adding more T4 will just make your RT3 go even higher.

also if you have high RT3, then you probably also have a Cortisol problem. Have you ever had that checked or tested?

If you still have such high E2 with .5mg AI twice a week, then it is probable that you have other imbalances that need to be addressed, your T is too high, or some other supplement is causing problems (i.e. - DHEA converting to Estrogen)

what supplements/medications are you taking?

Cholesterol looks really good. -missed that

More thyroid: Check body temp when you first wake up. A pattern near or below 97F is a problem. 97.8 is ideal. This might shed some light on the fT3 - rT3 issues.

I would like to do the RT3 but my doctor said it is not offered in Ontario. He was going to check how much it would cost to send it to a US lab. I will start to take temps tomorrow. I can say that I’m not cold like I always was anymore and I sweat at the gym something I never did brfore regardless of how hard I worked out.

sweating like that could indicate a problem with Aldosterone. I started having a sweating problem when I switched to T shots. Something about the extra T suppressing my Cortisol (or something) which then suppressed my Aldosterone and also lead to a spike in my RT3.

Low Aldosterone is linked or possibly correlated (I believe) with low cortisol levels, and low cortisol levels are normally linked with high RT3. It is amazing how interconnected everything is. you should check out this hormone cascade chart, but note the amount of data can be pretty overwhelming. http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00140.html

You may be able to further confirm a high RT3 suspicision by getting your AM cortisol checked (or do a 4 part saliva test for daily cortisol levels). If you are low (AM reading of 10 of less), then high RT3 is even more likely.

If we are going to talk about adrenal hormones, one should be testing DHEA-S.

This might be more digestible: Steroid hormone - Wikipedia

Thanks for the input guys,

I know my adrenals were screwed up. A little medical history, about 4 years ago I got very sick and ended up in the hospital. I felt like someone had kicked me in the nuts repeatedly . Than the feeling of someone stabbing me in my abdomen. Iâ??m going to sum up those next few weeks by saying that Iâ??m now on very intimate terms with half the doctors in the hospital.

The end result after Cts and every other test they could run was I had some sort of prostate infection, but they had no idea what it was. I was put on 10 months of crazy ass high antibiotics. I also had a very stressful job and ex wife at the time and getting sick cost me my job.

7 months off work Iâ??m feeling better but not great. I found what I thought was a less stressful job and tried to get on with life. This brings me to early spring 2009. I lost 100lbs over those last few years. I was eating better and more active, but not dieting. At this time my job was nuts 60-70 hour weeks and lots of stress. Again my body broke down. I ended up on medical leave and I was fucked up.
I had seen a doctor the first time I got sick who was a natural, functional and pain specialist as the doctors had no idea what was wrong with me they sent me to him as a last resort. They had told me it was IBS and to live with it. This doctor ran lost of test and seamed to be trying to help. I was not able to get into see him again for over a year. When I got sick in 2009 I begged him to get me in. He ran more tests and went over the ones done the last time I saw him.
Turns out I had low T, low DHEA and tested positive for an allergy to Wheat/gluten and my cortisol was off as well.

It would have been nice for the doc to call me and tell me I had these problems when he ran the tests the first time, but oh well.

He told me to stop eating wheat. And the pain I had endured for years went almost completely away in a few weeks.
He ran more tests and then repeated the tests and my TT never improved but cortisol was now ok but thyroid was screwed up DHEA was still low.

Our theory is that my food allergy caused a cortisol problem that tanked everything else.

I read the adrenal book and changed my diet. Got laid off from my stressful job found a new love and things got better.

As I said before I now feel great now or at least better than I have in years.

I would still like to get the saliva test done and I am saving for it.
I still need to go to the US to buy DHEA as its illegal in Canada.
My doc is trying to find out how much its going to cost to send the RT3 to the US for testing.

Will DHEA help that much?

Any other thoughts?

Look at the steroid hormone link. DHEA is the root of sex steroid production. DHEA, pregnenolone and progesterone are all OTC in the USA. DHEA was OTC in Canada in 1995, then criminalized.

For your adrenals, you should be taking pregnenolone or progesterone to feed cortisol production. You need labs to support that.

Do you live near the USA border? You can do labs on your own, go to USA for lab draw and get results in the mail and email. [Does not work in the State of NY]. You can get DHEA prescribed there.

There are parasites that can get into the prostate. A mostly tropical STD. Anti-biotics do not fix that.

Ask doc for 0.5 mg/week Arimidex/anastrozole to lower E2 levels. You need to take that in EOD dosing if you can. You might be able to get 0.5mg tablets. Best would be compounded 1mg/ml liquid and take by the drop once you figure out drops per ml. Get near E2=22pg/ml and T levels should improve. And what FT you have will work better with less E2 blocking T receptors and with less E, FT fraction should increase too.

“Will DHEA help that much?” The idea is to support health by helping the body with things that it lacks. No miracles, just removing barriers.

Updated tests

TSH .91 <.35-5.00>
FT4 16 <12-22>
FT3 4.8 <2.6-5.7>

Test 645 or 22.4 <7.6-31.4>
Free Test 76 <31-94>
E2 20.7 or 76 <=156.99

So E2 came down very nice. I’m not sure way my Test dropped 200 points as the timing of the test were exactly the same.

I have started to take a liquid AI but have the feeling it is underdosed or bunk as my nipples are getting puffy again and my erections have gotten softer. I had another E2 test today to see whats happening.

It looks as I will have to go to the U.S. to have rt3 done as my doc can’t find a lab he can send it to.

Generaly I feel pretty good but I still have ups and downs that I would like to deal with.

I will be adding HCG and DHEA in the next month or so.

Doc wants to check my GH as well, but I cant afford it so Im waiting on that one.

Does anyone know what the replacment dose for HGH is. I don`t want to take anymore than needed should I start.