It’s notated as a raw (with wraps) world record. It’s not being compared to belt-only raw records. The only organization that I’m aware of that keeps track of all-time records regardless of federation is powerlifting watch, and they make the distinction.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
It’s notated as a raw (with wraps) world record. It’s not being compared to belt-only raw records. The only organization that I’m aware of that keeps track of all-time records regardless of federation is powerlifting watch, and they make the distinction.
[/quote]
Hmmm. Did not know that. Thanks for the clarification.
I really don’t follow all-time stuff that closely so I guess I rescind my objection.
Although I do think RAWWWWWWW and raw records would be sweet.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
It’s notated as a raw (with wraps) world record. It’s not being compared to belt-only raw records. The only organization that I’m aware of that keeps track of all-time records regardless of federation is powerlifting watch, and they make the distinction.
[/quote]
Hmmm. Did not know that. Thanks for the clarification.
I really don’t follow all-time stuff that closely so I guess I rescind my objection.
Although I do think RAWWWWWWW and raw records would be sweet.[/quote]
Agreed , old school gear would give me less than a good wrap job now. But if they allowed wraps I’d be satisfied with it. With 47 year old knees I’d like wraps and hate using suits now .
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Agreed , old school gear would give me less than a good wrap job now. But if they allowed wraps I’d be satisfied with it. With 47 year old knees I’d like wraps and hate using suits now .[/quote]
Yeah, I was bummed when USAPL voted to disallow knee wraps for RAW. To me, if you powerlift, wraps and belt are raw.
Also, I have several older friends that tired of the gear (bench shirts in particular) and came pretty competitive in RAW comp and two of them are sidelined now with hip and shoulder injuries and most of teh rest are all having recurrence of injuries from the past that weren’t an issue prior.
I don’t care what anybody says, performance issues aside, my experience tells me that intelligent use of gear (read not to the absence of raw training) protects a lifter’s longevity in the sport.
I would compete raw if they allowed knee wraps.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Agreed , old school gear would give me less than a good wrap job now. But if they allowed wraps I’d be satisfied with it. With 47 year old knees I’d like wraps and hate using suits now .[/quote]
Yeah, I was bummed when USAPL voted to disallow knee wraps for RAW. To me, if you powerlift, wraps and belt are raw.
Also, I have several older friends that tired of the gear (bench shirts in particular) and came pretty competitive in RAW comp and two of them are sidelined now with hip and shoulder injuries and most of teh rest are all having recurrence of injuries from the past that weren’t an issue prior.
I don’t care what anybody says, performance issues aside, my experience tells me that intelligent use of gear (read not to the absence of raw training) protects a lifter’s longevity in the sport.
I would compete raw if they allowed knee wraps.[/quote]
they do in the SPF
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
I would compete raw if they allowed knee wraps.[/quote]
Come to the dark side!
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Come to the dark side![/quote]
Ha.
TBH, I have attended a few of the APF meets up here lately and they are pretty well run. A far cry from how they were 5-6 years ago when I did a lot of head shaking at lifts that were passed.
I think part of that is because the Damminga’s are involved and doing some good stuff. They’re good for the sport.
My point being, don’t think it hasn’t crossed my mind.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Come to the dark side![/quote]
Ha.
TBH, I have attended a few of the APF meets up here lately and they are pretty well run. A far cry from how they were 5-6 years ago when I did a lot of head shaking at lifts that were passed.
I think part of that is because the Damminga’s are involved and doing some good stuff. They’re good for the sport.
My point being, don’t think it hasn’t crossed my mind.[/quote]
The APF down here is pretty good, also. The SPF, as it grows, will become more and more consistent and you will see less gifts. There is a world of difference in the judging now is far better than it was just 3 years ago when Westside started having them sanction meets. This happens with every fed it seems, IPA is the same.
I know the knee wraps add pounds and help knee health, but how much do sleeves help knee health compared to the wraps?
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]Astar wrote:
What’s frustrating is that Wilkerson got a gift and this illegitimate lift is an all time record and huge milestone in raw lifting[/quote]
Once again.
