Big Arms Without Direct Arm Work

Training
81

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

Most people are never going to be winning any BBing contests. Rather a moot point.

If a guy is able to grow proptionately big/bigger with little to no direct bicep work, what exactly is the problem?

Like I said before, bicep dysmorphia!!
[/quote]

Gee, if someone could build a body that falls in line with what this forum is about, then there is no problem if they avoided direct arm work.

Now…where are those people?[/quote]

Like I said before…very, very few people are ever going to be winning any BBing contests OR even coming remotely close to achieving such a feat. Despite the fact (rather ironically)that many training newbies are quite literally obsessed with doing twelve billion bicep exercise variation (often at the expense of other things).

Reality is spectral dude.

82

[quote]D Public wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Fine, don’t argue. We don’t need it here. You do not have a well developed back or well developed arms. That is why comments about how one should train that go against what built the big arms and back on this site are looked down on when they come from people who do not have well developed backs or biceps.

How is that hard to understand?

Why would I go to the guy who didn’t get accepted into medical school for advice on how to get in?

Why would I go to the guy who failed his board exam for law school for law advice?

Yet, somehow, this makes sense in bodybuilding?

How and why is that?[/quote]

I understand that…I personally do Hammer strength preacher curls every week…I never said not to do direct arm work…

I said chin ups work…and for some people, they might be better than curls…It worked for the guy in OP’s picture(his biceps are not small relative to his body at all)…he himself is not extremely big, but i believe that is matter of him trying to be lean all the time…[/quote]

The guy in the OP has hugely lagging triceps and his biceps only look in proportion because the rest of him isn’t big at all. He is just lean. He would do better training triceps directly initially instead of assuming he needs no isolation work for arms.

83

Oh… hello, what’s THIS?

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/null/forum_roundtable_arms

84

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

Most people are never going to be winning any BBing contests. Rather a moot point.

If a guy is able to grow proptionately big/bigger with little to no direct bicep work, what exactly is the problem?

Like I said before, bicep dysmorphia!!
[/quote]

Gee, if someone could build a body that falls in line with what this forum is about, then there is no problem if they avoided direct arm work.

Now…where are those people?[/quote]

Like I said before…very, very few people are ever going to be winning any BBing contests OR even coming remotely close to achieving such a feat. Despite the fact (rather ironically)that many training newbies are quite literally obsessed with doing twelve billion bicep exercise variation (often at the expense of other things).

Reality is spectral dude.

[/quote]

Who cares if people won’t be winning bodybuilding comps. Why does that change what the rest of us have known as bodybuilding since the 1950’s?

The issue here is guys like you trying to CHANGE the focus of this forum simply because YOU may not have the genetics to do this and be decent at it.

I look like someone who trains for bodybuilding. i do not look like someone who simply could never even place in a bodybuilding comp assuming the conditioning was right.

Why should people be more like the guys who won’t ever achieve much?

How is that helping the rest of us?

What is YOUR development…and why should the rest of us emulate it?

85

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

Most people are never going to be winning any BBing contests. Rather a moot point.

If a guy is able to grow proptionately big/bigger with little to no direct bicep work, what exactly is the problem?

Like I said before, bicep dysmorphia!!
[/quote]

Gee, if someone could build a body that falls in line with what this forum is about, then there is no problem if they avoided direct arm work.

Now…where are those people?[/quote]

Like I said before…very, very few people are ever going to be winning any BBing contests OR even coming remotely close to achieving such a feat. Despite the fact (rather ironically)that many training newbies are quite literally obsessed with doing twelve billion bicep exercise variation (often at the expense of other things).

Reality is spectral dude.

[/quote]

Who cares if people won’t be winning bodybuilding comps. Why does that change what the rest of us have known as bodybuilding since the 1950’s?

The issue here is guys like you trying to CHANGE the focus of this forum simply because YOU may not have the genetics to do this and be decent at it.

I look like someone who trains for bodybuilding. i do not look like someone who simply could never even place in a bodybuilding comp assuming the conditioning was right.

Why should people be more like the guys who won’t ever achieve much?

How is that helping the rest of us?

What is YOUR development…and why should the rest of us emulate it?[/quote]

I’m not saying people should aim lower dude.

I’m saying that the typical body-building emphasis/mindset of smash-every-muscle-group (however relatively tiny to hell & back is not the way for forward for MOST people that train).

The one thing that virtually every guy that I know & know of that doesn’t ever seem to make that much in the way of progress is way TOO much isolation work.

