Best Martial Art to Enroll Daughters In?

Training
187

Zecarlo, I know its shocking to consider kicking someone in the head when they’re on the ground. You could permanently damage or even kill them. And FI said earlier in the thread, I believe, that such tactics are not for simple barfights where someone has grabbed your girlfriend’s ass & now you & he are fighting.

But if I believed my life or the life of a loved one were on the line, I’d stomp someone’s head like an empty soda can.

In fact just last night in MMA we were doing an exercise where we were striking the focus mitts & when the coach yells ‘ground & pound’ we’d run to heavy bags laid out on the ground & mount them for non-stop strikes. Every time I ran to my bag I opened with a soccer kick to the head or multiple stomps to the head.

I will never fight in the ring. Hopefully, I’ll never fight in real life either. But this is not a game. If someone’s mom is going to cry herself to sleep at night, its not going to be mine.

I believe we are all in agreement that in an assault a woman could be taken to the ground & therefore should have some skills to fight from there.

So now I’ll ask you - do you believe it is not useful for a woman to have standup skills as well?

188

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
Zecarlo, I know its shocking to consider kicking someone in the head when they’re on the ground. You could permanently damage or even kill them. And FI said earlier in the thread, I believe, that such tactics are not for simple barfights where someone has grabbed your girlfriend’s ass & now you & he are fighting.

But if I believed my life or the life of a loved one were on the line, I’d stomp someone’s head like an empty soda can.

In fact just last night in MMA we were doing an exercise where we were striking the focus mitts & when the coach yells ‘ground & pound’ we’d run to heavy bags laid out on the ground & mount them for non-stop strikes. Every time I ran to my bag I opened with a soccer kick to the head or multiple stomps to the head.
[/quote]

Be careful of getting in the habit of throwing punches from a mounted position if the goal is real world self defense. If your opponent moves their head, bridges, parries the strike (basically if you miss) and you hit the ground with your fist, bye bye fist, especially if you’re fighting on a hard surface (wood, tile, concrete, etc…). Same thing goes for elbows using the tip of the elbow. Palm strikes and forearm smashes on the other hand are much more durable weapons with less risk of injury.

Not saying that you can’t throw punches and elbows in some cases mind you, just to be aware of the potential dangers and the difference that terrain makes.

189

I also believe that fightinirish is full of crap. He brags about all of these fights he’s been in and acts as though it is just another day at the office. He says he would kick a defenseless man in the head, probably a felony, as though it’s no big deal with zero consequences. This is the USA. We have laws and lawyers. No one has sued him yet? He hasn’t been sent to jail? He claims to live in a dangerous part of NJ. Yet no one came after him with a gun afterward or with friends and jumped him? I also live in NJ and it is not only a dangerous part of NJ but of the entire nation. If you go around beating everyone up eventually someone will kill you. No one who is experienced with violence talks about it with such a casual air because they also know the consequences. I call bullshit.

190

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
So now I’ll ask you - do you believe it is not useful for a woman to have standup skills as well? [/quote]

If that skill is running, then yes. Just keep in mind that fighting is dynamic; it goes two ways. Once you start hitting you escalate things to where the attacker will have no problems returning in kind. In training, hitting a bag or compliant partner (obviously not full power), it is a different experience from when the other guy is hitting back with bad intentions.

191

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Miss Parker wrote:
So now I’ll ask you - do you believe it is not useful for a woman to have standup skills as well?

If that skill is running, then yes. Just keep in mind that fighting is dynamic; it goes two ways. Once you start hitting you escalate things to where the attacker will have no problems returning in kind. In training, hitting a bag or compliant partner (obviously not full power), it is a different experience from when the other guy is hitting back with bad intentions. [/quote]

As far as i’m concerned, someone who is assaulting a woman (for unwarranted reasons) has already escalated it to the point of no return. At the point the intentions are clear.

I find it ironic that you are telling this to Ms. Parker, the one person in this thread who probably has the biggest insight on women in dangerous situations.

Fightin’ Irish is not bragging. He’s just letting us know. He is not telling us to go out and drop kick soccer moms in the face. He’s telling us that at one point in time you will have to kick someone when they are down if you expect to make it out okay. Knocking someone down, only for them to get back up again, is pointless. You can be sure that if you are knocked down, whoever will not be kind to you.
We are not here to discuss legal complication (this has been done in very detailed fashion several times before). We are here to discuss self defense for WOMEN.

