BJJ vs NFL Grappling Match

Off Topic
61

well scrappy, if you weren’t so busy trying to be the smartest man alive, you’d have realized that my first comment was mostly sarcastic. I never said that matt hughes didn’t use bjj, i was just sayin that gracie was suppossed to be the man in bjj and penn is a great bjj. That’s what they are known for. but neither looked all that impressive last year against hughes.

What’s so wrong with wanting to see what you have in a certain sport even if you have no experience. Everybody starts somewhere right? I’d like to start tryin the MMA and i am well aware that i will have my ass handed to me more than a few times, but that’s not gonna stop me from seein if I can do it.

62

[quote]keaster wrote:
Are you projecting onto others. Freud would be proud.[/quote]

I take it that you just finished an intro to psychonanalsis in your high school psychology course. Your teacher would be proude that you can handle such “deep” concepts of projection. (Oooh… I said “deep.” That must be a Freudian slip.)

63

[quote]bj666 wrote:
well scrappy, if you weren’t so busy trying to be the smartest man alive, you’d have realized that my first comment was mostly sarcastic. I never said that matt hughes didn’t use bjj, i was just sayin that gracie was suppossed to be the man in bjj and penn is a great bjj. That’s what they are known for. but neither looked all that impressive last year against hughes.

What’s so wrong with wanting to see what you have in a certain sport even if you have no experience. Everybody starts somewhere right? I’d like to start tryin the MMA and i am well aware that i will have my ass handed to me more than a few times, but that’s not gonna stop me from seein if I can do it.[/quote]

Did you even watch Penn/Hughes 2, turd-burglar? The only part where BJ’s BJJ didn’t look better than Hughes’ is when he came out for the third round after suffering a rib injury. When he was taking Hughes’ back and wrapping him in a reverse triangle, his BJJ looked pretty fucking good. You haven’t even trained shit yet, and you’re evaluating one of the best BJJ practitioners out there?

64

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
JD430 wrote:

I guess you haven’t tried it.

You guess wrong. But I guess you missed the other video of the NFL player vs. the bjj guy in pride where he was slamnmed on his head. Looked pretty easy to me. [/quote]

I have seen two men execute a piledriver in a professional mma match. Bob Sapp against Nogeira(Pride). That was impresssive. Still Bob had a nearly 70kg(154 pound) weight advantage, and Bob is freakishly strong even for a NFL player.

If you have a 150 pound weight advantage(assuming you are not fat) over your opponent, it doesn’t matter what your opponent does, you should be able to pick them up. The second was Ikuhisa Minowa against Paulo Filho a few years ago. Paulo is an extremely powerful bjj practitioner. Stiil Minowa had his back in the corner and his legs behind him and Filho’s head was moving forward at a downward angle, so Minowa had a mechanical advantage that enabled him to piledrive Filho. Filho did end up winning that match though.

65

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Scrappy wrote:
All guys think they can fight. Even though they don’t train fighting, they want to challenge people who do. I just wanna know why that is? Do you wanna test yourself agains other pro athletes in their sport? That’s all my question is.

I agree with the sentiment of your post. But you’re missing an important distinction: I don’t hear guys saying, “I could beat Matt Hughes.” I also do not hear guys saying, “Oh, you box, I could beat you up.” I hear guys saying, “Oh, you take karate/bjj/tha boxing/whatever, I could still beat you up.”

People do not have much respect for the average martial artist. I can’t blame them, actually. A little bit of formal training doesn’t do that much in a fight. It takes years before what you learn is useful.

Also, most guys think bjj is like karate where everyone gets a black belt if they just show up for a few years. They don’t realize that you don’t even get a little piece of tape on your belt for at least a year.

Be that as it may… I do agree with you that the average joe has an inflated view of his fighting skills. Then again, the average joe thinks he’s model-like handsome, a great lover, a master of investing, etc.

