Better Than the Best

Off Topic
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[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
^ I did not say that lol.

X, you have claimed (too lazy to go find the quotes) that these people exist, that there are recreational athletes out there better than the current record holders, so again I say prove it. Everything in between is semantics and you trying not to be wrong, but you are. Honestly I don’t see how you can keep trying to defend such a ridiculous statement. Bonez hit the nail on the head, the best of the best work full time perfecting their craft, so now, show me a random joe who can beat someone at the top of their sport. [/quote]

Too lazy to find the quotes? Go find the quotes because it is pretty damn clear that you have been arguing what I didn’t even write just like anyone else claiming I said someone was BETTER than MJ or as if they can’t comprehend a discussion about genetic possibilities.

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Lol youve been arguing the entire time that those people are out there, so show us one. Just one and I will gladly shut it. I already acknowledged I didn’t get the original quote, because ya know when people are obviously wrong admitting it isn’t tough, for most of us at least.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
^ I did not say that lol.

X, you have claimed (too lazy to go find the quotes) that these people exist, that there are recreational athletes out there better than the current record holders, so again I say prove it. Everything in between is semantics and you trying not to be wrong, but you are. Honestly I don’t see how you can keep trying to defend such a ridiculous statement. Bonez hit the nail on the head, the best of the best work full time perfecting their craft, so now, show me a random joe who can beat someone at the top of their sport. [/quote]

Too lazy to find the quotes? Go find the quotes because it is pretty damn clear that you have been arguing what I didn’t even write just like anyone else claiming I said someone was BETTER than MJ or as if they can’t comprehend a discussion about genetic possibilities.[/quote]

Good God you’re dense. Your quote was that some streetball player on the streets of Harlem could be better than MJ. There is NO FUCKING WAY that’s happenning under any concievable circumstance, in any time period or in any alternate universe. This is reality, and the reality is that Jordan was an anomaly that combined the best physical and mental make-up with the best coaching and exposure. Anyone who can play is ultimately found, and anyone who can play will seek out the best competition. This arguement is fucking retarded and you are flat out wrong.

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[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
Lol youve been arguing the entire time that those people are out there, so show us one. Just one and I will gladly shut it. I already acknowledged I didn’t get the original quote, because ya know when people are obviously wrong admitting it isn’t tough, for most of us at least.[/quote]

Hmmm, How many times have I written that the discussion was about genetic possibilities? No one EVER wrote about someone we know NOW who can match MJ. Is this that hard to understand?

It can’t be because at least two other well known posters have posted here clearly grasping what I was talking about.

How is it anonym can understand this but you can’t?

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[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Also, I cannot read this thread title without this popping into my head:

No fucking way I’m going to click on that link. That horrible song will be stuck in my head all night lol. It’s already starting nooooooo…

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Because you’ve changed your fucking argument everytime youve been proven wrong, apologies for not being able to follow your ridiculous logic. So you are still arguing on a “what if” scenario? Excellent, is it that hard to understand that you’ve been bitching about me not understanding your hypothetical situations because I argue with facts? hence why you never ever prove your side because you use what ifs. Ill stop posting in here if thats your argument lol because I havent argued that way since the 3rd grade

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[quote]cueball wrote:
You guys have caused me to eat too much popcorn. Now that it’s all gone, I’ll just throw this out there.

This is what X ACTUALLY wrote, since it’s been miss-quoted:
“To believe otherwise would be to believe that no regular guy on the streets of Harlem could ever play basketball as well as Michael Jordan…simply because you never heard of them.”

He never actually said there is someone, right now, greater than MJ. He said “could ever” which allows for the “potential” argument some of you guys have been complaining about. He also said “as well as” not “better”.

Do I think this was a good analogy for defending Lew’s claim? Maybe not. Possible, yes. Is it a big claim? Hell yeah it is.

But I have to mention that Lew wrote “for 6-15”. You guys calling BS have gone straight to the end of range to argue with, though. Do you guys calling BS have as much problem with 495x6? If his working rep range was 6-15 and that’s all he was really talking about was a rep range, then maybe he never actually hit 15 for that top set. Granted, he hasn’t come back to qualify it in that manner though.