Again, another rhetorical question…would start off a wannabe marathon runner off with sprint training OR would you get him to do a few laps around the block first, then a few miles, then 10 miles etc before you started to really specialize his trainig?

Most people are nowhere close to being advanced in their development, so why debate such matters like they are already?

As for my own development, I’m 6ft6 & about 270LBS…incidentally (in support of what I’m arguing here) my forearms are dispropotionately large in relation to my biceps (even though I do litte to no forearm work).

One size does not fit all when it comes to most advice.

1 Like
86

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

I’m not saying people should aim lower dude. [/quote]

But gosh, golly, gee, you are saying that when you imply that my perception is off for knowing what big is or isn’t in bodybuilding or that proportion is what matters more than SIZE in bodybuilding when they both matter.

[quote]

I’m saying that the typical body-building emphasis/mindset of smash-every-muscle-group (however relatively tiny to hell & back is not the way for forward for MOST people that train). [/quote]

Do tell.

[quote]

The one thing that virtually every guy that I know & know of that doesn’t ever seem to make that much in the way of progress is way TOO much isolation work. [/quote]

Wow. Then you don’t get out much because the biggest reason most don’t make progress is they either don’t eat enough or they don’t really train all muscle groups. How is someone going to do “too much isolation work” if they are really training their legs, back, shoulders and everything else?

You aren’t making sense here. People training like BODYBUILDERS don’t just do isolation work alone so what the fuck are you talking about? Why would you relate what some clueless teen does to what bodybuilding entails?

If they followed bodybuilding, they wouldn’t be avoiding squats, rows, bench press or anything else unless it simply did not work for them specifically.

So again, you clearly do NOT follow any serious bodybuilders or you would know the difference between them and some clueless newb.

[quote]

Again, another rhetorical question…would start off a wannabe marathon runner off with sprint training OR would you get him to do a few laps around the block first, then a few miles, then 10 miles etc before you started to really specialize his trainig? [/quote]

? A person looking to be a marathon runner should train like one. I trained like a “bodybuilder” from day one…and clearly you think this didn’t work?

People who lack any and all coordination may not b cut out for this. Tough luck.

[quote]

Most people are nowhere close to being advanced in their development, so why debate such matters like they are already? [/quote]

? What? Why would someone looking to build a massive body avoid training like the guys who built massive bodies…including how they trained initially?

Bullshit. Post pics. No one gives a shit about numbers pulled out of the air. Your weight means nothing in and of itself.

87

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

I’m not saying people should aim lower dude. [/quote]

But gosh, golly, gee, you are saying that when you imply that my perception is off for knowing what big is or isn’t in bodybuilding or that proportion is what matters more than SIZE in bodybuilding when they both matter.

[quote]

I’m saying that the typical body-building emphasis/mindset of smash-every-muscle-group (however relatively tiny to hell & back is not the way for forward for MOST people that train). [/quote]

Do tell.

[quote]

The one thing that virtually every guy that I know & know of that doesn’t ever seem to make that much in the way of progress is way TOO much isolation work. [/quote]

Wow. Then you don’t get out much because the biggest reason most don’t make progress is they either don’t eat enough or they don’t really train all muscle groups. How is someone going to do “too much isolation work” if they are really training their legs, back, shoulders and everything else?

You aren’t making sense here. People training like BODYBUILDERS don’t just do isolation work alone so what the fuck are you talking about? Why would you relate what some clueless teen does to what bodybuilding entails?

If they followed bodybuilding, they wouldn’t be avoiding squats, rows, bench press or anything else unless it simply did not work for them specifically.

So again, you clearly do NOT follow any serious bodybuilders or you would know the difference between them and some clueless newb.

[quote]

Again, another rhetorical question…would start off a wannabe marathon runner off with sprint training OR would you get him to do a few laps around the block first, then a few miles, then 10 miles etc before you started to really specialize his trainig? [/quote]

? A person looking to be a marathon runner should train like one. I trained like a “bodybuilder” from day one…and clearly you think this didn’t work?

People who lack any and all coordination may not b cut out for this. Tough luck.

[quote]

Most people are nowhere close to being advanced in their development, so why debate such matters like they are already? [/quote]

? What? Why would someone looking to build a massive body avoid training like the guys who built massive bodies…including how they trained initially?

Bullshit. Post pics. No one gives a shit about numbers pulled out of the air. Your weight means nothing in and of itself.[/quote]

Chuckles

Something tells me you are really short!!!