Think about it… What isn’t the average joe an expert at (in his own mind)? [/quote]

I agree with you. Though this problem seems more prevalent in America than other countries. Martial arts aren’t respected. I do not really blame most people though for feeling that way. Because of how basterdized martial arts is in America.

Those Mcdojos and deathtouch guys and all that stupidity. I have never run across something similar in Japan. Karate is a sport. Judo is a sport. BJJ is a sport. Full-contact karate is the norm in Japan.

There are variations of course, Kyokushin style with low kicks and knees but no face punches(bareknuckle), Daido Juku with small gloves, headgear and throws/clinching/submissions, “glove” karate which is similar to K-1, and pure bareknuckle karate, no protective gear and face punching. It is a respected sport. Though this from of karate has been around for only maybe 50 years. Still it is what is normal these days.

Why karate became that mystical non-contact, non-violent non-sport in America I do not know.
Judo is respected as well. BJJ also. These are sports, no less a sport than boxing or baseball is. It is expectd that they are better at doing what their sport requires than the average person.

I also agree that a beginner judoka or bjjer(boxer or whatever) really doesn’t have any more of a chance to win a fight than a regular person. Even the technically proficient guy hasn’t increased his chances that much. At that level size and/or strength would be better to have. Though the better one gets and if you are talented then things start to lean towards the trained guy. Good amateur level or pro level.

At that point would put my money on the boxer or judoka or mmaer against the average guy. To me that is just obvious. To think otherwise is just the average untrained man being delusional. Same goes for any sport. Average man isn’t going to be better at hitting a baseball than a top amateur or pro baseball player, especially if he never has played baseball.

66

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
even especially good. Second, what kind of “man” runs his mouth and then pulls out a gun?

You’re no better than a typical gangbanger.

Pathetic.[/quote]

Please quote a single threat I have made.

Sad thing is, grasshopper, you are the pathetic one. Telling me how to speak to you if I want to keep my pretty face intact.

you were a dick when you joined, and you have made little progression since then. The only thing that has increased has been your post count.

DO you scream, “HY YAH!!!” in class? Are the other 12 yr olds giving you your due respect for being so fucking tough?

I so enjoy reading your “I am the shit, motherfucker” posts. Were there only a little truth to them.

67

[quote]slimjim wrote:
bj666 wrote:
well scrappy, if you weren’t so busy trying to be the smartest man alive, you’d have realized that my first comment was mostly sarcastic. I never said that matt hughes didn’t use bjj, i was just sayin that gracie was suppossed to be the man in bjj and penn is a great bjj. That’s what they are known for. but neither looked all that impressive last year against hughes.

What’s so wrong with wanting to see what you have in a certain sport even if you have no experience. Everybody starts somewhere right? I’d like to start tryin the MMA and i am well aware that i will have my ass handed to me more than a few times, but that’s not gonna stop me from seein if I can do it.

Did you even watch Penn/Hughes 2, turd-burglar? The only part where BJ’s BJJ didn’t look better than Hughes’ is when he came out for the third round after suffering a rib injury. When he was taking Hughes’ back and wrapping him in a reverse triangle, his BJJ looked pretty fucking good. You haven’t even trained shit yet, and you’re evaluating one of the best BJJ practitioners out there? [/quote]

I didn’t even want to get into specifics of the fights but thanks slim…Hughes really got some kind of luck in the 2nd bj fight. He wasn’t doing that well until BJ got hurt.

As for Royce being the man in BJJ, he is not even close. All due respect to him there are many better BJJ guys. See, you aren’t really into the sport, and you’re saying things that show that. You watch Spike and believe the hype and what you hear the announcers say.

Anyway, where I train we get beginners every week. There are cool ones, but many think they’re ‘tough’. Nothing wrong with starting out in a sport or even wanting to see what you got in it. The problem is when they come in and clearly think they can kick ass. Some act like strong/silent type some actually talk shit or when you teach them they start saying how they’d counter it or whatever.