Anyway, just some things I’ve been thinking about while you guys have been duking out.[/quote]

A half dozen people have already told X that he has bastardized the original point of contention by bring in the “potential” factor. ‘Potential’ was never once a part of LWHs thread.

The tactic of changing the argument and making a counter argument on the self-made new point is essentially the only tactic he uses in the threads that blow up like this. There is one commonality to all of these threads. X twisting words. Plain and simple.

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[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
Because you’ve changed your fucking argument everytime youve been proven wrong, apologies for not being able to follow your ridiculous logic. So you are still arguing on a “what if” scenario? Excellent, is it that hard to understand that you’ve been bitching about me not understanding your hypothetical situations because I argue with facts? hence why you never ever prove your side because you use what ifs. Ill stop posting in here if thats your argument lol because I havent argued that way since the 3rd grade[/quote]

? My argument hasn’t changed AT ALL. That is why the other poster reposted what my original statement was.

You and others kept changing what I actually wrote…which is why half of these people thought the statement was that someone right now is better than MJ but no one will ever know.

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[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
^ I did not say that lol.

[/quote]

My apolgies. Did the whole highlight and delete thing. Sorry bout that.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:
But I have to mention that Lew wrote “for 6-15”. You guys calling BS have gone straight to the end of range to argue with, though. Do you guys calling BS have as much problem with 495x6? If his working rep range was 6-15 and that’s all he was really talking about was a rep range, then maybe he never actually hit 15 for that top set. Granted, he hasn’t come back to qualify it in that manner though.[/quote]

One man’s ‘qualifying’ is another man’s ‘back pedaling’.

That boat has long since set sail, though.

The rest of the debate is rubbish because the people arguing against underground street ball phenoms are making an argument more analogous to Lew’s claim, whereas the people saying that there are individuals out there with potential who never follow through on it for one reason or another are arguing something completely different.

The latter has nothing to do with someone actually existing who can actually do better than the best.[/quote]

Good post…but if they accept that, then there is nothing left to argue about.

I think we can all see what the goal is.[/quote]

Umm. I know verbal skills are not your strong suit but yea… He didnt agree with you.

But I guess that’s as close as itll get to you admitting that you changed the topic to make up your own argument.

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[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

Good post. Not sure how “LWH can’t really bench 495x15” turned into “there are better bball players on the street than MJ” though. While it is a very large claim, and I don’t particularly care if it’s true or not, I don’t find it as unreasonable as some here.

Here’s an example of a guy that nobody’s heard of that could probably outbench everyone except Hoornstra, Mendy, and Kennelly:

I think he posted this in the PL forum here a while ago.[/quote]

I agree that the main point has been derailed a bit, but here are my thoughts on the matter.

Is there the possibility that amongst the 6+ billion people on earth right now, that some random guy training in solitude is able to beat a world record holder in their respective lift? Yes, that is entirely possible. However, it is not very likely.

The difference in response that sincityiron and lew got was based on one thing - demonstrating said claims. If sincityiron had showed up stating (without any evidence) that he could manhandle 600x3 on bench, he would have most likely gotten a veritable shitstorm of internet hate. However, he just linked a video and let it do the talking. I know that that video certainly inspired me, and I often watch it before I go to the gym to bench press.

Lew, when asked about his lifts, mentioned 495 on incline for 6-15 reps. Quite an impressive claim, as a strength feat such as that has not been seen by the lifting community at large. Such a claim warrants investigation (similar to a scientist claiming that he successfully regrew a man’s severed limb, and the rest of the scientific community making inquiries about the experiment). It is within the realm of possibility that Lew performed this lift, but some measure of proof is logically required to believe a lift that is beyond the best ever recorded.

Is there any doubt in my mind that Lew is a beast of a man from whom I could learn a whole multitude of things about training? No. My main interest in this is seeing something so mind-bogglingly awesome that it would inspire me to push my own training to new heights.

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[quote]thephantom wrote:

Is there the possibility that amongst the 6+ billion people on earth right now, that some random guy training in solitude is able to beat a world record holder in their respective lift? Yes, that is entirely possible. However, it is not very likely.

