I agree that if gaining muscle is your primary goal, that much running at that kind of frequency is going to inhibit you. If you really have your heart set on running that much and WANT (keyword here) to run that much, then do it, but it wouldnt be my first choice.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
I agree that if gaining muscle is your primary goal, that much running at that kind of frequency is going to inhibit you. If you really have your heart set on running that much and WANT (keyword here) to run that much, then do it, but it wouldnt be my first choice.[/quote]
Once I went back and reviewed our previous discussion about this, I realized that this is essentially what you were telling me before: If I really want to run, fine, but this won’t be the most conducive to me putting on muscle…
So, here’s my official decision: After just two weeks on Rippetoe’s, I absolutely love this program and believe strongly that it can help me achieve in muscle-building what I’ve only been dreaming about for the last two years. Why keep wasting time at the gym if I’m never going to add one pound of muscle? So, I need to just relax and let this program work. If this means I put a few pounds of fat on while I add, say, 10 pounds of muscle, so be it! (Maybe even 20 pounds of muscle… LOL)
That said, what’s the proper amount and form of cardio during Rippetoe’s? What Northaway is suggesting? Just want to get your opinion now that you know that I’ve decided that my primary goal is adding muscle!
My suggestion was simply an addition to Stronghold’s previous post.
As for the diet; This is MY view:
Read Thibs article on newb nutrition (came out in a series of three articles on training, nutrition and supplements)
8am meal - Eat your bread, peanut butter and hit 3/4 whole eggs. Save your protein bars for when you are out of the house or can’t be fucked making a meal because you are too busy.
10am - Protein plus good fats (avocado, fish oil, extra virgin olive etc…)
6.30pm meal - add more protein to this.
Try and get your bodyweight in protein (or a little above) and plenty of good fats.
Take your scale weight in the morning every 1.5 weeks for two days in a row - if the scale is not going up(1 pound/ 2 pounds) add calories in the form of good fats or more protein.
This is not a overly critical view of your diet because we are trying to take baby steps ; if you want to follow a more hardcore diet (as prescribed by thibs etc…) and concentrate on your macro’s more go for it but just remember not to sweat the small stuff too much just yet.
N.
[quote]Northaway wrote:
Try and get your bodyweight in protein (or a little above) and plenty of good fats.[/quote]
Thank God for Metabolic Drive! Otherwise, not sure how I’d get so much protein without pigging out a little too much!
So a pound or two a week is what I’m after in this stage? That’s good news, since I’ve put on 3 or 4 pounds since starting Rippetoe’s two weeks ago…
[quote]This is not a overly critical view of your diet because we are trying to take baby steps ; if you want to follow a more hardcore diet (as prescribed by thibs etc…) and concentrate on your macro’s more go for it but just remember not to sweat the small stuff too much just yet.
N.[/quote]
Good word and good advice! Keeping it simple and really working hard to not over-think all of this! Glad you guys are so patient!!
Just read this article, “The Fasted Cardio Roundtable”: http://www.T-Nation.com/article/diet_and_nutrition/the_fasted_cardio_roundtable
Another good one from Bodybuilding.com that’s related directly to Rippetoe’s: Guide to Novice Barbell Training, aka the Official RIPPETOE-STARTING STRENGTH FAQ - Page 2 - Bodybuilding.com Forums
Lot of info here, but seems to strongly support you guys’ point about dropping the running if I’m really serious about adding muscle (I am!!!), and adding in some short duration (30-40 minutes) of low-intensity cardio (i.e., walking) if I want to try to control my fat levels at the same time. (BTW, according to my scale, I’ve now gone from 21.5% body fat earlier in the week back down to 20% this morning… go figure!!)
So, again, thanks for working so hard to help me out, guys! I guess now I’ve got my weight-lifting plan (Rippetoe’s); a better nutrition plan (actually eating more than before! I know I still need to work on nutrition, though); and a good complimentary cardio plan (switching from running to 30-minute walks instead)… Very cool!!
Should we talk supplements next? LOL
Switching from running to walking helped me tremendously. It is a form of active recovery, doesn’t tax the body as much so workouts don’t suffer, and I think it’s superior for fat loss. JMHO.
Get some Flameout and a liquid fish oil. Indulge.
I LOVE my coffee, but for some people it can mess w/ metabolism and affect where fat is stored on the body. It may affect insulin sensitivity. If you are looking to tweak things and a hormonal train wreck, dropping the joe in the morning could be very helpful (although the first few days might suck).