Are you a judge in the SPF?
Are you even a judge in any federation?
Were you at this meet in the side judge’s chair to view indisputably that the squat was, in fact, a gift?
Here’s the thing. You very likely answered “no” to all of those questions. That means that there are two men who answered “yes” to all of those questions, neither of which are you, and they both conclusively disagree with you.
You lose that battle. You lose that battle every time.[/quote]
There were at least 2 judges who agreed that Mike Miller’s 1220 was to depth. They were wrong
Likewise the judges here are wrong. The high squat is high
[quote]Astar wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]Astar wrote:
What’s frustrating is that Wilkerson got a gift and this illegitimate lift is an all time record and huge milestone in raw lifting[/quote]
Once again.
Are you a judge in the SPF?
Are you even a judge in any federation?
Were you at this meet in the side judge’s chair to view indisputably that the squat was, in fact, a gift?
Here’s the thing. You very likely answered “no” to all of those questions. That means that there are two men who answered “yes” to all of those questions, neither of which are you, and they both conclusively disagree with you.
You lose that battle. You lose that battle every time.[/quote]
There were at least 2 judges who agreed that Mike Miller’s 1220 was to depth. They were wrong
Likewise the judges here are wrong. The high squat is high[/quote]
The difference here is that Miller’s 1220 was conclusively high. It wasn’t even close. Still, the judges white lighted it so it stands. Those judges should not be allowed to judge any more, but in no other sport is a final result overturned due to a bad call by an official.
This squat is far harder to judge and not even comparable. I don’t care what any e-judge claims, you can’t conclusively make a call on a squat that is close from a video when the squatter is a 415 lb black man wearing a black singlet and the video is a low quality cell phone video from an angle other than the side.
For the umpteenth time, get over it.
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/17462
Compare it to
The second squat Andrei makes.
His second squat is deeper than Wilkersons clearly, pause it and frame by frame it if you like. And gets red lighted.
This is a massive milestone for raw lifting, if Wilkerson can do it that fast and easily and to depth why doesn’t he compete out of the SPF, and why is his deadlift so low relatively? Every other raw squatter who squats anything like that is a tremendous puller, ie. Mark Henry, Big Don Andrei, etc
I love powerlifting, I respect everyone who gives devotion to the sport, regardless of whether you are in gear, wraps, raw, or whatever.
Robert Wilkerson is far
far
far stronger than I will ever be
I respect him a ton
He is massive as hell
but the squat is high and would have passed in no other federation. Is it impressive? Fuck yeah, he is terrifyingly strong and dedicated.
I am not attacking the man, he is one of the best powerlifters ever. I paused that squat at the bottom and watched frame by frame, that is a Miller Squat It actually looks almost exactly the same in regards to depth.
I won’t be commenting in this thread again, the man is an incredible lifter, a great human being whom I respect a lot from what I hear and terrifyingly strong, but that squat should not have gotten whites and I can’t figure out how you could rationalize it to be to legitimate depth.
I think often judges must feel pressured in such a way as to want to call a squat like that legitimate precisely BECAUSE it is such a massive milestone and expansion of the boundaries of human capability. And before someone says it, no I can’t walk out a grand, no I am not a judge.
^I am going to guess he does not deadlift as much due to his 450lb fucking pound self. Its a bit harder to pull raw the heavier you get
x2 on the e judge thing.
Look at the EFS link, Chad W. Smith was there, from the side, few feet away, and he says it looked good.
[quote]BEAR BORN wrote:
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/17462
Compare it to
The second squat Andrei makes.
His second squat is deeper than Wilkersons clearly, pause it and frame by frame it if you like. And gets red lighted.
This is a massive milestone for raw lifting, if Wilkerson can do it that fast and easily and to depth why doesn’t he compete out of the SPF, and why is his deadlift so low relatively? Every other raw squatter who squats anything like that is a tremendous puller, ie. Mark Henry, Big Don Andrei, etc
I love powerlifting, I respect everyone who gives devotion to the sport, regardless of whether you are in gear, wraps, raw, or whatever.