[/quote]

This was the statement from the beginning, the possibility. Like I have said for pages now and on different forums, if someone simply WANTS to argue every fucking statement made, they will…but the truth is, what I wrote wasn’t wrong at all.

I know that must hurt for some seeing all of the trouble they went through.

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[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:
But I have to mention that Lew wrote “for 6-15”. You guys calling BS have gone straight to the end of range to argue with, though. Do you guys calling BS have as much problem with 495x6? If his working rep range was 6-15 and that’s all he was really talking about was a rep range, then maybe he never actually hit 15 for that top set. Granted, he hasn’t come back to qualify it in that manner though.[/quote]

One man’s ‘qualifying’ is another man’s ‘back pedaling’.

That boat has long since set sail, though.

The rest of the debate is rubbish because the people arguing against underground street ball phenoms are making an argument more analogous to Lew’s claim, whereas the people saying that there are individuals out there with potential who never follow through on it for one reason or another are arguing something completely different.

The latter has nothing to do with someone actually existing who can actually do better than the best.[/quote]

Good post…but if they accept that, then there is nothing left to argue about.

I think we can all see what the goal is.[/quote]

Umm. I know verbal skills are not your strong suit but yea… He didnt agree with you.

But I guess that’s as close as itll get to you admitting that you changed the topic to make up your own argument. [/quote]

He wasn’t agreeing with either of us…and the fact still stands that if people understood what he wrote and really understood what I wrote from the start, this thread would not exist.

But hey, feel free to keep up the “hate”.

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The best thing I can say about this thread is that it made me go and look up some Michael Jordan videos and bloody hell the guy was impressive.

And FTR I used to train in a swimming club with 2 olympic swimmers. I was national standard, training 2 times a day for 2 hours each time, 6 days a week, 24 hours a week and I could not hold a candle to these people. It’s very hard to describe but they’ve just got this knack of incredible physical ability that is way beyond most people who train in that sport’s comprehension, let alone your average Joe, combined with mental focus that is unbelievable. I’m talking physical power and ability in the 99.999999 percentile

Now could someone exist who is better than these people unnoticed? Possibly. But I got attention for my swimming ability when I was training at 11 and got invited to join a local club, then developmental squad etc etc. Despite not having training, my talent was recognised. I can still get good times but I was hardly Michael Fucking Phelps.

FTR This does not really contribute to the conversation I just wanted to reminisce about when I could actually swim well lol

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[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I wasnt involved with the other thread, but

I certainly believe that there are people out there that had the talent to be great professional athletes but for whatever reason didnt make it. Taking quite possibly the best basketball player of all time (Jordan) and saying so and so from the Bronx could of been better if he wasnt a crack head isnt fair and not giving Jordan the credit he deserves (I hate Jordan BTW)

I will say that the Negro League players is the one caveat, I do believe those players could have been just as great as the more revered and popular white MLB players if allowed to play together. It also could be said that if baseball was fully integrated the landscape of the all time great MLB players may be much different.[/quote]

Barbarian!

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Reading all this and the thread where it started has been mildly entertaining. One has to applaud a guy who writes over 30k posts on a message board, and THEN starts trolling. lol

I mean the guy is clearly not stupid, but yet will defend this kind of ridiculousness to the death? Trolling.

and when he totally backs himself into a corner? aah fuck it, ignore ignore. Next thread please…

Troll. A very dedicated troll, but green and hairy all the same.

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Cliff notes?

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Team sport, not likely.

Individual sport, more likely.

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[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
Cliff notes?[/quote]
Durrrrr!!

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[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
I just like to see people lift heavy weight.

I don’t know either of these guys lifting and if someone had told me that moving that kind of weight was possible I would have lol. But having been in a weight room and seeing other people move tremendous amounts of weight allows me to open my mind to possibilities.

Neither of these guys look intimidating so pics wouldn’t support the lifts to me.[/quote]

Just want to point out the gigantic difference that is YOU not having heard of someone, and the person being ‘unheard of.’ It’s especially awesome that you linked a video of Ryan Kennelly as part of that statement, because he is very known(even before he became the world record holder).

Yes I removed the vids from the quote cause it’s annoying as fuck when reading through threads.