These guys may be big, strong, lean, fast and/or look in shape. They are usually the ones who puke during the warm up and spaz on some other beginner during sparring but go no where after their first burst doesn’t work.

So if you wanna do mma go do it. Just don’t tell the guys who’ve been doing it for years what they’re doing wrong. lol…It sounds like you won’t. But that is my whole point. Many guys do just that. And a lot of beginners are cool and really want to learn. But I would say most guys think they can fight, like Joe Frazier said, ‘Because’. And that holds back their learning and is just annoying.

But Royce Gracie is not the man in BJJ. Check out Roger Gracie, Jacare and Marcelo Garcia for that. Nogueira and Werdum are great bjj for mma guys. Royce barely trained for Hughes and it showed. And even if he did, Hughes would likely beat him every time. Nowadays Royce would lose to a lot of the good guys in straight BJJ competition.

68

I’m about fed up with all the BJJer’s out there talking about how great they are.

Is there a UFC champion that is an expert in BJJ?

When faced with an equally well prepared striker or grappler - The BJJers usually come up short.

If you can defend the shoot, and have a decent left hook - odds are you will leave the BJJ crowd making excuses.

You guys that want to train BJJ - knock yourselves out. Just don’t waste bandwidth being BJJ missionaries.

And maybe quit using NFL players to try and make some sort of point.

69

Ray Benemerito, a world champion powerlifter did some bjj training and found his strength to be very helpful. a few times when guys tried some holds, he just basically body slammed them. It was pretty funny.

If you’re fighting anything goes. For a match, well, that’s a sport with rules. So if it’s actual fighting, anything goes. that’s when the size might make a huge difference, even if the guy is less experienced.

70

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I’m about fed up with all the BJJer’s out there talking about how great they are.

Is there a UFC champion that is an expert in BJJ?

When faced with an equally well prepared striker or grappler - The BJJers usually come up short.

If you can defend the shoot, and have a decent left hook - odds are you will leave the BJJ crowd making excuses.

You guys that want to train BJJ - knock yourselves out. Just don’t waste bandwidth being BJJ missionaries.

And maybe quit using NFL players to try and make some sort of point. [/quote]

Sean Sherk, GSP, Anderson Silva. All train BJJ. In fact GSP trains where I do.

71

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I’m about fed up with all the BJJer’s out there talking about how great they are.[/quote]

Don’t let the door hit your ass…

[quote]
Is there a UFC champion that is an expert in BJJ? [/quote]

Over the years… of course. Currently Anderson Silva is. Hell, even Wanderlei (PRIDE) is a bjj black belt.[quote]

When faced with an equally well prepared striker or grappler - The BJJers usually come up short. [/quote]

Please state examples. Most guys in the UFC are at least purple belts. Anderson Silva (yeah the “stand-up guy”) is a bjj black belt.

[quote]
If you can defend the shoot, and have a decent left hook - odds are you will leave the BJJ crowd making excuses.[/quote]

I know, it’s extremely easy to do. Again, please site some references of fighters who don’t train bjj that do this (oh, and btw: Chuck liddell trained in bjj).

[quote]

You guys that want to train BJJ - knock yourselves out. Just don’t waste bandwidth being BJJ missionaries.[/quote]

What should we talk about? Steroids?

[quote]
And maybe quit using NFL players to try and make some sort of point. [/quote]

It’s called expanding fan base. Sometimes people need to reference point before they open their minds to anything new.

72

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Ray Benemerito, a world champion powerlifter did some bjj training and found his strength to be very helpful. a few times when guys tried some holds, he just basically body slammed them.[/quote]

So I guess that after he beat all the head instructors he was awarded a black belt?

Which gym did he own everyone at?

You were there?[quote]

If you’re fighting anything goes. For a match, well, that’s a sport with rules. So if it’s actual fighting, anything goes. that’s when the size might make a huge difference, even if the guy is less experienced. [/quote]

Ah, you do realize that the UFC started as an organization without rules and weight classes, right? Do me a favor and tell me what happened in those early events?