Robert Wilkerson is far
far
far stronger than I will ever be
I respect him a ton
He is massive as hell
but the squat is high and would have passed in no other federation. Is it impressive? Fuck yeah, he is terrifyingly strong and dedicated.
I am not attacking the man, he is one of the best powerlifters ever. I paused that squat at the bottom and watched frame by frame, that is a Miller Squat It actually looks almost exactly the same in regards to depth.
I won’t be commenting in this thread again, the man is an incredible lifter, a great human being whom I respect a lot from what I hear and terrifyingly strong, but that squat should not have gotten whites and I can’t figure out how you could rationalize it to be to legitimate depth.
I think often judges must feel pressured in such a way as to want to call a squat like that legitimate precisely BECAUSE it is such a massive milestone and expansion of the boundaries of human capability. And before someone says it, no I can’t walk out a grand, no I am not a judge.[/quote]
I don’t know if you guys really get this, but the USAPL won’t let guys like Wilk compete. In order for his lift to have credibility with the online troll mafia, Wilk would have to compete in the USAPL, and I’m fairly certain there’s a good reason why he’s not.
No one is rationalizing that is legitimate depth. They are saying that, let me say this, one more time, in all caps in bold for the attention impaired:
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ACCURATELY JUDGE DEPTH ON A 415 LB BLACK MAN WEARING A BLACK SINGLET FROM A LOW QUALITY CELL PHONE VIDEO TAKEN FROM AN ANGLE OTHER THAN DIRECTLY FROM THE SIDE.
Fair enough?
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]BEAR BORN wrote:
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/17462
Compare it to
The second squat Andrei makes.
His second squat is deeper than Wilkersons clearly, pause it and frame by frame it if you like. And gets red lighted.
This is a massive milestone for raw lifting, if Wilkerson can do it that fast and easily and to depth why doesn’t he compete out of the SPF, and why is his deadlift so low relatively? Every other raw squatter who squats anything like that is a tremendous puller, ie. Mark Henry, Big Don Andrei, etc
I love powerlifting, I respect everyone who gives devotion to the sport, regardless of whether you are in gear, wraps, raw, or whatever.
Robert Wilkerson is far
far
far stronger than I will ever be
I respect him a ton
He is massive as hell
but the squat is high and would have passed in no other federation. Is it impressive? Fuck yeah, he is terrifyingly strong and dedicated.
I am not attacking the man, he is one of the best powerlifters ever. I paused that squat at the bottom and watched frame by frame, that is a Miller Squat It actually looks almost exactly the same in regards to depth.
I won’t be commenting in this thread again, the man is an incredible lifter, a great human being whom I respect a lot from what I hear and terrifyingly strong, but that squat should not have gotten whites and I can’t figure out how you could rationalize it to be to legitimate depth.
I think often judges must feel pressured in such a way as to want to call a squat like that legitimate precisely BECAUSE it is such a massive milestone and expansion of the boundaries of human capability. And before someone says it, no I can’t walk out a grand, no I am not a judge.[/quote]
I don’t know if you guys really get this, but the USAPL won’t let guys like Wilk compete. In order for his lift to have credibility with the online troll mafia, Wilk would have to compete in the USAPL, and I’m fairly certain there’s a good reason why he’s not.
No one is rationalizing that is legitimate depth. They are saying that, let me say this, one more time, in all caps in bold for the attention impaired:
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ACCURATELY JUDGE DEPTH ON A 415 LB BLACK MAN WEARING A BLACK SINGLET FROM A LOW QUALITY CELL PHONE VIDEO TAKEN FROM AN ANGLE OTHER THAN DIRECTLY FROM THE SIDE.
Fair enough?[/quote]
What’s wrong with the USPA? No drug testing and they mostly enforce the rules as they’re written.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]Astar wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]Astar wrote:
What’s frustrating is that Wilkerson got a gift and this illegitimate lift is an all time record and huge milestone in raw lifting[/quote]
Once again.
