[quote]ExNole wrote:
Professor X wrote:
conorh wrote:
I don’t barbell bench press anymore because I think it can restrict advancement once you move into heavier weights unless you have a GREAT spotter who you can trust. I think it is a great exercise for beginners and up until a certain point. For me, once I hit a certain weight, I switched to most dumbbells and then to HS machines. Sticking with the barbell bench would have held back my development.
By holding back your development do you just mean that without a spotter you didn’t feel safe going heavy enough to get a decent workout in?[/quote]
That and I feel the movement locks you into a position that makes it harder to progress with strength gains once you hit the upper limits. Most people won’t ever bench more than 250lbs so I doubt that applies to the majority of people in the gym.
[quote]summa wrote:
I am not sure how anyone who lifts any respectable amount of weight could use a swiss ball for the bench press. [/quote]
I am not a Swiss ball nazi. They can however be useful in some aspects of training. That being said if you buy a real Swiss ball from Sissel, not the crap that most health clubs have, they support a great deal of weight. I believe the one I puchased for my home gym came with literature rating the ball at 800-1000lbs.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
ExNole wrote:
Professor X wrote:
conorh wrote:
I don’t barbell bench press anymore because I think it can restrict advancement once you move into heavier weights unless you have a GREAT spotter who you can trust. I think it is a great exercise for beginners and up until a certain point. For me, once I hit a certain weight, I switched to most dumbbells and then to HS machines. Sticking with the barbell bench would have held back my development.
By holding back your development do you just mean that without a spotter you didn’t feel safe going heavy enough to get a decent workout in?
That and I feel the movement locks you into a position that makes it harder to progress with strength gains once you hit the upper limits. Most people won’t ever bench more than 250lbs so I doubt that applies to the majority of people in the gym.[/quote]
So you feel that using barbells will limit your overall bench numbers? But most gyms have dumbells that dont go anything close to 150. How do you get the dumbells into position once they get up there in weight? I ask becuase i like using dumbells but i had to switch to a barbell since i increased my bench.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
ExNole wrote:
Professor X wrote:
conorh wrote:
I don’t barbell bench press anymore because I think it can restrict advancement once you move into heavier weights unless you have a GREAT spotter who you can trust. I think it is a great exercise for beginners and up until a certain point. For me, once I hit a certain weight, I switched to most dumbbells and then to HS machines. Sticking with the barbell bench would have held back my development.
By holding back your development do you just mean that without a spotter you didn’t feel safe going heavy enough to get a decent workout in?
That and I feel the movement locks you into a position that makes it harder to progress with strength gains once you hit the upper limits. Most people won’t ever bench more than 250lbs so I doubt that applies to the majority of people in the gym.[/quote]
I’m not sure what you mean here. It seems like its harder to progress in strength gains in anything once you get to the upper limits. Do you just mean that the upper limits on a HS machine are higher than a flat bench?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
conorh wrote:
I used to be part of the militantly anti-bench, but now that I learned how to bench properly, I’m ambivalent towards it. I’d still rather be deadlifting, but it doesn’t bother me to bench. As far as it having a reputation as a shoulder wrecker, I think that if you learn how to press properly it isn’t. Your shouldler blades should be set under you before you begin te movement, so there shouldn’t be significant movement of the scapulae under load. Also, you have to not be lazy and do your accessory back work if you want to be able to bench with longevity.
Coming from someone who used to be of your ranks, I think many of you anti-benchers are just rationalizing your lack of work or progress on the press and need to man up. I did, and now I can press more then the 11 year old girls playing hopscotch outside. You should too.
I don’t barbell bench press anymore because I think it can restrict advancement once you move into heavier weights unless you have a GREAT spotter who you can trust. I think it is a great exercise for beginners and up until a certain point. For me, once I hit a certain weight, I switched to most dumbbells and then to HS machines. Sticking with the barbell bench would have held back my development.[/quote]
You were making progress though, I think alot of folks aren’t. They just get it in their head that the bench is bad and don’t do it without making any appropriate adjustment.
Besides, I bet you were alot stronger then the can’t-bench-225 crowd that my post was aimed at when you stopped using the bar.
