Is anyone using the Bioforce HRV system while training 5/3/1 ?
This is a very good question which I’d also like to hear an answer to.
The Bioforce HRV and similar systems (Ithlete is alot cheaper for example and also good I believe) sound like very useful kit for hard-working athletes.
I have been using it for about 2.5 months.
I really like it…mostly it tells you what you’re already aware of…but sometimes this isn’t a bad thing. For example…I work 24 hours straight sometimes (and obviously no to minimal sleep). I usually WANT to train hard the next day…especially since I didn’t train on the 24 hour workday. Typically I’m kinda tired or absolutely wiped out…but my mind says “just tough it out”. Since I have been using HRV, I have a measurement (something more objective) that suggests I rest or at least active recover. It just would be a waste (and potential increase the risk of injury) to go super intense when I’m not in the physiological state to really perform and/or recover.
Interestingly though, I have seen 5/3/1 be “easier” in general to recover from
then typical “bodybuilding” workouts and crossfit-style conditioning sessions (and that seems to be backed up by HRV testing). Also, the HRV does NOT correlate with soreness or DOMS. There have been plenty of days (especially on BBB assistance blocks) where I have woken up feeling like I was hit by a train, expecting my “readiness” to be through the floor… And have tested in the green with a “readiness” of 10/10. Conversely after longer conditioning sessions, I have tested lower than expected. I have also noticed that the “readiness” level correlates with overall “strong feeling” and days where I have set PR reps on my last set .
The HRV is a good tool…again it’s not like it’s a total shock with new info about when you’re ready to train…but it does prove to you what you already know…long conditioning will wipe you out and lower volume strength work is efficient…and the continual gains on 5/3/1 are proof that “lower volume” work and slow steady progression is where it’s at.
I like the Bioforce HRV for the same reason I LOVE 5/3/1…it’s logical, it’s common sense, scientific, and it works! Do you HAVE TO HAVE the bioforce HRV? No…like Jim says-- listen to your body. But it is a neat tool…and it does show you…PROVES to you what Jim also says—a light warm up (exercise bike at low intensity/heart rate) helps you recover and prepares you to train at a maximal level.
And just since this is my first post in the Wendler 5/3/1 forum…I feel like I should say thank you to him for the amazing books/program. How much time have I wasted training other ways and wishing I was progressing? This program is so flexible…and so many variations…and he places the focus on the LONG TERM (where it should be) instead of the countless programs (wastes of time) that promise massive change in a 6 week period. As an almost 39 year old father, professional, and life long strength and conditioning addict…I know that I will be using one of his 5/3/1 “mods” for the rest of
My life. Doing anything else and expecting progress is self delusional. I am finished
With “impulse buying” the program of the week. 5/3/1 is the answer to perpetual progress. Not special supplements, or magic techniques.
Jim…nice work. You’re the fucking man.
Hi DogBiteCat
Thank you very much for your reply, I am waiting for the HRV to arrive, and also very pleased with the 5/3/1 program.
Atm doing the 28 week program, but I feel I drag if I not de-load after each 3 week training phase, so it will be fun to see if the HRV says the same.
But its not strange if it does, I am 47 and am about to start my own firm, so pretty logic if I have to deload more often.
Totally understand about life’s stress levels…
Jim actually talks about that a lot in his books and in the Q&A in the powerlifting book mentions strategies he uses to get some work in when feeling shitty. In my experience, when
I am super sore and/or my HRV “readiness” is low, I’ll do a light warmup (bike, rower, jump rope) and then at LEAST get through my 5/3/1 lifts. Usually I will hold off on the assistance work for the day…at least I did the important stuff for the day.
If you train the 5/3/1 hard and try to make Pr, but skip the assistance + condition, is it enough to get your “readiness” high again, or do you cap. the reps ?
[quote]DogBiteCat wrote:
I have been using it for about 2.5 months.
I really like it…mostly it tells you what you’re already aware of…but sometimes this isn’t a bad thing. For example…I work 24 hours straight sometimes (and obviously no to minimal sleep). I usually WANT to train hard the next day…especially since I didn’t train on the 24 hour workday. Typically I’m kinda tired or absolutely wiped out…but my mind says “just tough it out”. Since I have been using HRV, I have a measurement (something more objective) that suggests I rest or at least active recover. It just would be a waste (and potential increase the risk of injury) to go super intense when I’m not in the physiological state to really perform and/or recover.
