[quote]JD430 wrote:
I guess you haven’t tried it.
[/quote]
You guess wrong. But I guess you missed the other video of the NFL player vs. the bjj guy in pride where he was slamnmed on his head. Looked pretty easy to me.
[quote]bj666 wrote:
By far the most impressive bjj videos are when matt hughes beat the hell out of royce gracie and bj penn. haha[/quote]
Um, they all train bjj. Somebodies gotta lose. I mean if two guys know the same stuff attributes like strength, speed, endurance are going to come into play. No one is saying that they don’t. Hughes ran over Gil Castillo and many people. He is proof of the obvious. Wrestling + BJJ + Super athlete = dangerous.
And I wouldn’t talk too much about his Penn win without mentinoing his BJ Penn Loss which was a complete run over.
[quote]texasguy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I’m pretty sure that BJJ is defenseless against a base ball bat.
Now I have no empirical data to support this, but in the real world - BJJ will lose to a baseball bat almost every time.
I’m just saying - if your gonna really fight, fight to win or just keep your ass on the bar stool.
not necessarily true. a bjjer would more likely to be able to take the bat from his assailant and use it against him than an average guy or foot ball player. [/quote]
What??? Are you kidding?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Are people supposed to cower in fear of the mighty CL’s posting strength?
LMMFNBJJAO!!!
Internet tough guys…gotta wonder, WTF?[/quote]
LOL. Well, one, “flames” don’t bother me in the least. They do bother others, so there’s something to not caring about online “attacks.” Two, I have no doubts as to what would happen if you ran your mouth off like that to me in person. Keep typing, though, if it makes you feel tough.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
texasguy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I’m pretty sure that BJJ is defenseless against a base ball bat.
Now I have no empirical data to support this, but in the real world - BJJ will lose to a baseball bat almost every time.
I’m just saying - if your gonna really fight, fight to win or just keep your ass on the bar stool.
not necessarily true. a bjjer would more likely to be able to take the bat from his assailant and use it against him than an average guy or foot ball player.
What??? Are you kidding?
[/quote]
No man, he is serious. Those guys have serious speed and skills.
I saw Royce Gracie run around the world so fast he punched himself in the back of the head, knocking himself out.
Truely amazing.
I watched about 3 hours of old UFC off of Spike this week and noticed that overall the fighters look a lot less bulky these days. Now this probably due to the fact that they were so strong, they were killing each other too rapidly. 
Anyway Gracie did seem to be able to handle all comers that were: larger, stronger, strikers, bull rushers, etc. Don’t forget he head butted, did nad shots & such, like a street fight.
I think JJ would still win the majority of the time if there were no cross-trained fighters.
Igot it! I got the ultimate lineup!
Bruce Lee vs. Royce Gracie in UFC 1.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Igot it! I got the ultimate lineup!
Bruce Lee vs. Royce Gracie in UFC 1. [/quote]
How about adding:
Venus de Milo vs Monty Python knight?
extreme head butting exibition!
There is so much crap in this thread I don’t know where to start. I’ll try to cover a couple points. First, being an NFL football player is not a fighting discipline. Why is it even mentioned that he is a football player? Because they’re out to prove something, but using BS to do so. All he’s proving here is that he can use skills he has learned and practiced all of his life to beat someone who does not train and practice those same skills. So what. So if they went out on the football field and the guy took Gil’s head off, what would that prove? Again, nothing.
Second, size and strength are factors in fighting and always will be. They are not the only factors of course. Every time a little guy wants to prove something, he fights a bigger guy who is not at his skill level and says “see BJJ (or whatever) overcomes size.” Of course, what happens when the big guy has the same skill level?
Obviously, there are many factors to fighting. A short list of these might be : technique, speed, strength, toughness, quickness, size, endurance, mental capacity, fearlessness, and many other obvious or subtle attributes. The point is, with all other factors being equal, the bigger guy would win, or the faster guy would win, or the best technique would win, or the best cardio would win, or the tougher will win, or the strongest will win.
This crap about Royce Gracie proving something back in the day about a small guy beating a big guy - bullshit. He was simply beating guys that didn’t know and train in the skills he possessed. He can’t even beat guys his own size, now that others train those techniques.
The bigger guy is not always going to win, but it is a factor. Why do they have weight classes? Because if everyone trained in all the disciplines, as they do now, the bigger guy will win 9 out of ten times. Just watch Pride, where guys are not afraid to fight up a weight class or two. Of course the bigger usually still wins.
To say that size doesn’t matter in a fight would be like saying that technique doesn’t matter, or speed, or toughness, etc. They all matter.
[quote]Taquito wrote:
I don’t get it…
Are they just going for a choke submission?