Are you a judge in the SPF?
Are you even a judge in any federation?
Were you at this meet in the side judge’s chair to view indisputably that the squat was, in fact, a gift?
Here’s the thing. You very likely answered “no” to all of those questions. That means that there are two men who answered “yes” to all of those questions, neither of which are you, and they both conclusively disagree with you.
You lose that battle. You lose that battle every time.[/quote]
There were at least 2 judges who agreed that Mike Miller’s 1220 was to depth. They were wrong
Likewise the judges here are wrong. The high squat is high[/quote]
The difference here is that Miller’s 1220 was conclusively high. It wasn’t even close. Still, the judges white lighted it so it stands. Those judges should not be allowed to judge any more, but in no other sport is a final result overturned due to a bad call by an official.
This squat is far harder to judge and not even comparable. I don’t care what any e-judge claims, you can’t conclusively make a call on a squat that is close from a video when the squatter is a 415 lb black man wearing a black singlet and the video is a low quality cell phone video from an angle other than the side.
For the umpteenth time, get over it.[/quote]
I’m under no illusion that my disagreement is going to get the lift rescinded. It’s done, the lift is in the books and Wilkerson is the first guy to squat a grand raw. He even got it tattooed on his arm.
The argument that he is too big and his clothes are too dark to judge his depth is just false. His hips and knees are in the same place as anyone elses and no matter how fat he is or how dark his singlet his hip crease is above his knee
I’ve watched every different angle of this squat, and there are a number. No matter which way I look at it he is still high and the lift doesn’t deserve whites
That doesn’t look like the lowest point.
[quote]Astar wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]Astar wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]Astar wrote:
What’s frustrating is that Wilkerson got a gift and this illegitimate lift is an all time record and huge milestone in raw lifting[/quote]
Once again.
Are you a judge in the SPF?
Are you even a judge in any federation?
Were you at this meet in the side judge’s chair to view indisputably that the squat was, in fact, a gift?
Here’s the thing. You very likely answered “no” to all of those questions. That means that there are two men who answered “yes” to all of those questions, neither of which are you, and they both conclusively disagree with you.
You lose that battle. You lose that battle every time.[/quote]
There were at least 2 judges who agreed that Mike Miller’s 1220 was to depth. They were wrong
Likewise the judges here are wrong. The high squat is high[/quote]
The difference here is that Miller’s 1220 was conclusively high. It wasn’t even close. Still, the judges white lighted it so it stands. Those judges should not be allowed to judge any more, but in no other sport is a final result overturned due to a bad call by an official.
This squat is far harder to judge and not even comparable. I don’t care what any e-judge claims, you can’t conclusively make a call on a squat that is close from a video when the squatter is a 415 lb black man wearing a black singlet and the video is a low quality cell phone video from an angle other than the side.
For the umpteenth time, get over it.[/quote]
I’m under no illusion that my disagreement is going to get the lift rescinded. It’s done, the lift is in the books and Wilkerson is the first guy to squat a grand raw. He even got it tattooed on his arm.
The argument that he is too big and his clothes are too dark to judge his depth is just false. His hips and knees are in the same place as anyone elses and no matter how fat he is or how dark his singlet his hip crease is above his knee
I’ve watched every different angle of this squat, and there are a number. No matter which way I look at it he is still high and the lift doesn’t deserve whites[/quote]
That’s a great picture from the side angle, and definitely at the bottom of the lift because it’s definitely not apparent that he’s in motion at the moment you took that screen shot.
Oh wait.
Personally I’d love to see some technology introduced to squat judging. A couple of stickies that go on say the ischial tuberosity and the tibial plateau, both are easy to palpate even on a man this size. Then when the one on the IT passes below the one on the TP it beeps and records depth as good. It would take all this guesswork out of things.
Judges would still be necessary to evaluate the rest of the lift but the question of depth would be removed.
Massive LOL to all the haters