And you didn’t reply to my post.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
This is the stuff that you don’t see getting taught much, and is really where my instructor stands out. It’s how he makes his living and hence I don’t want to go giving away too much. Hopefully you understand.
[/quote]

Completely understand. I’m not asking you to give us your secrets. Nor do i want “moves”. Just if you could tell us the ideal places to bite someone and maybe somethings to watch out for (like how you should bite with the back of your teeth because they are less likely to be pulled out).

I would love to train with your instructor (or someone like him) but that is something that will not become a reality for a while. Biting is something that is highly under rated and rarely taught at all, so you can imagine how much my interest is piqued now that i know someone is knowledgeable.

I’ll take a moment to mention to anyone that is reading that you should be careful who you bite (if ever the need arises) because some of the people you bite might have HIV (if you get in a fight with a druggie or whatever) or other deadly diseases that might infect you if blood is drawn.

192

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Miss Parker wrote:
Zecarlo, I know its shocking to consider kicking someone in the head when they’re on the ground. You could permanently damage or even kill them. And FI said earlier in the thread, I believe, that such tactics are not for simple barfights where someone has grabbed your girlfriend’s ass & now you & he are fighting.

But if I believed my life or the life of a loved one were on the line, I’d stomp someone’s head like an empty soda can.

In fact just last night in MMA we were doing an exercise where we were striking the focus mitts & when the coach yells ‘ground & pound’ we’d run to heavy bags laid out on the ground & mount them for non-stop strikes. Every time I ran to my bag I opened with a soccer kick to the head or multiple stomps to the head.

Be careful of getting in the habit of throwing punches from a mounted position if the goal is real world self defense. If your opponent moves their head, bridges, parries the strike (basically if you miss) and you hit the ground with your fist, bye bye fist, especially if you’re fighting on a hard surface (wood, tile, concrete, etc…). Same thing goes for elbows using the tip of the elbow. Palm strikes and forearm smashes on the other hand are much more durable weapons with less risk of injury.

Not saying that you can’t throw punches and elbows in some cases mind you, just to be aware of the potential dangers and the difference that terrain makes.[/quote]

Agreed. We never do this in krav for the exact reasons you list, just in MMA.

194

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Miss Parker wrote:
So now I’ll ask you - do you believe it is not useful for a woman to have standup skills as well?

If that skill is running, then yes. Just keep in mind that fighting is dynamic; it goes two ways. Once you start hitting you escalate things to where the attacker will have no problems returning in kind. In training, hitting a bag or compliant partner (obviously not full power), it is a different experience from when the other guy is hitting back with bad intentions. [/quote]

Well, thank you for answering my question, but I can assure you I’ve been introduced to the notion that if I hit someone they will hit me back. I do also have some dim outline of an idea that fighting a human with bad intentions is different than striking a bag. In the future, perhaps you will not find it necessary to talk to me as though you were also patting me on the head.

If a man attacks me, HE has escalated the situation, and he WILL “have trouble returning in kind” once I’ve begun my own attack and escape.

If you assume that because I’ve stated I’ve never been in a classic toe-to-toe “fight” with a man or been raped that I’ve never had to deal with a man who intended to do me bodily harm, you are incorrect. I have, and I’m sorry to say he was brutally successful. Though I train because I enjoy it immensely, the reason behind it is deadly serious. Any son-of-a-bitch who tries something like that on me again had better incapacitate me quickly.

And I call bullshit on your calling bullshit on Fighting Irish. I do believe real world fights count for a great deal & I have never had the impression he is bragging. He has never contradicted the statements of the people I know who have dealt with real violence, and I value his opinion.

Perhaps because all you have is a hammer, this is why everything looks like a nail.

195

eskrima is a good m.a. and the girls will learn to use a weapon first

196

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:

If you assume that because I’ve stated I’ve never been in a classic toe-to-toe “fight” with a man or been raped that I’ve never had to deal with a man who intended to do me bodily harm, you are incorrect. I have, and I’m sorry to say he was brutally successful. Though I train because I enjoy it immensely, the reason behind it is deadly serious. Any son-of-a-bitch who tries something like that on me again had better incapacitate me quickly.
[/quote]

Hello, Miss Parker.

In the US you are allowed to carry a gun.
I am curious:
Would you ever use a gun?

197

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Miss Parker wrote:

If you assume that because I’ve stated I’ve never been in a classic toe-to-toe “fight” with a man or been raped that I’ve never had to deal with a man who intended to do me bodily harm, you are incorrect. I have, and I’m sorry to say he was brutally successful. Though I train because I enjoy it immensely, the reason behind it is deadly serious. Any son-of-a-bitch who tries something like that on me again had better incapacitate me quickly.