I can’t see why the football player couln’t have grabbed a front headlock from the sprawl. Then again I know nothing of BJJ so meh.[/quote]
yeah i know what you mean it seem to me the nfl player had plenty of chances but he simply didn’t execute for some reason…added the fact he seemed to be moving very slow
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
LOL. Well, one, “flames” don’t bother me in the least. They do bother others, so there’s something to not caring about online “attacks.” Two, I have no doubts as to what would happen if you ran your mouth off like that to me in person. Keep typing, though, if it makes you feel tough.[/quote]
Dude - with all due respect, you are the so full of shit it’s not even funny.
Now you are the benevolent protector of all that wear pajamas to fight class?
Tough? I’m not the one the guy strutting around offering protection and making threats.
I just have 3 words if you really think I give a shit about your purple belt, and all the fury you can rain down on me and my comments:
CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT.
Now don’t you have some boards to break with your elbow, or some shit?
scrappy did you notice that when penn beat hughes it was 3 years ago. Also that was his 4th title defense in a year, so chances are he was pretty rundown. He had beaten Gil Castillo, Sean Sherk, and Frank Trigg that year. Hughes is a much better fighter now that he is well rounded.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
texasguy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I’m pretty sure that BJJ is defenseless against a base ball bat.
Now I have no empirical data to support this, but in the real world - BJJ will lose to a baseball bat almost every time.
I’m just saying - if your gonna really fight, fight to win or just keep your ass on the bar stool.
not necessarily true. a bjjer would more likely to be able to take the bat from his assailant and use it against him than an average guy or foot ball player.
What??? Are you kidding?
No man, he is serious. Those guys have serious speed and skills.
I saw Royce Gracie run around the world so fast he punched himself in the back of the head, knocking himself out.
Truely amazing.
[/quote]
Pete - you’re talking about world class elite athletes.
How many of these professionals are going to get in a bar brawl?
[quote]bj666 wrote:
scrappy did you notice that when penn beat hughes it was 3 years ago. Also that was his 4th title defense in a year, so chances are he was pretty rundown. He had beaten Gil Castillo, Sean Sherk, and Frank Trigg that year. Hughes is a much better fighter now that he is well rounded. [/quote]
Dude, I think you missed the point.
But anyway, I actually think BJ was worse in the 2nd fight more than hughes got better. And those other fights that year didn’t mean much in running Hughes down as you suggest. Hughes beat GSP once with BJJ. Didn’t win with it the 2nd time. At that level everyone is gonna lose sometime. Saying bjj, as a system, got beat cause Hughes beat Royce or BJ is idiotic.
I’m not saying Royce or BJ are the best fighters, and neither is Hughes. And Hughes clearly uses BJJ in his fights and trains it. I’m certain of that.
The pro mma fighters all use and train some form of bjj/boxing/wrestling. Hughes is great. But we aren’t really talking about Hughes vs. Royce vs. BJ. Nor do those fights show how one style is superior to another. Rather they show the better fighter on that night.
We were talking about BJJ vs. a Footballer and how people get all pissed when they see something like that and start to talk all kinds of smack when they never grappled a day in their lives. It’s like me commenting on baseball or something I don’t know about. But my original point was that all guys think they’re tough. All guys think they can fight. Even though they don’t train fighting, they want to challenge people who do. I just wanna know why that is? Do you wanna test yourself agains other pro athletes in their sport? That’s all my question is.
It’s rare that a pro mma fight today is a total style contrast match.
[quote]bj666 wrote:
By far the most impressive bjj videos are when matt hughes beat the hell out of royce gracie and bj penn. haha[/quote]
You do realize that Pat Miletich is a bjj black belt, right?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Dude - with all due respect, you are the so full of shit it’s not even funny.
Now you are the benevolent protector of all that wear pajamas to fight class?
Tough? I’m not the one the guy strutting around offering protection and making threats.
I just have 3 words if you really think I give a shit about your purple belt, and all the fury you can rain down on me and my comments:
CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT.
Now don’t you have some boards to break with your elbow, or some shit?[/quote]
First, I’m a white belt - not even especially good. Second, what kind of “man” runs his mouth and then pulls out a gun?
You’re no better than a typical gangbanger.
Pathetic.
[quote]Scrappy wrote:
All guys think they can fight. Even though they don’t train fighting, they want to challenge people who do. I just wanna know why that is? Do you wanna test yourself agains other pro athletes in their sport? That’s all my question is.[/quote]
I agree with the sentiment of your post. But you’re missing an important distinction: I don’t hear guys saying, “I could beat Matt Hughes.” I also do not hear guys saying, “Oh, you box, I could beat you up.” I hear guys saying, “Oh, you take karate/bjj/tha boxing/whatever, I could still beat you up.”