73

[quote]Scrappy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I’m about fed up with all the BJJer’s out there talking about how great they are.

Is there a UFC champion that is an expert in BJJ?

When faced with an equally well prepared striker or grappler - The BJJers usually come up short.

If you can defend the shoot, and have a decent left hook - odds are you will leave the BJJ crowd making excuses.

You guys that want to train BJJ - knock yourselves out. Just don’t waste bandwidth being BJJ missionaries.

And maybe quit using NFL players to try and make some sort of point.

Sean Sherk, GSP, Anderson Silva. All train BJJ. In fact GSP trains where I do.
[/quote]

Not specifically. The argument here is the ultimate superiority of the glorious BJJ over all other disciplines.

I say BJJ is just another one of many. The fan-boys think all you need is to know how to shoot and choke.

And of course to find under trained ex-NFL players to whoop up on.

74

[quote]XxMAGxX wrote:
Please state examples. Most guys in the UFC are at least purple belts. Anderson Silva (yeah the “stand-up guy”) is a bjj black belt.[/quote]

Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes, Rampage, Cro Cop.

Good for Silva.

I’m not saying that BJJ is bad. I just think that, around here, it is an excuse for skinny-fat little twinks to wear pajamas to a public area, and talk about how tough they are - or could be.

[quote]If you can defend the shoot, and have a decent left hook - odds are you will leave the BJJ crowd making excuses.

I know, it’s extremely easy to do. Again, please site some references of fighters who don’t train bjj that do this (oh, and btw: Chuck liddell trained in bjj).[/quote]

Liddell also is just a tough motherfucker. Just because someone trains it does not mean that they are BJJ guys.

I never said it was easy, but it can be done, and is done on a fairly regular basis. Cro Cop, Rampager, Hughes, just to name some of the top guys.

[quote]You guys that want to train BJJ - knock yourselves out. Just don’t waste bandwidth being BJJ missionaries.

What should we talk about? Steroids?[/quote]

Newsflash, sparky - this is a bodybuilding site. Do you even lift weights? You might want to start there - but whatever.

[quote]And maybe quit using NFL players to try and make some sort of point.

It’s called expanding fan base. Sometimes people need to reference point before they open their minds to anything new.[/quote]

I have bought and paid for every UFC fight for the last 3 years. I don’t need to see BJJ guy kicking the shit out of an untrained ex-NFL pro to get excited.

If that’s what your discipline needs to expand it’s fan base - maybe you should hire a new marketing guy.

I’m curious - why is it NFL guys? Why not go up against a pro boxer?

75

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Scrappy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I’m about fed up with all the BJJer’s out there talking about how great they are.

Is there a UFC champion that is an expert in BJJ?

When faced with an equally well prepared striker or grappler - The BJJers usually come up short.

If you can defend the shoot, and have a decent left hook - odds are you will leave the BJJ crowd making excuses.

You guys that want to train BJJ - knock yourselves out. Just don’t waste bandwidth being BJJ missionaries.

And maybe quit using NFL players to try and make some sort of point.

Sean Sherk, GSP, Anderson Silva. All train BJJ. In fact GSP trains where I do.

Not specifically. The argument here is the ultimate superiority of the glorious BJJ over all other disciplines.

I say BJJ is just another one of many. The fan-boys think all you need is to know how to shoot and choke.

And of course to find under trained ex-NFL players to whoop up on. [/quote]

Um, That is not my argument. Not at the Pro MMA level. I would say that if regular but comperable guys take a lot of different martial arts and then they have to fight a decent athlete, not a pro but a guy who would otherwise kick their ass. Then the guys who do a lot of karate will probably lose and the guys who do bjj will probably win.

Knowing some bjj doesn’t make you better than an olympic wrestler or boxer. Being a black belt in BJJ doesn’t mean you’re going to beat a D1 wrestler who is also a purple belt or above in bjj.

