Since the short cycle theory has really been catching on around here lately, I would like to present a few choices and have them rated, on a scale from 1-10 (10 being the best) for safety (risk vs. reward) as well as all-out effectiveness. After these are rated I would then like to follow up this post with another one that discusses effective dosages, but for now lets just assume that all of these are “effective” dosages. If anyone feels like I have left out any good combos please include them along with their ratings. Thanks.

(1)Tren. and Anadrol

(2)Tren. and Winstrol

(2)Finasol/Tren and Androsol

(3)Primo and Winstrol

(4)Primo and Anadrol

(5)Primo and Androsol

(6)Test. Prop.

my money is on trenbolone/androsol WITH winstrol thrown in. youve got all the mechanisms covered there

I’m going to try cypionate @ 1000mg day 1, then Stromba at 35mg/day for days 15-28. Would use Propionate, but have heard horror stories of painful injection.

I was looking for replies more along the lines of this: Combo (1) Tren. & Anadrol scores an 8 for safety and a 9 for effectiveness.

Please give me some feedback as I believe this can help to answer alot of questions for us all!

tren and anadrol would not score that 8 and 9! both drugs shut down natural production VERY fast and the drol will cause water gain easy come-easy go. tren, anadrol and winny would be OK, since winny is an anti-progesterone. taking the winny AM only for week 3 would help keep gains.
I don’t understand why d-bol is not on your list.

The combinations that I have listed are in no specific order and are in no way the only ones that can be used in a short cycle. I was just using the tren. & anadrol as an example for what I am looking for in the way of scoring the responses. Why did I not include d-bol? Unlike anadrol (unless used in the company of test.) dbol aromatizes to estrogen. It just seemed to be the lesser of two evils. If you have a suggestion please post it! What would you use with dbol? The more input the better!

All these can give outstanding gains.

Which is “best” depends mostly on how important
cost is to you.

Trenbolone can be the cheapest way to get
saturation of the androgen receptor (AR)
which is nearly achieved with 50 mg/day
(loading with 200 mg on the first day) and
essentially completely achieved with 100
mg/day. If a Class II steroid is also being
used, a novice can often add 15 lb LBM in
two weeks with the 50 mg/dose, and won’t add
more with a higher dose. However someone
who already is say 30 lb more muscular than
where he would “settle” with continued good
training but no drugs, would notice faster
gains with the higher dose.

Primobolan doesn’t start giving fast gains
until up around the gram per week level:
that can be super expensive, and also involves
a lot of injections. Other than that it is

Anadrol does not give bad water retention
problems if it is just being used with
nonaromatizing steroids like trenbolone.
It can give very good bang for the buck.

Androsol also gives good bang for the buck,
you’d probably need about 10 Dianabol per
day to equal the effect of max dose Androsol
usage, and those would usually cost more
than the Androsol does.

Testosterone propionate at doses high enough
to give really fast gains (a gram per week)
may require an antiestrogen and 5-AR inhibitor
to counter side effects. Other than this it
is good. Oh, and also the fact that other
components of the injection are often painful with testosterone propionate.

The fact that compounds such as trenbolone
are very inhibitory is pretty much not
relevant because in a heavy steroid cycle
type of 2 on / 4 off, you have total inhibition
during the 2 weeks anyway. That’s just a given.
You still get natural production fully back
within 7 days or less if following up with Clomid.

Bill: For the sake of argument lets say that money is not an issue. The issue is which ONE combination of anibolics, with all other things being equal (locked on training, diet, etc.), would yield the best results for muscle gain and strength if used for only ONE or TWO short 2-week cycles. In other words, if you had maxed your natural potential and could only do two short cycles, what anibolics would you do and why? Also, in an earlier post you mentioned that 50mg/day of winstrol is no where near as effective as using it in another way, but you never mentioned what this way was because you said it was cost-prohibitive. So, how much winstrol could/should be used daily for maximum receptor saturation? Thanks for all of your advice and I hope this will clear up my questions concerning short cycles once and for all!

Could Bill, Brock or someone else please tell me how they would personally design two and only two short cycles (disregard money as an issue) for maximum muscle and strength gain? I would like to get this show on the road and start out in the best way possible. In the end I am wanting to have gained close to 20lbs. of retainable muscle, but no more due to my lifestyle and would like the best way to do it (assume training and diet will be locked on, because they will). I just do not want to end up experimenting with various schemes and after something like 4 short cycles finally get to where I want to be. Help me to get there in one or two short cycles!!

I personally would use and have used 100 mg/day
of trenbolone acetate (loading dose of 300 or 400 mg on day 1; 50 mg/day Anadrol (divided into four doses); 50 mg/day Winstrol Depot (loading dose of 200 mg/day on Day 1, or if money really is no object I would use twice as much Winstrol); 4 IU of GH per day (however this gave me neuropathy within 2 weeks); and
6-8 IU of insulin twice per day. Really quite effective. Also too much money for me, and
that one 2-week cycle is the only time I’ve
pushed it that hard. No adverse effects besides
the neurpathy: had pain in my hips for several
weeks from the GH though, but it proved

However for a first cycle this would be overkill. 50 mg/day
trenbolone acetate (which is equivalent I think to about
a gram of Primo or a little more) plus 50 mg/day Dianabol
is usually worth 12-15 lb LBM in 2 weeks for those on
their first cycle. Higher doses don’t seem to give more
results. I suppose that this is just about as fast as
the body can grow, and the amount of drug is not the
rate limiting factor here.

Clarification of below post: I was comparing
the 50 mg/day dose level of TA with the gram
per WEEK dose level of Primo. Not gram per day.

Bill, thank you for the input!!! If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting either 400mg of trenbolone on day 1 followed by 50mg a day for two weeks OR 1 gram of primo on day 1 with 300 or so on days 4, 7, and 10 stacked WITH 50mg of either anadrol or dbol AND for a nice addition POSSIBLY adding 400mg of winstrol on day 1 with 50mg/day thereafter and finishing up with your suggested clomid scheme. I only have TWO more questions regarding this topic: FIRST, which would you suggest using (in conjunction with either the primo or tren) and why, anadrol or dbol? SECOND, is it ok to ADD the winstrol to the primo/tren and anadrol/dbol or is it overkill? According to your prior posts I am inferring that the jury is still out on this one, but when in doubt go ahead and use it. Remember, safety is still my main concern so if the addition of winstrol will do anything negative then please let me know. I hope that everyone else that is considering doing just one or two short cycles has learned as much from this post as I have. Your service to this board is invaluable and I again thank you for all of your help!

Bill, the cycle you described (tren, 50mgDrol and 100mg Winny) is exactly the one I’m starting. If I am using finasol (with your ratio) to get the tren, and want to get somewhat near the 100mg a day level, I’d be using say 28 sprays 2x daily? (I’ve used 15 sprays 2x before) Also, what can I do in week three to keep the gains from the anadrol? Would 50mg winstrol+50mg-d-bol AM only work, or would it be wiser to continue the tren and winny at full doses for another week or two(maybe adding in a little d-bol or androsol), and then do the AM thing week 4. I will be using clomid at the end week in both cases, and earlier if d-bol is used in second option. While my main goal is strength, I don’t want to experience the dreaded anadrol “deflation.”

Also, how beneficial or necessary is it to take winstrol with anadrol in order to keep some of its side-effects down?