Stick with Rippetoe. If you can progress on your lifts and make sure you eat enough, you will be fine. Just don’t skimp on those calories. I’m not saying you should “bulk” or use that as an excuse to overeat, but it sucks to bust your ass in the gym and then not give your body the raw materials it needs to respond to the stimulus and grow.
Finally, when I read your first post my thought was “holy shit this guy is fucked”. Then, you admitted later that you have never done squats or deadlifts. I know you said you’ve read tons of stuff and trained for a long time, but how you managed to avoid solid advice to dead and squat is beyond me. I suspect you knew you should be doing them but avoided them. I don’t mean this to be mean, but as an objective third party, it looks like you probably have been pussying around the gym. Add that to the fact that you apparently never really made any efforts to add weight to the bar (i.e. push yourself to change) and you have a recipe for the suck.
Just so you know, I mean all of this to be encouraging-- there is HOPE. The failure is all your fault and that is good news- it’s completely within your control to fix everything. Just don’t let your tampon string tickle you while you squat or you may drop the weights. 
[quote]trextacy wrote:
Switching from running to walking helped me tremendously. It is a form of active recovery, doesn’t tax the body as much so workouts don’t suffer, and I think it’s superior for fat loss. JMHO.[/quote]
Seems to be everyone else’s HO as well! I guess it’s mine now, too…
Just started doing 6 flameouts/day (2 morning, 2 afternoon, 2 night)… Do I really need to add some additional fish oil on top of this? Does a can of tuna per day count?
Ouch… I was praying no one would bring this up! My wife keeps nagging me that I drink too much coffee (actually, sometimes close to a pot [12 cups] a day)… I’m going to have to think about this one!! Again, ouch…
Absolutely right! The only real reason has been the hernia thing (remember, two surgeries on the exact same spot in the last 20 years)… But I’m ready to get over my fear of a recurrence (I completely expect to NEVER have another hernia!!) and ready to listen to some real expert advice! My way certainly wasn’t working…
ROFLOL!!
[quote]speakman wrote:
Ouch… I was praying no one would bring this up! My wife keeps nagging me that I drink too much coffee (actually, sometimes close to a pot [12 cups] a day)… I’m going to have to think about this one!! Again, ouch…[/quote]
Yikes, I love coffee too and have defended it in other threads…but 12 cups a day - no. My own limit is 12 OUNCES per day. And it is probably good to take breaks as well.
Getting your protein up will most likely help with your energy (assuming that’s why you’re drinking all the coffee) and vastly improve your metabolism. Try to eat more meat.
12 cups a day!!! Your fucking joking; your diet says you have three a day and now we are talking about 12 cups…
I don’t think the caffeine could possibly be having any effect (stimulant properties) on you whatsoever at that dosage- you must be completely tolerant.
READ “caffeine round table”.
N.
[quote]Northaway wrote:
12 cups a day!!! Your fucking joking; your diet says you have three a day and now we are talking about 12 cups…
I don’t think the caffeine could possibly be having any effect (stimulant properties) on you whatsoever at that dosage- you must be completely tolerant.
READ “caffeine round table”.
N.[/quote]
I’ve been a huge defender of caffeine/coffee myself (mostly for selfish reasons but the roundtable article seemed to conclude it wasn’t that big of a deal). But those roundtables also favor HIIT over walking for fat loss and other things that may sound good from a scientific perspective but just don’t cut it in the real world (for some).
Plus, when you consider the article that the OP linked in his original post, nervous system issues together with cortisol and other hormonal/stress related clusterfucks may be playing a huge part in his situation. I am not trying to diagnose or jump to conclusions, but I think it is essential that he cuts DOWN on his caffeine intake and would probably be best for him to cut it out COMPLETELY for a couple of months so everything can “re-set” (if that makes senses). It can’t hurt, and his body being free from the constant drip of stimulant could be “the thing” that flips the switch. Coffee can be “stressful” to the body if not coupled with some activity.
Actually, after I posted the “12 cups” comment, I kind of regretted it, as that may be an exaggeration (i.e, be perceived incorrectly)… My coffee pot (standard size) says it holds “12 cups”; I was filling it up to about the “10 cup” mark, which really only filled my coffee cup (not a huge cup, I think kind of standard size) about 3 times…
And that said, my wife is pregnant and can’t handle the smell of brewing coffee, so about five weeks ago I switched to Folger’s instant (yuck!). And now I’m only doing one or two cups a day… Oh, and for a treat, I might pick up a skinny vanilla latte from Starbuck’s once or twice a week… There, does that sound better?