Hello, Miss Parker.

In the US you are allowed to carry a gun.
I am curious:
Would you ever use a gun?

[/quote]

Yes. I have actually pulled a gun on a man who was trying to break into my house. There was a freaked out thought line running through my head as I was telling him to get the hell out of there. It went something like, “OH SHIT! CanIdothis?CanIdothis?CanIdothis?CanIdothis?”

I realized that I could indeed, and was enormously relieved when he took off & I didn’t have to.

198

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Miss Parker wrote:
Zecarlo, I know its shocking to consider kicking someone in the head when they’re on the ground. You could permanently damage or even kill them. And FI said earlier in the thread, I believe, that such tactics are not for simple barfights where someone has grabbed your girlfriend’s ass & now you & he are fighting.

But if I believed my life or the life of a loved one were on the line, I’d stomp someone’s head like an empty soda can.

In fact just last night in MMA we were doing an exercise where we were striking the focus mitts & when the coach yells ‘ground & pound’ we’d run to heavy bags laid out on the ground & mount them for non-stop strikes. Every time I ran to my bag I opened with a soccer kick to the head or multiple stomps to the head.

Be careful of getting in the habit of throwing punches from a mounted position if the goal is real world self defense. If your opponent moves their head, bridges, parries the strike (basically if you miss) and you hit the ground with your fist, bye bye fist, especially if you’re fighting on a hard surface (wood, tile, concrete, etc…). Same thing goes for elbows using the tip of the elbow. Palm strikes and forearm smashes on the other hand are much more durable weapons with less risk of injury.

Not saying that you can’t throw punches and elbows in some cases mind you, just to be aware of the potential dangers and the difference that terrain makes.[/quote]

good point!

also, i’ve read Mark Hatmaker talk about using “the rape choke” for GNP, soley to prevent the opponet from slipping the punch.

199

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
This is the stuff that you don’t see getting taught much, and is really where my instructor stands out. It’s how he makes his living and hence I don’t want to go giving away too much. Hopefully you understand.

Completely understand. I’m not asking you to give us your secrets. Nor do i want “moves”. Just if you could tell us the ideal places to bite someone and maybe somethings to watch out for (like how you should bite with the back of your teeth because they are less likely to be pulled out).
[/quote]

Ok, well again it depends on the purpose of the bite, your positional relationship to your attacker, and other factors (like is the possibility of blood born pathogens a concern).

The topic is really quite large due to the multitude of different uses of biting, the numerous positions that one might find themselves in, and other concerns.

So that’s why I gave the example of a “move” using a bite. It was meant to be an example of using biting to “anchor” oneself to one’s opponent (one of the many purposes for which biting can be used).

I guess what I’ll do is go list some of the purposes of biting and give one example for each. The system I train in is very method based, and hence the students are encouraged to conceptualize and experiment with the different methodologies. After all, when you are in a real fight you aren’t likely to have your instructor standing there yelling out to you what to do next.

So, some purposes of biting are:

-to maim- biting the eyebrow area is good for this purpose as not only will it bleed heavily, but the blood will pour down into the opponent’s eyes, both impairing their vision and psychologically weakening them

-to anchor- biting hold of the ear or chest area (anywhere is okay really, but the nipple area is especially sensitive) are good ways to prevent your opponent from creating space between you and themselves

-to cause a flinch response/weaken- biting the face (nose, cheek, ear, side of neck), upper abdomen (rib area, nipple area), and inner thigh/groin area are usually the places that are most easily accessible and cause the greatest response. Generally the response is that people will “go to the bite”.

In other words they’ll stop whatever they were trying to do and try to remove or cover against the bite. Also, growling while you bite will increase the effectiveness of this.

-to create space- generally biting the abdomen will have the greatest affect in this regard, but a bite will often cause people to try to create space regardless of where the bite is targeted (obviously the more sensitive the area, generally the more pronounced the attempt to create space though).

-to intimidate- the face is a really good target in this regard, especially the nose because not only is it the most pronounced structure on the face and thus very easily accessible, but it’s right in front of the opponent’s line of vision.

This would be where you’d say chomp down on someone’s nose and tell them in no uncertain terms “if you don’t stop fighting/trying to hurt/rape/rob/etc… me I’m going to eat your f***ing face off!” Most people will stop fighting you at that point, which gives you time to “stun and run” (do some damage to deter them from pursuing you as you flee the scene).

