Hello everyone. I would just like to say that my deadlift progress has been good with 5/3/1. Since adding rows to my training my grip and upper back are a whole lot stronger. My dead-stop PR for deadlifts is 285 x 12 (I did pull 275 x 16, but it was more like 16 singles because the set took almost 3 minutes). My touch-and-go PR is 295 x 9. However, here’s my problem. I can get nearly anything up to my knees, but it seems as though I have no leg drive to get my hips through. This happened on rep 10, when I reset and went for the rep. It looked easy off the floor, but I just could not propel it any farther. In the interest of not hurting myself, I dropped the rep. I pull beltless, if that means anything. I apologize for the winded post, but do you guys think block pulls from just below the knee are my best option here? Or would you guys recommend something like pause deadlifts, or even more volume work? I currently do just a set of 10 @ FSL when I finish my 5/3/1 sets for deadlifts. Video is linked below:
Are you still setting PR’s with your current programming? If so I say change nothing, because if your still setting PR’s your still getting stronger.
I suggest not taking your “+” sets to failure. Since your a younger lifter, your still going to be learning how far you can take your sets, and what it feels like when you only have a couple reps left in the tank. But in general going to failure probably isn’t the best idea as the likelihood of injury goes up, and if your injured you can’t train. You also don’t need to train to failure to get stronger. That being said, its fun every once in a while to do something less than intelligent, just don’t get carried away.
I say make smaller changes before bringing a whole other movement into the equation. Maybe first off, focus on refining your deadlift technique. I am no expert on the technical points of the deadlift, but in general it looks to me like your starting the “pull” portion of the lift too late. Try focusing on bringing your hips through sooner. When the bar reaches your knees focus on contracting your glutes. If your having issues with this try pointing your toes out slightly, or a bit more than you are. Play around with your stance a bit and see how it feels. Remember that your trying to get the bar from point A to point B in as straight a line as possible. Look up the 5 Pillars of the Deadlift on Youtube done by Juggernaut Training Systems.
Another small change you could make to your programming is instead of doing one set of 10 @ FSL, try doing 3-5 sets of 5 @ FSL. Since its a lighter more manageable weight,and you don’t have to worry about the form breakdown that may come with a high rep set, you should be able to more easily focus on your technique.
If your still feeling all that isn’t enough, try throwing 25-50 reps of back extensions after your deadlifts.
If your really set on block pulls/rack pulls read this: The Great Rack Pull Myth
Small changes can yield big results, just takes time and consistency. Trying making a tweak to your training before doing a full overhaul.
I’d do a bunch of GHR and work on making sure your glutes are firing when you warm up.
Most efficient solution depends on the cause of which there could be many e.g. muscle weakness, technical inefficiencies etc. In the 295x9 vid it was back rounding/shitty start position/not being patient off the floor probably caused by fatiguing muscles with AMRAP more than anything. Would be curious as to whether or not you also lose position when challenged in the lower rep ranges.
Properly implemented block pulls will at worst improve your deadlift by getting involved muscles bigger/stronger therefore improving the whole movement including lockout. It is more work at the end of the day after all. Same could be said for conventional deads or deficit deads tho.
That’s not a lock out problem but even if it was I reckon you’re just gassed rather than a strength issue. I will bet my left nut you wouldn’t fail there on a 1RM. And a block pull would help in that you don’t need to move the weight as far but I don’t think it would solve your issue.
Are you doing your conditioning work?
Thank you for your reply, this is very helpful. Other, much more experienced lifters also suggested that this was a technique issue. And also, this was the first time I’ve pulled touch-and-go in a few months, so I will see where I’m at next week (I’m also getting chalk today, so that will probably help my grip). Also, I genuinely thought I had that 10th rep in the bag, so I was surprised when I couldn’t get it past the tops of my knees. I looked at my speed off the floor on video, and it looked submaximal. I don’t know. I’m going to have to revise my technique some. Thanks again.
That is a great idea. Thank you very much. GHR’s are supposed to be very helpful.
This is also helpful. But, I don’t see where my back rounded. It looked straight from my angle. My upper back may have rounded a bit on the final reps, but I didn’t think I had shitty positioning overall. What would you improve? Serious question.