Sorry for the confusion, and now that that’s cleared up, I think I’m still hearing from the group that I need to cut back on my coffee or maybe even drop it altogether, if only for awhile… But before doing anything so painful, I’ll track down and read the “Caffeine Roundtable” article… LOL
Just an observation. I don’t see you progressing in bodytype for a while.
Your weight/rep scheme will not induce muscle growth in an adult. Combine that with a 3 mile run, and unlimited calories from all your shakes your pretty much asking to stay skinny fat.
I like shakes and stuff but alot of people seem to use them when they aren’t really getting a workout which means its only going to add fat.
I would suggest a more standard bodybuilding similar to 12,10,8. With not that much time between sets. Definitely if you can find a quality personal trainer or somebody to workout with.
Mix up HIIT with your endurance runs.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Speakman, disregard everything Airtruth said.[/quote]
-
We already had this discussion. Sets of 5 arent adequate for muscle growth? Riiight.
-
If he needs to use the shakes to fill out his meals, then whats the big deal? Shakes arent going to make anyone fat. An abundance of calories with a scarcity of activity is.
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A personal trainer like the guy who came in this thread earlier? Or maybe a trainer like the one who is currently giving him the advice that you are telling him to ignore?
This guy is getting on track with a steady diet and a time tested, effective routine and youre telling him to do things the way he was before or pay someone who, in all likelihood, knows only marginally more than he does to tell him what to do?
Speakman, stick to the game-plan.
airtruth,
You definitely have some good points, but have you seen how weak the OP is (again, no offense to the OP)? He has his log posted in this thread. I think he should up his strength with 3-5 months of Rippetoe before changing to a more traditional bodybuilding style workout.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Just an observation. I don’t see you progressing in bodytype for a while.
Your weight/rep scheme will not induce muscle growth in an adult. Combine that with a 3 mile run, and unlimited calories from all your shakes your pretty much asking to stay skinny fat.
I like shakes and stuff but alot of people seem to use them when they aren’t really getting a workout which means its only going to add fat.
I would suggest a more standard bodybuilding similar to 12,10,8. With not that much time between sets. Definitely if you can find a quality personal trainer or somebody to workout with.
Mix up HIIT with your endurance runs.[/quote]
Hmm… Seems like the opposite of what everyone else here is telling me. Have you read the whole thread? The weight-lifting / cardio routine you’re suggesting is pretty much exactly what I’ve been doing for the past 2 years, with no significant results to speak of… So, it’s either make some major changes or just accept my current body comp. I’m going to at least TRY the former before giving into the latter (actually, I’ll never believe I can’t make my body better, even at 40 years old! [or 50 or 60])… A few points:
Weight/rep scheme: Rippetoe’s (3x5 scheme) is designed for “beginners”, but doesn’t seem to be age-specific. Should work great for a 20-year-old and should also work for a 40-year-old. That’s my interpretation… (?)
3-mile run / all forms of intense cardio: The other guys worked hard to talk me into switching to walks / low-intensity cardio so as not to offset any potential muscle gains. Just committed to this plan over the weekend!
Protein shakes: By “shakes”, note that these don’t include ice cream and chocolate syrup. Just Metabolic Drive Protein Powder and water. That’s it. I can’t think of a more low-calorie approach to getting my 170+ grams of protein in every day…
“Quality personal trainer”: No such thing in Lake Havasu City. That’s why I’m on T-Nation!!
“Somebody to work out with”: Likewise, very few serious “bodybuilder” types in town. There were those two guys who helped me when I first started Rippetoe’s, but they’re in town temporarily from Michigan on business. They may be gone already, in fact (haven’t seen them in a week). So, it’s just me, T-Nation and some good YouTube videos…
Not trying to shoot down your advice, but I’ve committed to stick to my current plan. Revolutionary compared to what I was doing before, and this gives me more hope for a decent body comp than I’ve had in a long time…
The best catalyst for change is change itself.
Good luck and lift hard.
-Sab
I concur with Stronghold; nothing could be worse (and more stupid) than changing a plan which is yielding results. Stick to the plan and cut down/out the coffee.
N.
Great Bent-Over Rows today! Chin-ups felt pretty good, too, though still at 2x5 on those. Military press is still feeling iffy (like it might be another week or two before I add weight to that)…
Coffee update: Down to one cup in the morning.
Quick question: My wife is starting to notice my belly. Kind of scary since I only upped my calories a week or so ago… What do you guys think about the Anabolic Diet for me? Been reading about that, but not sure if it’s the right way to go for my particular situation…
How is it going with your cardio? How much are you doing?
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
How is it going with your cardio? How much are you doing?[/quote]
30 to 40-minute walk on my non-weight-lifting days…