Bill Starr's 5x5 or my Current Training?

Training Bodybuilding
1

First of all, sorry for the long post, but it needed to be this long in order to get my point across. Many people will ignore the post because of it’s length, but for the people that do stay & read it you’ll see I’m in quite a predicament and would REALLY appreciate some help.

I’ll start with my stats:

Age - 21
Height - 5,10"
Weight - 245lbs
Bodyfat - 13/14%
Experience - 6 Years
Insulin Dependent Diabetic

AAS Experience - Just come off my first ever cycle & I’m fine with admitting that. No point lying if I’m looking for help. I won’t say any more than that incase it’s against the rules.

Equipment:

I train at home & have access to: Power Rack (with pullup attachment), Olympic Barbell/EZ Bar, Olympic Dumbbells, Olympic Weights, Inc/Flat/Dec Bench, Preacher Attachment.

Goals:

My goals are simple. Basically I want to get as big as I possibly can & have the aesthetics to go with it. I’m happy with my bodyfat at the moment and can probably afford to add a couple % to my bodyfat & still be content. For an idea of just HOW big I want to get here’s an example… If somebody said to me “you can look like Lee Priest/Markus Ruhl/Kevin Levrone etc RIGHT NOW” I would jump at the chance.

I’d also like the muscle to be functional (e.g. strength to go with it) but that’s not TOO important. I’m mainly in it for the size.

Here’s my situation:

For the first couple years of training it was mainly experimental stuff etc & I didn’t really know a lot about diet/training etc. I then started to get more knowledgeable about things & designed my own routine based around what I had learnt. Over the years I’ve make some changes to it, but the general idea has stayed the same. I start off with routine number ONE & do it for 8 weeks. I then take a week off & change to routine number TWO & do that for 8 weeks. The only difference is that nearly every single exercise has changed, but they target the same muscles. E.g. I change from Barbell Bench to Dumbbell Bench or change from Close Grip Bench to Dips etc.

If after a while I’m starting to notice that I’m plateauing I’ll change my rep ranges from 6-8 to 10-12. This usually helps, but recently I’ve noticed that even this isn’t working that well anymore. I’ve never used a “cookie cutter” program such as Bill Starr’s 5x5 before & am wondering whether it will do me any good to try it out for a while (I would use the advanced program). The thing is, like I mentioned above I’m going for mainly size & am not sure how well Bill Starr’s 5x5 will benefit me in that section (e.g. is it mainly a strength routine?).

So basically I’m not sure whether to just stick with my routines & carry on the way I’ve been training (changing rep ranges/exercises every 8 weeks etc) & hope that the reason my gains have been slowing down is NOT the routine but other factors (diet, sleep etc?) OR I could change my routine completely & try out Bill Starr’s 5x5. I could even try out something else, but the one thing I don’t want to do is waste my time trying out a routine that hasn’t been tested & shown to work. Routines like Bill Starr’s 5x5 have been shown to work, so that’s one of the reasons I’d choose it.

Bill Starr’s 5x5 - Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

Here are my routines I use & alternate like I mentioned above:

[quote]ROUTINE ONE (Ever so often I change from 6-8 to 10-12 reps)

Monday - Chest/Triceps/Traps

3 x 6 Flat Barbell Bench

3 x 6 Incline Dumbbell Bench

3 x 6 Flat Dumbbell Chest Flyes

3 x 6 Close Grip Bench Press

3 x 6 Skull Crushers

3 x 6 Barbell Shrugs

Wednesday - Back/Biceps

3 x 6 Weighted Pullups

3 x 6 Barbell Deadlifts

3 x 6 Barbell Rows

3 x 6 Dumbbell Rows

3 x 6 Barbell Curls

3 x 6 Hammer Curls

Friday - Legs/Shoulders

3 x 6 Barbell Full Squats

3 x 6 Straight Leg Deadlifts

3 x 15 Seated Calf Raises

3 x 6 Military Press

3 x 8 Bent Over BTB Raises

3 x 8 Side Lateral Raises[/quote]

[quote]ROUTINE TWO (Ever so often I change from 6-8 to 10-12 reps)

Monday - Chest/Triceps/Traps

3 x 6 Flat Dumbbell Bench

3 x 6 Incline Barbell Bench

3 x 6 Incline Dumbbell Chest Flyes

3 x 6 Bench Dips

3 x 6 Triceps Extensions

3 x 6 Dumbbell Shrugs

Wednesday - Back/Biceps

3 x 6 Weighted Pullups

3 x 6 Rack Deadlifts

3 x 6 Barbell Corner Rows

3 x 6 Weighted Supine Rows

3 x 6 Preacher Curls

3 x 6 Standing DB Curls

Friday - Legs/Shoulders

3 x 6 Barbell Full Squats

3 x 6 Straight Leg Deadlifts

3 x 15 Single Arm Standing Calf Raises

3 x 6 Dumbbell Military Press

3 x 10 Lying BTB Raises

3 x 10 Lying Lateral Raises[/quote]

2

I’m not trying to be a dick, and I didn’t read your entire post but after training for 6 years shouldn’t you have a much better idea of what works for you than anyone here?