[quote]baretta wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ExNole wrote:
Professor X wrote:
conorh wrote:
I don’t barbell bench press anymore because I think it can restrict advancement once you move into heavier weights unless you have a GREAT spotter who you can trust. I think it is a great exercise for beginners and up until a certain point. For me, once I hit a certain weight, I switched to most dumbbells and then to HS machines. Sticking with the barbell bench would have held back my development.
By holding back your development do you just mean that without a spotter you didn’t feel safe going heavy enough to get a decent workout in?
That and I feel the movement locks you into a position that makes it harder to progress with strength gains once you hit the upper limits. Most people won’t ever bench more than 250lbs so I doubt that applies to the majority of people in the gym.
So you feel that using barbells will limit your overall bench numbers? But most gyms have dumbells that dont go anything close to 150. How do you get the dumbells into position once they get up there in weight? I ask becuase i like using dumbells but i had to switch to a barbell since i increased my bench.[/quote]
I feel that barbells limit DEVELOPMENT because strength is hindered based on your spotter once you move to heavier weights.
As far as how to get dumbbells in position, you put them on your knees or thigh while standing and then sit down with them in that position. Then you kick them into place.
I am talking about a PROGRESSION. You also have to realize that I benched 405lbs before I moved to dumbbells. I seriously doubt I would have moved much past that or that my chest would be the size it is now had I just stuck with barbell bench.
I’m not sure what you mean here. It seems like its harder to progress in strength gains in anything once you get to the upper limits. Do you just mean that the upper limits on a HS machine are higher than a flat bench? [/quote]
If an exercise, due to the danger in lifting the weight when alone, hinders advancement because of either the risk or the lack of a spotter, then someone is less likely to continue growing in size and strength.
I’m not sure what you mean here. It seems like its harder to progress in strength gains in anything once you get to the upper limits. Do you just mean that the upper limits on a HS machine are higher than a flat bench?
If an exercise, due to the danger in lifting the weight when alone, hinders advancement because of either the risk or the lack of a spotter, then someone is less likely to continue growing in size and strength.[/quote]
That what I thought you meant, just wanted to clarify.
If you can’t or don’t feel comfortable with the leg boost to set the DBs, I’ve seen hooks you can latch to a DB and then use the bench barbell as a rack; i.e. the DBs hang on little hooks just under the barbell. Handy if you lift alone, you can just hook them with both hands, lay down, and they’re already in position to start lifting.
[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
De sleeplijn wrote:
helga wrote:
I have no problem with you doing that, I just hate that you claim to be from Australia, and that makes all us Aussies look bad.
Aussies look bad already without troll status.
This guy actually made you convicts look somewhat intelligent (smart).
Hey dickhead, learn to find Australia on the map before you start bagging it.
[/quote]
Isn’t it “down under”? Kind of like a dingleberry.
U along with paul check believe that a swiss ball is safer on the shoulders?
OOOOOOOOKK i think not.The swiss ball is one of the most dangerous thing’s in the gym IMO .Ive seen more people fall or roll off these things because they try to get into position with some light ass weights or if they make one slight movement on way BAM off they come.Im yet to see one person get injured or complain about sore shoulders or have any shoulder problems.
Just reminds me of something like when i get accused of being on “roids” when the person who is saying that is a skinny little druggie with a beer in one hand and a smoke in the other.
Everything can be dangerous in the gym if u dont know what u are doing.
I fail to see your point here. Are you saying that pectorals are useless muscle group in general? And, how much is the quads or hams involment in typing on a keyboard. Please explain furhter what you mean.
It’s obvious to most of us that those two were tongue-in-cheek examples. Open up your mind for a minute, take a deep breath and try to think again about what I mean.
Are you implyling that benching will inevitably lead to shoulder problems? Regardless of form used? Regardless of other program variables and exercise choices?
[/quote]
Of course not. I’m saying it INCREASES YOUR CHANCES of getting shoulder problems.
I have never used a swiss ball. How much weight can safely be handled on it, and how would you go about doing, say, a 5RM on it.
Different balls are rated differently. If you pick up a good ball, and I recommend you ONLY pick up a good ball, you can get one here in Australia for $95 that’s university tested to stand 2000kg statically and 500kg dynamically.