88

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

Chuckles

Something tells me you are really short!!!
[/quote]

?

I am 5’10 and weigh more than you do right now. My pic is right there. Where is your own?

I weigh this much because of hard work in the gym…not because of HEIGHT.

89

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

Chuckles

Something tells me you are really short!!!
[/quote]

?

I am 5’10 and weigh more than you do right now. My pic is right there. Where is your own?

I weigh this much because of hard work in the gym…not because of HEIGHT.[/quote]

I used to weigh as little as 180 (when I was 17)…strangely enough I’ve rejected much of the traditional BBing advice I’ve seen & heard & still managed to make decent progress.

I’m not trying to re-invent the wheel here dude…I just very firmly believe that bbing is full of all kinds of myths & exaggerated half-truths, more than anything because your average BBing author & or supplement supplier knows fully well, distorting the truth in relation to people’s ambitions & (perhapsd even more importantly insecurities *yes, I said it) is a fantastic way to make money.

90

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

Chuckles

Something tells me you are really short!!!
[/quote]

?

I am 5’10 and weigh more than you do right now. My pic is right there. Where is your own?

I weigh this much because of hard work in the gym…not because of HEIGHT.[/quote]

I used to weigh as little as 180 (when I was 17)…strangely enough I’ve rejected much of the traditional BBing advice I’ve seen & heard & still managed to make decent progress.

I’m not trying to re-invent the wheel here dude…I just very firmly believe that bbing is full of all kinds of myths & exaggerated half-truths, more than anything because your average BBing author & or supplement supplier knows fully well, distorting the truth in relation to people’s ambitions & (perhapsd even more importantly insecurities *yes, I said it) is a fantastic way to make money. [/quote]

yes, and one of the biggest distortions and efforts to make money is getting people who already can’t achieve much to think they can avoid training biceps directly completely yet also get optimal development of that muscle group.

91

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

Chuckles

Something tells me you are really short!!!
[/quote]

?

I am 5’10 and weigh more than you do right now. My pic is right there. Where is your own?

I weigh this much because of hard work in the gym…not because of HEIGHT.[/quote]

I used to weigh as little as 180 (when I was 17)…strangely enough I’ve rejected much of the traditional BBing advice I’ve seen & heard & still managed to make decent progress.

I’m not trying to re-invent the wheel here dude…I just very firmly believe that bbing is full of all kinds of myths & exaggerated half-truths, more than anything because your average BBing author & or supplement supplier knows fully well, distorting the truth in relation to people’s ambitions & (perhapsd even more importantly insecurities *yes, I said it) is a fantastic way to make money. [/quote]

yes, and one of the biggest distortions and efforts to make money is getting people who already can’t achieve much to think they can avoid training biceps directly completely yet also get optimal development of that muscle group.[/quote]

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one Prof X.

You never did answer either of my rhetorical q’s regarding the non-direct training of other muscle groups though (forearms + calves etc). Hence, my use of he term bicep ‘dysmorphia’.

92

Wow. This thread is fucking ridiculous.

Gorillaman, post pics or STFU please.

Everyone else who advocates that muscles “can” be built or ‘stimulated’ through these other movements, WHOOPTEE FUCK. It’s about MAXIMUM BENEFIT FOR EXERCISES PERFORMED MOTHER FUCKERS.

I can’t even begin to fathom what goes through peoples’ heads when they spout off shit like this. Moreover why the guys who haven’t cracked 180 lbs feel the need to chime in with their fucking opinions on a BODYBUILDING forum.

93

[quote]SSC wrote:
Wow. This thread is fucking ridiculous.

Gorillaman, post pics or STFU please.

Everyone else who advocates that muscles “can” be built or ‘stimulated’ through these other movements, WHOOPTEE FUCK. It’s about MAXIMUM BENEFIT FOR EXERCISES PERFORMED MOTHER FUCKERS.

I can’t even begin to fathom what goes through peoples’ heads when they spout off shit like this. Moreover why the guys who haven’t cracked 180 lbs feel the need to chime in with their fucking opinions on a BODYBUILDING forum.[/quote]

You can’t prove anything over the internet…all you can really do is debate.

For all I know Prof X could be 115LB woman though I’m sure he isn’t.

94

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:
Wow. This thread is fucking ridiculous.

Gorillaman, post pics or STFU please.