I mean, no one is saying that. What I’m saying, is if you don’t train to fight…then maybe you shouldn’t say how easy it is to beat anyone who knows bjj. I mean, is a white or even blue belt even a good rep for BJJ at that level? No. I would say brown and black belts would be better reps of bjj. Then if some powerlifter or some guy who thinks he has a good left hook or a sprawl wants to spar. Have at it.

Bottom line. There are bjj schools popping up everywhere. Find a good one with a good amount of black/brown belts, Go in and tell them you wanna test yourself. Video it for youtube and post a link. Otherwise…what are you talking about?

76

[quote]rainjack wrote:

Not specifically. The argument here is the ultimate superiority of the glorious BJJ over all other disciplines. [/quote]

Where has anyone on this thread claimed that bjj was the be all end all?

Seriously, quote the post please.

The only thing that I’m defending at this point is the notion that some red-neck with a good left hook will take out a professional fighter.

Notice I said “professional fighter” and not 140lbs bjj white belt. I know the urge is strong on this thread to twist other people’s words so I figure that I’d clear that up right away.

Again ,fighting is the only sport where people think they could walk in “go crazy” and do relatively well. No one thinks that about golf, tennis etc… What makes it even odder is that most people have probably played more golf and tennis than they have been fighting (which is completely normal) and yet they think they would be able to “hang”.

Again, we’re not talking about what you or someone you know did at the “Karate and Spa village”, Maybe you did pummel the fat sensei. I’d believe it. But things would not go so smoothly in a pro gym.

And to clarify things, I’m not a fighter, I don’t consider myself one, I never will… so if you or anyone else reads my post and thinks that I’m trying to say that I’m a bad ass and that I would pummel a pro-boxer or NFLer - then you are dead wrong.

Please re-read that paragraph before moving on.

I have trained at hardcore gyms and seen plenty of people come to test themselves saying, “Bro, if he thinks he’s going to pull that shit on me than he’s got another thing coming. I’m going to go crazy on his ass.” And by the end of the class, they all get shut up. Some are more stubborn, and it takes a week.

What rubs me the wrong way is people who have never trained in that environment say what they “would have done” or “have done”. Perfect, you pummeled a pro-fighter? What’s his name? If it’s the skinny TKD instructor at the YMCA then I don’t want to hear it because you can’t tell the difference between someone who trains at Bally’s and someone who trains at Westside Barbell Club.

77

[quote]rainjack wrote:

Not specifically. The argument here is the ultimate superiority of the glorious BJJ over all other disciplines. [/quote]

Where has anyone on this thread claimed that bjj was the be all end all?

Seriously, quote the post please.

The only thing that I’m defending at this point is the notion that some red-neck with a good left hook will take out a professional fighter.

Notice I said “professional fighter” and not 140lbs bjj white belt. I know the urge is strong on this thread to twist other people’s words so I figure that I’d clear that up right away.

Again ,fighting is the only sport where people think they could walk in “go crazy” and do relatively well. No one thinks that about golf, tennis etc… What makes it even odder is that most people have probably played more golf and tennis than they have been fighting (which is completely normal) and yet they think they would be able to “hang”.

Again, we’re not talking about what you or someone you know did at the “Karate and Spa village”, Maybe you did pummel the fat sensei. I’d believe it. But things would not go so smoothly in a pro gym.

And to clarify things, I’m not a fighter, I don’t consider myself one, I never will… so if you or anyone else reads my post and thinks that I’m trying to say that I’m a bad ass and that I would pummel a pro-boxer or NFLer - then you are dead wrong.

Please re-read that paragraph before moving on.

I have trained at hardcore gyms and seen plenty of people come to test themselves saying, “Bro, if he thinks he’s going to pull that shit on me than he’s got another thing coming. I’m going to go crazy on his ass.” And by the end of the class, they all get shut up. Some are more stubborn, and it takes a week.