Interestingly though, I have seen 5/3/1 be “easier” in general to recover from
then typical “bodybuilding” workouts and crossfit-style conditioning sessions (and that seems to be backed up by HRV testing). Also, the HRV does NOT correlate with soreness or DOMS. There have been plenty of days (especially on BBB assistance blocks) where I have woken up feeling like I was hit by a train, expecting my “readiness” to be through the floor… And have tested in the green with a “readiness” of 10/10. Conversely after longer conditioning sessions, I have tested lower than expected. I have also noticed that the “readiness” level correlates with overall “strong feeling” and days where I have set PR reps on my last set .
The HRV is a good tool…again it’s not like it’s a total shock with new info about when you’re ready to train…but it does prove to you what you already know…long conditioning will wipe you out and lower volume strength work is efficient…and the continual gains on 5/3/1 are proof that “lower volume” work and slow steady progression is where it’s at.
I like the Bioforce HRV for the same reason I LOVE 5/3/1…it’s logical, it’s common sense, scientific, and it works! Do you HAVE TO HAVE the bioforce HRV? No…like Jim says-- listen to your body. But it is a neat tool…and it does show you…PROVES to you what Jim also says—a light warm up (exercise bike at low intensity/heart rate) helps you recover and prepares you to train at a maximal level.
And just since this is my first post in the Wendler 5/3/1 forum…I feel like I should say thank you to him for the amazing books/program. How much time have I wasted training other ways and wishing I was progressing? This program is so flexible…and so many variations…and he places the focus on the LONG TERM (where it should be) instead of the countless programs (wastes of time) that promise massive change in a 6 week period. As an almost 39 year old father, professional, and life long strength and conditioning addict…I know that I will be using one of his 5/3/1 “mods” for the rest of
My life. Doing anything else and expecting progress is self delusional. I am finished
With “impulse buying” the program of the week. 5/3/1 is the answer to perpetual progress. Not special supplements, or magic techniques.
Jim…nice work. You’re the fucking man. [/quote]
Thank you very much. This was really great to read and I appreciate it. Thank you for taking the time to write this.
Ill be honest: when I saw the title of this thread I thought it was a supplement. I’m not familiar with Bioforce but assume it is very much like the Omega Wave. I have some Wendler Simple ideas about how to train while using this but would need to know the readings/what they mean.
For example:
lets say it says you are fully recovered: Spinal Tap or Beyond with Jokers
1/2 recovered: FSL work only (5x5 @ 70-75 TM)
Dead: AirDyne work
Just some ideas about having a plan using this apparatus. There are numerous things you could do for each but the above is as straight forward as you can get. Also, I may be WAY off about how this works. Good luck.
Jim…thanks for reading MY post. I really love your work, and one of the best parts of reading your books are the parts you put in there about TRUELY LIVING. I have felt that way most of my life and it’s awesome and inspiring to see those ideas put on paper.
Training program aside…I wish more people (MEN) would read just the Special Thanks at the end of Beyond. The fire is burning much too low (at all?) inside too many of us these days…thanks for the inspiring words.
As far as the Bioforce…yeah, it’s the poor(er) mans version of the Omega Wave. OW has more variables but it basically boils down to heart rate variability which both of the companies feel is a snapshot of the recovery process (and thus readiness for training) inside an individual, tracked over time, based on the balance of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. It is a neat objective measurement to have (I am a science nerd so I just had to have another metric to track) but like I was saying…the advice in your book about knowing yourself and your limits really can circumvent the need for those devices. And because the 5/3/1 system is so adjustable based on where you are THAT DAY, the training day can still be salvaged like you suggested in your post…still getting good work done. Since the focus of 5/3/1 is on the LONG TERM, there isn’t any pressure to put in less work on any individual session. I really love that…
For me, just doing the traditional 5/3/1 and FSL won’t wipe me out and my low readiness score will go back up the next day…I think that’s based on an individuals general fitness and recovery ability. Sleep, nutrition, alcohol intake, personal stress, physical stress…all of that plays a part…which we all know anyways. The Bioforce HRV just kinda confirms (objectively) what we know subjectively.
So, usually cutting out the assistance work will work for me…but someone else may be able to do BOTH…but not the conditioning. Really, it’s just like Jim says in his book…you just have to know yourself and be honest. And…deloading isn’t FUN (and the EGO doesn’t enjoy it either)…but it absolutely IS necessary.
Thank you both for the replys.
I can see this as a big help in " training maximally " as in the other Wendler programs, one thing is to listen to the body signals another thing to do what it says 
For those interested :
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_hrv_roundtable