Best Martial Art to Enroll Daughters In?

Training
234

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:

sorry dude. all to often my buddies will comment on something like that. then we’ll go to the range and they can barely hit center mass on a E-type target at 25 meters, much less a knee or shoulder joint.

That always drives me crazy. You hear it often when some cop shoots someone and kills them. All the hippies will come out and say, “Well, WHY didn’t he just shoot him in the leg?”

Well, because it was a 250 lb. guy running at him with a knife. I’ll take any bullet that hits.[/quote]

Well, you are only supposed to shoot to kill.

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:

sorry dude. all to often my buddies will comment on something like that. then we’ll go to the range and they can barely hit center mass on a E-type target at 25 meters, much less a knee or shoulder joint.

That always drives me crazy. You hear it often when some cop shoots someone and kills them. All the hippies will come out and say, “Well, WHY didn’t he just shoot him in the leg?”

Well, because it was a 250 lb. guy running at him with a knife. I’ll take any bullet that hits.[/quote]
[/quote]

True, and even then you’re lucky if any of your bullets stop the guy, so you’d better also be quite a far distance away at the start, have a weapon with a good number of bullets in the clip, move away at an angle or put some sort of obstacle between you and the attacker, etc…

In other words, most people (law enforcement and military personnel included) drastically overestimate their ability to effectively stop an incoming attacker bent on killing them (especially one with a blade) with a firearm (semi automatic).

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[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:

sorry dude. all to often my buddies will comment on something like that. then we’ll go to the range and they can barely hit center mass on a E-type target at 25 meters, much less a knee or shoulder joint.

That always drives me crazy. You hear it often when some cop shoots someone and kills them. All the hippies will come out and say, “Well, WHY didn’t he just shoot him in the leg?”

Well, because it was a 250 lb. guy running at him with a knife. I’ll take any bullet that hits.

True, and even then you’re lucky if any of your bullets stop the guy, so you’d better also be quite a far distance away at the start, have a weapon with a good number of bullets in the clip, move away at an angle or put some sort of obstacle between you and the attacker, etc…

In other words, most people (law enforcement and military personnel included) drastically overestimate their ability to effectively stop an incoming attacker bent on killing them (especially one with a blade) with a firearm (semi automatic).
[/quote]

good point.

i’ve mentally prepared myself for the fact that i will be involved in 2 or more gunfights/officer involved shootings in my career. statistically, that’s not the case, but i don’t want any hesitation…aod what’s worse, is the 2nd time an officer is involved, many have serious PTSD issues afterwards. i think some assume once it happens it will never happen again…

i take mental prep very seriously when i go to work. every night, i have the same routine, from how i put on my uniform, to my wife saying “be careful” as i leave. i practice drawing my weapon, TASER, cuffs, etc. it all only takes 5 minutes, but it gets my head right as i leave. another one of the things i do that helps me is i read this as i get read : The Defender’s Creed

"I accept and understand that human predators exist. Criminal or terrorist, they take advantage of our civilized society to prey upon the weak. They represent evil and must be confronted and defeated.

I believe that self-defense is a moral imperative, and that illegitimate force and illegal violence must be met with righteous indignation and superior violence.

I will not rely on others for the security of myself, my family and my community. I proudly proclaim that I run with a like-minded pack. I do not amble through life with the mind-numbed herd.

I will train with my chosen weapons, maintain them and carry them in a condition of readiness at all times. I will be mentally prepared and physically equipped to effectively respond to an attack or emergency.

I will constantly test myself against realistic standards to discover my strengths and weaknesses. I will turn weakness into strength.

I will seek to learn new skills and techniques, and then teach what I have learned to other members of the pack. Be it with firearm or blade, empty hand or blunt object, I will hit my enemies hard, fast and true.

I will live a quiet and unobtrusive life, but I will develop and retain the capacity for swift and decisive violence. I recognize that I am the modern equivalent of the traditional Minuteman, and that I may be called to service at any time against heavily armed enemies. I will respond effectively.

I accept that I am a pariah among some of my countrymen, and a quaint anachronism to others. I will not hold their ignorance against them.

I will win, or die trying.

I swear this creed before God, my family and my fellow citizens.

by John Farnam"

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[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:

sorry dude. all to often my buddies will comment on something like that. then we’ll go to the range and they can barely hit center mass on a E-type target at 25 meters, much less a knee or shoulder joint.

That always drives me crazy. You hear it often when some cop shoots someone and kills them. All the hippies will come out and say, “Well, WHY didn’t he just shoot him in the leg?”

Well, because it was a 250 lb. guy running at him with a knife. I’ll take any bullet that hits.

True, and even then you’re lucky if any of your bullets stop the guy, so you’d better also be quite a far distance away at the start, have a weapon with a good number of bullets in the clip, move away at an angle or put some sort of obstacle between you and the attacker, etc…

In other words, most people (law enforcement and military personnel included) drastically overestimate their ability to effectively stop an incoming attacker bent on killing them (especially one with a blade) with a firearm (semi automatic).
[/quote]

that’s why you have a knife too. you know, weapon retention and all that.

training with firearms while fatigued/stressed is a good way to prepare imo. Burpees at the outdoor range, fire at 5 targets, shit like that. or better yet, mortar simulators while doing movements in the woods. the life of a cadet.