-to kill- the throat is really the only place where a bite has a chance of killing someone. This isn’t pretty stuff and it would have to be literally life or death to warrant such an action though. Either the carotid artery areas or trachea would be the obvious targets.

Some possible concerns might be:

-blood born pathogens/illness- in such a case it’s best to bite where there are clothes, as your opponent can still feel the bite, but generally you aren’t drawing blood

-having the opponent pull away and losing some teeth- again like I said above, unless you are anchored to the opponent in additional ways, it’s best to bite with the back teeth as they are less likely to be pulled out

Really though it’s best to understand the purposes of biting and take yourself through different positions and see where it might be possible to bite, how much of an affect it has on your training partner, try learning to incorporate biting with your other arsenals, and last but not least, having them do the same thing to you so you can figure out how to prevent someone else from using biting against you.

In other words, try to be more dynamic and not get too “boxed in” to thinking that you can only bite certain areas or in isolation from your other tools.

He has a number of DVD’s out as well. I own a few, but I’ll ask him if there is one in particular that he feels best displays or emphasizes the biting arsenal.

Also, I don’t know your financial situation or how flexible your work schedule is, but there is a 2 day intensive camp that he is teaching coming up in October in Massachussetts which I think you would really like if this is stuff that interests you. PM me if you want to know more (the offer goes for anyone who might be interested).

Good point.

200

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Miss Parker wrote:
Zecarlo, I know its shocking to consider kicking someone in the head when they’re on the ground. You could permanently damage or even kill them. And FI said earlier in the thread, I believe, that such tactics are not for simple barfights where someone has grabbed your girlfriend’s ass & now you & he are fighting.

But if I believed my life or the life of a loved one were on the line, I’d stomp someone’s head like an empty soda can.

In fact just last night in MMA we were doing an exercise where we were striking the focus mitts & when the coach yells ‘ground & pound’ we’d run to heavy bags laid out on the ground & mount them for non-stop strikes. Every time I ran to my bag I opened with a soccer kick to the head or multiple stomps to the head.

Be careful of getting in the habit of throwing punches from a mounted position if the goal is real world self defense. If your opponent moves their head, bridges, parries the strike (basically if you miss) and you hit the ground with your fist, bye bye fist, especially if you’re fighting on a hard surface (wood, tile, concrete, etc…). Same thing goes for elbows using the tip of the elbow. Palm strikes and forearm smashes on the other hand are much more durable weapons with less risk of injury.

Not saying that you can’t throw punches and elbows in some cases mind you, just to be aware of the potential dangers and the difference that terrain makes.

good point!

also, i’ve read Mark Hatmaker talk about using “the rape choke” for GNP, soley to prevent the opponet from slipping the punch.[/quote]

Haven’t got a chance to train with Mark yet, though he’s one of the iCAT instructors, so I’m sure I’ll get to one of these days.

Using a one hand choke to stabilize the head would solve the problem of slipping, but it still doesn’t solve the problem of them bridging (in which case you still run the risk of smashing your hand if you are punching with a closed fist) or the possibility of landing the punch on something hard (like their elbow if they are covering up).

Honestly I wouldn’t punch to the head unless maybe I had a half cobra and knee on stomach/chest position because in that situation they can’t bridge, I have control of their head and I only have to worry about 1 arm defending. Even then I’d probably rather use punches to the abdomen and palm smashes/forearms to the head.

201

i’ve been reading this thread and it seems to be quite the debate…

i thought i’d throw in my .02

firstly, i don’t think there’s ever going to be one system that will teach self-defense perfectly. you might live in an area that doesn’t offer anything other than sport taekwondo. or worse, you could have a great art (Krav Maga, SPEAR, etc) taught by a shitty teacher.

this has already been touched on, but the most important thing to teach is a sense of realism and situational awareness. but this has to be temper to prevent over confidnce or paranoia. i firmly believe that the most important thing after this is the physcial attributes of the fighter…strength, speed, power, size.

we all know why there are weight divisions, and why martial arts were developed (to counter all this). i would encourage a general level of physical fitness training, as well as MA training.

as far as the actual MA training…i think initally it would start primarily as basic self defense techniques. as the student develops skill, you can move on to more advanced techniques, and develop grappling, trapping/clinching, etc.