3

If you read the entire post you’d see that I HAVE been using a program that’s worked for me for 6 years & I’ve been alternating it etc so that I don’t plateau (so I’ve had no reason to try much else). The way I’ve been training got me to where I am today so it’s obviously been working fine, but it seems that now the inevitable has happened and I do seem to have plateau’d & I’m not sure what to do as I’ve only really ever used the training method I explained above.

The answer to your question is in the first post :slight_smile:

I can appreciate that it’s a hell of a post though & is probably boring to read through.

4

I think some writer on here once said that powerlifters can bodybuild and bodybuilders can powerlift. So, I do not see anything wrong with going through a phase of a strength routine such as Bill Starr’s for a brief period during the training year. It can be done in your competitive or recreational offseason. Notice how I said brief. Your main goal is size and you have listed two elite bodybuilders as examples of what you want to look like. These men got to where they are (WERE, in Levrone’s case) with bodybuilding routines. And they are NOT weak. Levrone benched 500 for reps.

What do you want to be functional FOR? Basketball training is functional for basketball! Golf training is functional for golf! And so on, etc, etc, ad infinitum. This whole functional term drives me up a wall. People say shit with crafty disclaimers like “I have respect for bodybuilders BUT…if you get them on a playing field, if you have them run…, they are all show and no go…blah, blah, blah, etc, etc…” Bodybuilding training is functional for bodybuilding. Other than genetic mutants like Flex Wheeler, Shawn Ray, and Paul Dillet, I do not know of many bodybuilders who do not have decent strength levels, mostly because most of them have to but ass to get size. Dillet trainined like a fuckin’ half zombie and still grew. But he never had the physique that could go at it with the likes of Mike Francois, Dorian Yates, Levrone, Markus Ruhl, and many others. This is because he trained like a zombified pussy. Same goes for Flex and Shawn Ray. Ray put on 7 lbs of muscle tissue from 1987 to the late 90s because he trained and ate like a jackass pussy. So, in other words if you do things right, you will gain decent strength levels, considering you are not like the three freaks listed.

You say your main aim is size. What training is appropriate for the most size possible? Bodybuilding training! That is it! So, bodybuild for MOST of the year and do a bit of strength training if that is what you like. Personally, I do not give a shit for performance on a field or a court since I am only in this for size and body composition (bodybuilding).

Your programs look good for bodybuilding for the most part. You do not have much for a thorough bodybuilding leg routine, in my opinion. I feel the general rule for bodybuilding is 2 to 4 main sets of 2 to 4 exercises per muscle group, perhaps 5 exercises for back if you include rear delts and deadlifts along with exercises for the lats and thickness and traps (I do mine on shoulder day). You have ONE exercise for quads, one for hams, one for calves. I do three for quads and hams and two for calves. Most bodybuilders do the same.

You are quite young to use AAS. I do not think this is a wise decision and this is nothing to do with morals as I do not judge AAS on moral grounds. They are illegal, they have risk, and they cost dough. Personally, I couldn’t see myself tampering with those sort of matters at 21. You are not even at a peaking age for BB yet. You have A LOT of time to grow, perhaps into your 40s if you do things correctly. Steve Goodin looks like he has the body of a 27 year old at age 47 and he is natural. However, everyone has their tastes. And if you want to be a freak, go ahead! Just be wise. 21 is too soon in my opinion.

You also have IDDM. I am sure you see an endocrinologist. What does he think of your AAS use?

Refer to CT’s training Roadmap and How to Design a Damn Good Program 1 and 2. This is more than enough information to design your programs. These are the best articles for bodybuilding program design in my view. Pump Down the Volume is great as well. If you have half a brain, you can write your own programs from these articles alone. Also refer to articles by Clay Hyght, Lonnie Lowery, Ron Harris, and Rob Fortney since they are bodybuilders with experience as well. I pay minimal attention to non bodybuilding writers.

Do not get caught up with this constant changing shit. Many bodybuilders have made gains for months or YEARS on the same damn programs.

Bill Starr’s routine is not bad at all. It helped quite a few people, including myself gain strength and some size. It does not have the size building quality of a pure SIZE PROGRAM though. There are drawbacks to the routine though. But all routines do. Its not the most balanced routine there is.