Always shoot to kill. When you draw on a target, you had better be ready to kill it. A berserking 250 pound dude with a knife might still kill me if I nick his leg. He isn’t doing anything if there’s 2 45ACP holes in his chest.

Anyone disagree?

240

[quote]Therizza wrote:

Always shoot to kill. When you draw on a target, you had better be ready to kill it. A berserking 250 pound dude with a knife might still kill me if I nick his leg. He isn’t doing anything if there’s 2 45ACP holes in his chest.

Anyone disagree? [/quote]

kind of…a guy i work with shot a guy twice in the chest with .40 cal, and didn’t faze him. he shot him in the pelvis, and dropped him immediately…

i say shoot to eliminate the threat. more or less the same thing, but sometimes eliminating the bad guy’s mobilty is the most effective thing.

however, i will most likely shoot center mass, due to my LEO/military training…

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[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

kind of…a guy i work with shot a guy twice in the chest with .40 cal, and didn’t faze him. he shot him in the pelvis, and dropped him immediately…

i say shoot to eliminate the threat. more or less the same thing, but sometimes eliminating the bad guy’s mobilty is the most effective thing.

however, i will most likely shoot center mass, due to my LEO/military training…[/quote]

while we are drifting a tad of the OP’s topic…

you can’t try to sit there and compare a double tap from a .40 to that of a .45, not even for a little bit. two rounds out of a .45 will at the LEAST disable your target to where you can then escape/subdue/fire another controlled pair.

and dammit sento! it’s a magazine, not a clip.

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

while we are drifting a tad of the OP’s topic…

you can’t try to sit there and compare a double tap from a .40 to that of a .45, not even for a little bit. two rounds out of a .45 will at the LEAST disable your target to where you can then escape/subdue/fire another controlled pair.

and dammit sento! it’s a magazine, not a clip.

You’d be surprised man. There aren’t any absolutes, unfortunately- you still might get the cat fighting you for 10 or 20 seconds before he drops. Still enough time to kill you.[/quote]

of course, which is why you’ll notice i didn’t say two rounds will instantly kill the guy. but it WILL definatly give you a moment to gather yourself and figure out your next course of action.

two .45 rounds traveling over 1000ft/sec with over 500lb/ft of energy will certainly have ‘some’ effect.

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[quote] Here’s a guy who’s been a security guard and a bouncer, talking about the very issue, and he explains it better than I can.

http://www.uechi-ryu.com/interview_with_marc.htm [/quote]

I knew there was a reason I still logged on to T-Nation. This interview is gold. More people need to read it.

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[quote]Therizza wrote:

Always shoot to kill. When you draw on a target, you had better be ready to kill it. A berserking 250 pound dude with a knife might still kill me if I nick his leg. He isn’t doing anything if there’s 2 45ACP holes in his chest.

Anyone disagree? [/quote]

Why not shoot in the head?

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[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Therizza wrote:

Always shoot to kill. When you draw on a target, you had better be ready to kill it. A berserking 250 pound dude with a knife might still kill me if I nick his leg. He isn’t doing anything if there’s 2 45ACP holes in his chest.

Anyone disagree?

Why not shoot in the head?

[/quote]

Well, the difficulty of that shot for one thing.

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[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Therizza wrote:

Always shoot to kill. When you draw on a target, you had better be ready to kill it. A berserking 250 pound dude with a knife might still kill me if I nick his leg. He isn’t doing anything if there’s 2 45ACP holes in his chest.

Anyone disagree?

Why not shoot in the head?

[/quote]

Head: Smaller target. The target is at the extremities. More likely to miss due to head movement. Head is well protected by skull and lower caliber weapons might not be able to penetrate.

Torso: Larger target. Target is in the center, so if you miss, you still have a chance of hitting something (outer edges of torso, neck, shoulder, crotch, hips, legs, arms, etc). Movement of torso is more predictable (body language and telegraphing) and not as quick.

Ribcage is compromised of thin bones that do not cover the entire torso (gaps between the ribs). Also, the frontal area of the ribs is mostly composed of cartilage, which is not as protective as bone. This increases the ability for projectiles to penetrate, which is especially important for lower caliber weapons.

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What’s with all the negativity…where are the psychopaths in this forum, where is your confidence?

I KID I KID!

: D

Well, I was thinking more for myself ( not that I am allowed a gun here in England ) but if I were, my scenario, specially when Therizza asked about the revolver was, as a woman, to seduce him or if he is that crazed he is just coming to me for the kill, stand still like an innocent child, let him get close enough, then blow his head off through the ear.

Would that work?

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[quote]Alpha F wrote:
What’s with all the negativity…where are the psychopaths in this forum, where is your confidence?

I KID I KID!

: D

Well, I was thinking more for myself ( not that I am allowed a gun here in England ) but if I were, my scenario, specially when Therizza asked about the revolver was, as a woman, to seduce him or if he is that crazed he is just coming to me for the kill, stand still like an innocent child, let him get close enough, then blow his head off through the ear.