What rubs me the wrong way is people who have never trained in that environment say what they “would have done” or “have done”. Perfect, you pummeled a pro-fighter? What’s his name? If it’s the skinny TKD instructor at the YMCA then I don’t want to hear it because you can’t tell the difference between someone who trains at Bally’s and someone who trains at Westside Barbell Club.

78

[quote]rainjack wrote:
XxMAGxX wrote:
Please state examples. Most guys in the UFC are at least purple belts. Anderson Silva (yeah the “stand-up guy”) is a bjj black belt.

Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes, Rampage, Cro Cop.

Good for Silva.

I’m not saying that BJJ is bad. I just think that, around here, it is an excuse for skinny-fat little twinks to wear pajamas to a public area, and talk about how tough they are - or could be.

If you can defend the shoot, and have a decent left hook - odds are you will leave the BJJ crowd making excuses.

I know, it’s extremely easy to do. Again, please site some references of fighters who don’t train bjj that do this (oh, and btw: Chuck liddell trained in bjj).

Liddell also is just a tough motherfucker. Just because someone trains it does not mean that they are BJJ guys.

I never said it was easy, but it can be done, and is done on a fairly regular basis. Cro Cop, Rampager, Hughes, just to name some of the top guys.

You guys that want to train BJJ - knock yourselves out. Just don’t waste bandwidth being BJJ missionaries.

What should we talk about? Steroids?

Newsflash, sparky - this is a bodybuilding site. Do you even lift weights? You might want to start there - but whatever.

And maybe quit using NFL players to try and make some sort of point.

It’s called expanding fan base. Sometimes people need to reference point before they open their minds to anything new.

I have bought and paid for every UFC fight for the last 3 years. I don’t need to see BJJ guy kicking the shit out of an untrained ex-NFL pro to get excited.

If that’s what your discipline needs to expand it’s fan base - maybe you should hire a new marketing guy.

I’m curious - why is it NFL guys? Why not go up against a pro boxer?
[/quote]

The question is. Why has no pro boxer been in against mma. oh wait, a few were. Botha, Butterbean…I think maybe more… I forget cause it’s actually something I’m not even interested in seeing. If they are just pro boxers they will lose to most of the mma guys who are mostly bjj. Nogueira and others.

Cro cop getting his brown belt in bjj from Verdum. Cro cop must think the style sucks he just wants the belt right? Didn’t noguria arm lock him??

Is cro cop not a pro kick boxer and also one with a lot of bjj experience? And did a mostly bjj guy beat him? Yes. It goes both ways. Strikers like liddell are great. But he is a D1 wrestler and a heavy hitter. Originally I was just talking about the vid of a decent bjj’er vs. a decent football player. Neither is a star.

And then I said I bet it happened cause the baller thought he was tough. Even if he won I would be saying the same thing. Why do people who don’t train shit in fighting bjj/wrestling/boxing/thai…want to fight people who do? I can understand wanting to learn. Unless you really are a bad dude and going to go for the pro mma ranks, what is the point with fighting someone who trains to fight?

I mean what is the doubt about bjj and why is it so strong? People don’t doubt boxing or wreslting so much…Yet before everyone learned BJJ boxing and wresling represenatives were losing over and over.

It’s pointless to argue with you guys. BJJ, No-gi, and MMA competitions are out there. Go get 'em boys.

79

You know as much as I think the footballer was probably acting tough and testing bjj as a doubter, at least he tested it!
I mean damn. If you wanna test it go test it. If you wanna talk then you’re a talker.

80

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Are people supposed to cower in fear of the mighty CL’s posting strength?

LMMFNBJJAO!!!

Internet tough guys…gotta wonder, WTF?

LOL. Well, one, “flames” don’t bother me in the least. They do bother others, so there’s something to not caring about online “attacks.” Two, I have no doubts as to what would happen if you ran your mouth off like that to me in person. Keep typing, though, if it makes you feel tough.[/quote]

INTERNET FIGHT!!!