People do not have much respect for the average martial artist. I can’t blame them, actually. A little bit of formal training doesn’t do that much in a fight. It takes years before what you learn is useful.
Also, most guys think bjj is like karate where everyone gets a black belt if they just show up for a few years. They don’t realize that you don’t even get a little piece of tape on your belt for at least a year.
Be that as it may… I do agree with you that the average joe has an inflated view of his fighting skills. Then again, the average joe thinks he’s model-like handsome, a great lover, a master of investing, etc.
Think about it… What isn’t the average joe an expert at (in his own mind)?
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Scrappy wrote:
All guys think they can fight. Even though they don’t train fighting, they want to challenge people who do. I just wanna know why that is? Do you wanna test yourself agains other pro athletes in their sport? That’s all my question is.
I agree with the sentiment of your post. But you’re missing an important distinction: I don’t hear guys saying, “I could beat Matt Hughes.” I also do not hear guys saying, “Oh, you box, I could beat you up.” I hear guys saying, “Oh, you take karate/bjj/tha boxing/whatever, I could still beat you up.”
People do not have much respect for the average martial artist. I can’t blame them, actually. A little bit of formal training doesn’t do that much in a fight. It takes years before what you learn is useful.
Also, most guys think bjj is like karate where everyone gets a black belt if they just show up for a few years. They don’t realize that you don’t even get a little piece of tape on your belt for at least a year.
Be that as it may… I do agree with you that the average joe has an inflated view of his fighting skills. Then again, the average joe thinks he’s model-like handsome, a great lover, a master of investing, etc.
Think about it… What isn’t the average joe an expert at (in his own mind)? [/quote]
I wholeheartedly agree with this post.
There are a lot of similarities between the martial art community and the lifting community.
The lifting community is largely comprised of people with Bally’s membership who lift a bit of weight and do a bit of cardio three times per week.
They aren’t impressive to look at and they aren’t strong, but technically they are lifters.
Of course serious bodybuilders, powerlifters, oly and strongmen don’t want to be associated with them.
Same with the martial art community. The large majority are out of shape people drudging their way through techniques and have zero conditioning, power or resilience.
But this is where people have to make the distinction. There is a huge difference between someone who trains at Bally’s and someone who trains at Westside Barbell Club. Similarly there’s a huge difference between someone who does Karate at the mall and someone who trains at Chute Box.
And similarly, there are probably as many hardcore martial art gyms as there are powerlifting gyms in America compared to shit flaky gyms.
The problem is that most people can’t tell the difference, so they lump it all in the same category.
I mean, non-lifters can’t tell the difference between a powerlifter a bodybuilder or a strongman. How can we expect non-martial artists to tell the difference between guys “dressed in pajamas”?
Anyways, those who know - know!
And those who don’t - well they think bjjers break boards with their elbows and powerlifters perform snatches…
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Scrappy wrote:
All guys think they can fight. Even though they don’t train fighting, they want to challenge people who do. I just wanna know why that is? Do you wanna test yourself agains other pro athletes in their sport? That’s all my question is.
I agree with the sentiment of your post. But you’re missing an important distinction: I don’t hear guys saying, “I could beat Matt Hughes.” I also do not hear guys saying, “Oh, you box, I could beat you up.” I hear guys saying, “Oh, you take karate/bjj/tha boxing/whatever, I could still beat you up.”
People do not have much respect for the average martial artist. I can’t blame them, actually. A little bit of formal training doesn’t do that much in a fight. It takes years before what you learn is useful.
Also, most guys think bjj is like karate where everyone gets a black belt if they just show up for a few years. They don’t realize that you don’t even get a little piece of tape on your belt for at least a year.
Be that as it may… I do agree with you that the average joe has an inflated view of his fighting skills. Then again, the average joe thinks he’s model-like handsome, a great lover, a master of investing, etc.
Think about it… What isn’t the average joe an expert at (in his own mind)? [/quote]
There is a quote, I think from Joe Frazier, but maybe not, about how every guy in the world thinks he can box, just because.
Fighting is the only thing like that, though, becaue men are expected to be able to. Kind of like being able to throw a football or play pool…you don’t have to be awesome, you just gotta be able to hold your own.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Be that as it may… I do agree with you that the average joe has an inflated view of his fighting skills. Then again, the average joe thinks he’s model-like handsome, a great lover, a master of investing, etc.
Think about it… What isn’t the average joe an expert at (in his own mind)? [/quote]
Are you projecting onto others. Freud would be proud.