Would that work?[/quote]

… well, I don’t really know how to answer that. I can shoot someone if they say something like “I am gonna kill you” and start at me with a knife, or draw a firearm. But letting someone hug you and shooting them in teh face, I dunno bout that. You might get in trouble with the police.

250

[quote]Therizza wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
What’s with all the negativity…where are the psychopaths in this forum, where is your confidence?

I KID I KID!

: D

Well, I was thinking more for myself ( not that I am allowed a gun here in England ) but if I were, my scenario, specially when Therizza asked about the revolver was, as a woman, to seduce him or if he is that crazed he is just coming to me for the kill, stand still like an innocent child, let him get close enough, then blow his head off through the ear.

Would that work?

… well, I don’t really know how to answer that. I can shoot someone if they say something like “I am gonna kill you” and start at me with a knife, or draw a firearm. But letting someone hug you and shooting them in teh face, I dunno bout that. You might get in trouble with the police. [/quote]

In a situation in that close proximity…with a gun,you might not even live to get in trouble with the police

251

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Therizza wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
What’s with all the negativity…where are the psychopaths in this forum, where is your confidence?

I KID I KID!

: D

Well, I was thinking more for myself ( not that I am allowed a gun here in England ) but if I were, my scenario, specially when Therizza asked about the revolver was, as a woman, to seduce him or if he is that crazed he is just coming to me for the kill, stand still like an innocent child, let him get close enough, then blow his head off through the ear.

Would that work?

… well, I don’t really know how to answer that. I can shoot someone if they say something like “I am gonna kill you” and start at me with a knife, or draw a firearm. But letting someone hug you and shooting them in teh face, I dunno bout that. You might get in trouble with the police.

In a situation in that close proximity…with a gun,you might not even live to get in trouble with the police[/quote]

Didn’t you know, I’m Neo. I know Kung Fu and can slow-mo and shit.

252

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

In a situation in that close proximity…with a gun,you might not even live to get in trouble with the police[/quote]

Umm, exactly. To me that would be a ‘do or die’ situation. It’s either him or me.
If the police were to question me I would angrily say:

Well officer, where were you earlier when I needed you?

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[quote]Therizza wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Therizza wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
What’s with all the negativity…where are the psychopaths in this forum, where is your confidence?

I KID I KID!

: D

Well, I was thinking more for myself ( not that I am allowed a gun here in England ) but if I were, my scenario, specially when Therizza asked about the revolver was, as a woman, to seduce him or if he is that crazed he is just coming to me for the kill, stand still like an innocent child, let him get close enough, then blow his head off through the ear.

Would that work?

… well, I don’t really know how to answer that. I can shoot someone if they say something like “I am gonna kill you” and start at me with a knife, or draw a firearm. But letting someone hug you and shooting them in teh face, I dunno bout that. You might get in trouble with the police.

In a situation in that close proximity…with a gun,you might not even live to get in trouble with the police

Didn’t you know, I’m Neo. I know Kung Fu and can slow-mo and shit.[/quote]

Well I’m Bruce Lee Roy…what now,mothafucka!? Don’t make me glow on your ass.

254

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
cycobushmaster wrote:

kind of…a guy i work with shot a guy twice in the chest with .40 cal, and didn’t faze him. he shot him in the pelvis, and dropped him immediately…

i say shoot to eliminate the threat. more or less the same thing, but sometimes eliminating the bad guy’s mobilty is the most effective thing.

however, i will most likely shoot center mass, due to my LEO/military training…

while we are drifting a tad of the OP’s topic…

you can’t try to sit there and compare a double tap from a .40 to that of a .45, not even for a little bit. two rounds out of a .45 will at the LEAST disable your target to where you can then escape/subdue/fire another controlled pair.

and dammit sento! it’s a magazine, not a clip.[/quote]

LOL. Tomato tomoto.

255

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
What’s with all the negativity…where are the psychopaths in this forum, where is your confidence?

I KID I KID!

: D

Well, I was thinking more for myself ( not that I am allowed a gun here in England ) but if I were, my scenario, specially when Therizza asked about the revolver was, as a woman, to seduce him or if he is that crazed he is just coming to me for the kill, stand still like an innocent child, let him get close enough, then blow his head off through the ear.

Would that work?[/quote]

Not in the scenario where he is already hell bent on ending your life, especially if he has a blade. If he can get close enough to touch you, then you are most likely dead, and if not you’re going to definitely take some damage and must completely take him out (kill him) very quickly.

You aren’t going to be pulling out your firearm and using it though at that range, especially under the stress of trying not to become a pin cushion. The general rule is that you need 25 feet between you and your attacker with the gun already drawn and pointed at center mass if you want to be able to effectively stop them from reaching you should he/she decide to charge. You need considerably more if you want to draw your weapon first.

Even then you need extensive firearms training, need to know how to move off at angles at the right moment (or put some sort of obstacle between you and your attacker to slow their pursuit), and most likely will need to reload your weapon.

It’s not like in the movies where you just point your gun and shoot and the attacker dies. It’s a very difficult thing to pull off, especially under high levels of stress.