Everyone else who advocates that muscles “can” be built or ‘stimulated’ through these other movements, WHOOPTEE FUCK. It’s about MAXIMUM BENEFIT FOR EXERCISES PERFORMED MOTHER FUCKERS.

I can’t even begin to fathom what goes through peoples’ heads when they spout off shit like this. Moreover why the guys who haven’t cracked 180 lbs feel the need to chime in with their fucking opinions on a BODYBUILDING forum.[/quote]

You can’t prove anything over the internet…all you can really do is debate.

For all I know Prof X could be 115LB woman though I’m sure he isn’t.
[/quote]

Ok, I can get as damn close to proving the ‘truth’ on the internet as possible by holding up a sign with my SN on there. I’m going to do this because I’ve posted plenty of pictures of myself on here.

Why I’m not debating this,

1.) When I normally meet someone for the first time the first thing they’re asking me about is lifting, protein, and all that shit, when I generally NEVER talk about it if I don’t have to. This is because I look like I lift weights.

2.) I do direct arm work, and my arms are getting big.

3.) The big guys (who have been posting for years, backing up with pictures and such) who have the biggest arms do direct arm work. …but I guess this can’t be 100% scientifically proven over the internet, so it must be a farce.

My brain is seriously about to implode.

I’m out.

95

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:

Chuckles

Something tells me you are really short!!!
[/quote]

?

I am 5’10 and weigh more than you do right now. My pic is right there. Where is your own?

I weigh this much because of hard work in the gym…not because of HEIGHT.[/quote]

I used to weigh as little as 180 (when I was 17)…strangely enough I’ve rejected much of the traditional BBing advice I’ve seen & heard & still managed to make decent progress.

I’m not trying to re-invent the wheel here dude…I just very firmly believe that bbing is full of all kinds of myths & exaggerated half-truths, more than anything because your average BBing author & or supplement supplier knows fully well, distorting the truth in relation to people’s ambitions & (perhapsd even more importantly insecurities *yes, I said it) is a fantastic way to make money. [/quote]

yes, and one of the biggest distortions and efforts to make money is getting people who already can’t achieve much to think they can avoid training biceps directly completely yet also get optimal development of that muscle group.[/quote]

I think that’s the part that people are not getting. The goal is OPTIMAL and IMPRESSIVE development of the muscle group. If the goal is huge well developed arms (to me that means over 19 ripped), I don’t see why you wouldn’t train them directly. If the goal is to have OK arms then I suppose that could be achieved with chins and dips. Just leave the dum dums alone and let them do their chins and dips and have their OK arms.

96

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Yeah, “big” is relative…OUTSIDE OF BODYBUILDING. Sorry, but we have a firm grasp of what BIG is within the context of bodybuilding.[/quote]

This. exactly this.

To the kid who told me I dont know what objective means, this post ^ was for you.

“Big” is not subjective. Comparing two competitors is subjective. Amazingly simple stuff here.

97

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Yeah, “big” is relative…OUTSIDE OF BODYBUILDING. Sorry, but we have a firm grasp of what BIG is within the context of bodybuilding.[/quote]

This. exactly this.

To the kid who told me I dont know what objective means, this post ^ was for you.

“Big” is not subjective. Comparing two competitors is subjective. Amazingly simple stuff here. [/quote]
bro jay cutler got hoezzzz and he works his arms DIRECTLY.

/thread.

98

If a guy went into the Powerlifting forum & asked: Will doing 3 sets of 8-10 reps make me stronger, the answer he’d get would basically would be yes, though you’d gain strength MUCH, MUCH faster doing doubles & trebles etc. The same could be said of this argument

The OP never specified ‘optimal’ OR indeed in relation to what level of training experience, he merely asked is it possible, end of story.

99

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:
The OP never specified ‘optimal’ OR indeed in relation to what level of training experience, he merely asked is it possible, end of story. [/quote]

Isnt that the whole argument?
Is it possible to stimulate your bniceps while standing on your head? sure. Optimal? no.

I dont think anyone disagrees that you can stimulate your arms by doing compound movements. It is just not the way to get the best arms possible.

100

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

So I have officially discovered from people that I don’t know that I’m both tiny and have shitty arms. Ah, the enlightenment of the interwebs.

[/quote]

I’m a fan of direct arm work but am not going argue on the topic. However, I’ve seen your pics in the Before/After thread in the T-Cell and if anyone thinks 18.5" arms are tiny, they’re either idiots or they’re just plain trolling.