now the following is based off of what i’ve seen as a cop and soldier: some people will never, ever develop a killer mindset, not even for their own defense. and there are some people, who will always win, no matter the cost. that’s just how it is…

when it comes to crime, there are bascially two types-opportunistic/random (vandalism, low level mugging and thefts) and planned (bank robbery, home invasions).

the basic types of criminal are: professionals (who plan, and train and don’t want to get caught) and dipshits (who rob a store for $50 just to do 20 years, generally have substance abuse issues and mental health problems, don’t really care about doing time)…so there are bascially tow types of circumstances-the crime you can prevent and the crime you can’t.

you can prevent crimes agaisnt you by keeping the exterior of your home well light, secure your possessions, pay attention to your suroundings, spend time with people not involved in crime, etc.

you can’t stop an unstable meth/crach head from jumping you for $5 if you happen to be near him when he’s coming down. sometimes that’s just how it is, so self-defense is really only doing common-sense things, along with a “go to hell” plan.

i think most people could do a lot better to minimize crime/violence, but i don’t think anyone could reasonably think that they can ever eliminate it, or prevent themself from becoming a victim, if only once.

my advice-get the kids in an activity that they enjoy, makes them fit and might enhance their survivabality. hopefully they never have to test it’s validity…

202

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

You want to believe that rolling twice a week for an hour gives you more credence to talk about this shit, go to it. But if what you’re blabbering about conflicts with what I’ve actually seen happen, I’m going to fucking call you on it.

End of story.[/quote]

Very nice…so, is Renzo Gracie more qualified than you?

BTW, you can make assumptions about me, what I know, what I’ve dome or been through, if I’m a coward, all you like. Maybe you’ve been in more fights, maybe you haven’t, but if you base someone’s level of courage or fighting spirit on that you really know nothing.

And contrary to what you believe, your view of reality is based on YOUR reality. A bar is a bar, it is not the world. Maybe what works for you there, works well, God bless you. Maybe it won’t work under different circumstances. Maybe what you can make work someone else can’t. You bring up fighting as though you are in combat but when I mention that the Army uses BJJ as its base you say it has nothing to do with reality.

Really? I’m in the military so it does have something to do with reality, my reality. Don’t automatically assume you can transpose your reality onto everyone else’s. You live in NJ so you know what I say when I tell you I live in Newark. Am I going to tell people that what I see here is reality? Of course not, it’s the reality relative to here.

I’m not going to give someone advice to use in their daily life as though they live in the ghetto if they do not. And just to show that maybe I’m not as stupid as you think; I would be very wary of taking a fight to the ground here because it is normal for people to jump in and the punks tend to travel in packs. But in those cases I’m not going to go Bruce Lee either.

Having said that, being outnumbered isn’t always the case so I do whatever is best to survive. If I can beat the person standing that would be my first choice, if not, then it’s going to the ground.

Anyway, if Renzo posted here would you call him a dipshit who doesn’t have any concept of reality?

One more thing, it’s one thing to tell a woman in a rape situation to go for the eyes and whatever but it is entirely different to tell people that they should always fight “dirty” as not only morally but legally it can be wrong. I see very few people talking about levels of force and the legal and moral ramifications of what they advise people to do.

205

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

I could give two flying fucks what Renzo fucking Gracie thinks about self defense. I would not want to get into a cage and fight with him- granted. But for all I know he doesn’t know dick about what “self-defense” is. I don’t know and I don’t care. Get off his balls now.
[/quote]

Then why should anyone care about what you think? Everything you say about him can apply to you. If his street fighting experience, which is more verifiable than yours, is inconsequential then what does that say about yours? Either it, experience, is relevant or it’s not. If yours is, his is. If his isn’t than neither is yours.

Maybe you are just upset that there is someone that we know for fact knows more than you and has more experience to prove it and he does BJJ. Go ahead and think you are God on an internet forum but in reality you are not as much of an expert as you want everyone else to believe. It’s not an insult but a statement of fact.

Given the choice between making the short trip to NYC and Renzo’s school or learning from you, from the internet or even in person, I would hope any sane person would choose Renzo. I guess you’ll just have to learn to live with that, or not, it is the internet after all and you can be the champion of the NJ bar scene all you want…on the internet of course.

207

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
blabla [/quote]

How is anyone’s street fighting cred verifiable? Just cause Gracie says so? You do realize that they are trying to sell you something, right?

208

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
Yes. I have actually pulled a gun on a man who was trying to break into my house. There was a freaked out thought line running through my head as I was telling him to get the hell out of there. It went something like, “OH SHIT! CanIdothis?CanIdothis?CanIdothis?CanIdothis?”