Okay, thank you for your advice. I haven’t pushed the Prowler in the last few weeks (stomach fluctuates in what it can handle, it sucks but I work with it), but I have been walking somewhere around 3 miles every day to and from school. I’m also generally carrying around 20 lb. on my back while doing this and also while racing up and down stairs to get to class on time. Does this count?
Direct side angle is usually the least flattering but sometimes we need that brutal honest feedback so I suggest you at least get one vid from that angle and the rest can be for Instagram.
I wouldn’t suggest changing much.
As far as I know you don’t have an issue with deadlift lockout because what was happening was, as strongmangoals was getting at, that either your back gets fatigued and gives out or your prime movers get fatigued and back rounds as a compensatory mechanism to improve leverage off the floor on AMRAPs. Solution is to accept that your back is often the thing to go on AMRAPs and to get stronger everywhere as you’ve been doing so far.
Vids of actual low rep sets or maxes might show an actual deadlift lock out issue.
Cause/Solution
Fatigue: Don’t go to technical failure, train within your means, accept and/or get stronger
Starting Position: Deadstop/full reset more or even every rep, pause deadlifts an inch off the floor, cue patience off the floor
A formcheck might be worthwhile if you can get your hands on multiple angles with decently heavy weights. This way we can really zero in on starting position, breathing/bracing etc. I have some suspicions/hypotheses that I could test out.
Knees locking out looks a bit funky to me also specifically the timing of it. Usually I see knees lock when the bar gets to that level give or take but yours stay bent as the bar passes and end up locking out fully right at the end. Maybe on a max attempt you’d get earthquake knees going or someshit.
Possibly. I have a direct side video of my 275 x 16 dead-stop PR in my log. Another experienced lifter suggested I pull touch-and-go to make sure I was actually getting stronger instead of just resting more between reps. I also have a 285 x 12 dead-stop video, but that’s from the side-front. I’ll post them here:
275 x 16 — - YouTube
285 x 12 —
Obviously the 285 x 12 was much faster, so I’ll go with that as being my all-time PR.
All things considered I think form isn’t horrible. Cudos on having the brass to put out the effort.
I personally like rack/block pulls some ppl don’t. Like everyone else said though I wouldn’t start changing your program up if your progressing. Maybe assess volume first, if you have a log check if you’ve possibly decreased volume after strength sets. You aren’t body building clearly but a certain amount of volume is required for strength. Thing is with you still hitting PRs you probably need to stay the course, also you hitting PRs 10+ means you are working with a low TM vs what your true max is. I’m not saying adjust TM I’m saying you got several more cycles in you before you need to consider changing anything. If your 5+ ends up being a 14 rep set…you have a lot of room to push forward.
You’re right. Thanks very much. I’m just gonna keep everything the same seeing as how 5/3/1 has been working for me, barring a possible switch to 5 x 5 @ FSL just to get some more deadlift volume in + focus on technique.
Yeah man try different templates and varying volume. Goes a long way and you don’t have to do anything fancy just add volume, and do varied programs in forever book
Smart ideas. I have 5/3/1 Forever, so after I run the original template for 4 more cycles I’ll switch to another template. 5/3/1 does help me work lifting around my life with room for less than stellar days, which is great for me seeing as how my recovery is almost always compromised.
Interesting point here about knees … my dead looks a bit like this as I don’t push hips through early enough and I def got earthquakes when I 1RM’d recently. Are there any cues or tips for when knees should lock out??
@khangles I second this. ^^
If I may ask, why did you do a 1RM? That’s not part of any 531 program, and it’s not useful and can be pretty counterproductive.
kbama…
This was week 10 of the Ed Coan Phillipi deadlift program, however please note: Beyond 5/3/1 -Training Maximally - Option 5 - ‘Going to a True Max’. You can lift your 1RM on this program and it is what I’m currently on.
My interest at the moment is in building a huge deadlift and so I have tested my 1RM 2 or 3 times in the last year. I do this because I enjoy it. Hope that clarifies.
Also, Testing Week of Jim’s 5/3/1 Strength Challenge program has you “work up to a new 1RM”, and 5/3/1 SVR Training says “If you feel good, attempt a new max” as well as Advanced 5/3/1 says you can “work up to a new 1RM”.