You’d need to build up to your 5RM, and do it slowly, but it’d be worth it in the end.
Yes, can the OP please explain the term “functional”? I think the whole swiss ball thing is a fad. Arnold, Lou, Frank, Sergio, Franco…these guys never used a big rubbery ball and they did OK. Just another fitness gadget. It can be incorporated into a program, but some of these guys act like your arms are going to fall off and your back is going to explode if you don’t use one. To me, it’s just another excuse to not have to lift heavy weights.
[/quote]
I personally describe the word “functional” in this sense to mean a movement pattern that is replicated in everyday life or the sporting environment.
Saying that, I’d consider EVERY move in the gym functional. It’s just that a lot of movements have more carryover than others.
God help me if I’m on the ground, trapped beneath a fallen tree;
God help you if you put too many steaks in your shopping trolley.
[quote]ConanSpeaks wrote:
I have a some type of recurring injury in my neck that makes my spine go numb when I bench with my shoulder blades pulled in. I have used swiss ball dumbbell presses for rehab several times when I suffered this injury and it still allowed me to do pressing movements while I recovered. In fact after 6-8 weeks of doing exclusively neutral grip swiss ball presses I have been able to increase my strength in the bench.
The bottom line is it’s easy to be a critic of any diet or exercise until you’ve tried it. Further, good coaches try different approaches even if they defy convention and they know that they will fail. Why? Because 1 or 2 of the experiments will result in gains that will outweight the other 8 or 9 failures. It’s those 1 or 2 successes that make the difference between being the best and being like everyone else. [/quote]
It’s good to hear a voice of reason. Thanks, Conan.
[quote]conorh wrote:
I used to be part of the militantly anti-bench, but now that I learned how to bench properly, I’m ambivalent towards it. I’d still rather be deadlifting, but it doesn’t bother me to bench. As far as it having a reputation as a shoulder wrecker, I think that if you learn how to press properly it isn’t. Your shouldler blades should be set under you before you begin te movement, so there shouldn’t be significant movement of the scapulae under load. Also, you have to not be lazy and do your accessory back work if you want to be able to bench with longevity.
Coming from someone who used to be of your ranks, I think many of you anti-benchers are just rationalizing your lack of work or progress on the press and need to man up. I did, and now I can press more then the 11 year old girls playing hopscotch outside. You should too.[/quote]
Hopscotch aside, you do make some good points.
I must emphasise, though, that your scapulae are designed to move when you press something, and if you set them, although you will get more activation of your shoulder joint horizontal adductors, you are looking down the barrel of all sorts of trouble down the track. I hope you get away with it, though.
I have actually seen a swiss ball pop with someone on it pressing 100lbs a side.
The guy was okay, but it could have really been a disaster.
I have actually thrown this exercise in for 8 weeks on occassions. My bench did go up but I can’t say I noticed anything different in my shoulders for better or worse.
Hey CHEKonIT. What statement is next from Chek’s site? “The home of Corrective Holistic Exercise Kinesiology, where you can find the highest quality information, educational material and functional training tools to help you attain all your wellness, health and fitness goals!” (Chek, 2005)
I’m happy to say that the guy is a genius. Not in training, but more in a marketing sense.
There is still time for you. Read the articles on this page, read the forums, and you will save yourself from wasting valuable training years following Chek’s approach to wellbeing.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I don’t barbell bench press anymore because I think it can restrict advancement once you move into heavier weights unless you have a GREAT spotter who you can trust. I think it is a great exercise for beginners and up until a certain point. For me, once I hit a certain weight, I switched to most dumbbells and then to HS machines. Sticking with the barbell bench would have held back my development.[/quote]
HS Machines? How can you bring those things up in a topic like this?
If your goal is hypertrophy and hypertrophy only, and the machine fits you and your natural movement pattern directly, you may indeed stay ahead in the growth:injury stakes. Good luck to you.
But if your goal is nearly ANTHING else, HS Machines will just hinder your development. I hate to keep bringing it up, but they’ve just got NO FUNCTIONAL CARRYOVER!