I realized that I could indeed, and was enormously relieved when he took off & I didn’t have to.[/quote]

Good on you and thank you for sharing this. I find it interesting that one major factor in this discussion and it has been touched on is the mind set of a female. Not only are we the weaker ‘vessel’ being physically weaker than men but an unnecessary addition to that is that we are conditioned to be not only ‘nice’ but ‘sweet’, ‘delicate’, incapable in matters and /or tasks in the requisition and the acquisition of ‘force’ ( weight lifting/Olympic lifts, gun sports for instance ).

Also someone compared a man to a lion and a woman to a sheep - that implies submission, passivity, follower not leader, not in control of her own destiny, waiting to be slaughtered as it were.

I have had people say to me: “You lift weights like a man”…“You play tennis like a man”…“you hit like a man”…and just about any display of physical power I am accused of masculinity. What is expected of me? Lift the barbell as if it were a fork? Run like a ballerina?!? Not the right scenario in my opinion.

Strength is a neutral quality. So is power. Also COURAGE - a heavily associated quality with masculinity. The fact that women are discouraged to express these qualities and to CLAIM THEIR COURAGE as their human right contributes to the “victim mentality”.

I observed that you had to check with yourself that you had the capacity, the ability and the PERMISSION, the right to prevent someone from violating your boundaries which should be a natural instinctual response shows how castrated we are as females in our natural gut responses.
Gutsy women are often accused of being brutes, butch, tom boys, bitches, dragon ladies.

There is a girl in my martial arts class who feels Guilty about hitting. She recoils every single time the coach throws a blow at her- every single time. She has been doing this for years and still looks like a marshmallow when attacked.

You also mentioned ‘the relief’ you felt when you didn’t have to use the gun on the violator. Should we feel guilty about defending what is rightfully our right? Should we as women feel compassion 24/7 when the scales of justice clearly dictate vindication?

I am not talking about blind vengeance but there is a principle behind the law of an eye for an eye.

These are just things that are going through my mind as I read this thread.

My view is that the main battle for women is being fought on the psychological ground. We are taken down not because we are physically weaker but because we are psychological victims.

Gentleness and compliance are the qualities associated with femininity. That at the exchange and the expense of strength, prowess and courage is the basis of the victim mentality.

What do you think?

EDIT: As it is evident by this thread, men seem to have no problem expressing their fighting spirit. It is like RELENTLESS…lol. Imagine two or three women engaging in this behavior - what would we think of them?

; )

209

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
zecarlo wrote:
blabla

How is anyone’s street fighting cred verifiable? Just cause Gracie says so? You do realize that they are trying to sell you something, right?
[/quote]

Yeah, Renzo made it all up. Of course someone you can meet in person, talk to ,learn from and has numerous people to back up his claims is not real but someone posting on the internet is. I guess Helio Gracie is no more real than Santa Clause as well. Let’s just ignore he fact that long before they were trying to sell anything in America, before they were even in America, before the books, DVDs, UFC, etc., they were documented doing their thing in Brazil. Now, it’s all a marketing ploy based on lies. Anyone who denies that guys like Renzo and Relson and Ryan, not everyone in the family of course, had a reputation for street fighting is just reaching for those sour grapes.

211

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
zecarlo wrote:
legendaryblaze wrote:
zecarlo wrote:
blabla

How is anyone’s street fighting cred verifiable? Just cause Gracie says so? You do realize that they are trying to sell you something, right?

Yeah, Renzo made it all up. Of course someone you can meet in person, talk to ,learn from and has numerous people to back up his claims is not real but someone posting on the internet is. I guess Helio Gracie is no more real than Santa Clause as well. Let’s just ignore he fact that long before they were trying to sell anything in America, before they were even in America, before the books, DVDs, UFC, etc., they were documented doing their thing in Brazil. Now, it’s all a marketing ploy based on lies. Anyone who denies that guys like Renzo and Relson and Ryan, not everyone in the family of course, had a reputation for street fighting is just reaching for those sour grapes.

Once again, this is a strawman. I never said that they did or didn’t get into streetfights- I have no idea, and I don’t care.

“Fighting” is not “self-defense.” While they may be excellent fighters, I don’t know that they would know tactics like avoidance and awareness, de-escalation, escape and evasion, how to talk to the police, and all of the other facets of real self-defense.
[/quote]

Was I quoting you and responding to you?

Again, why should anyone care about you getting into fights? Why is it only valid in regard to you?