really focus on 3 exercises:
Deadlifts
t-bar rows
one arm dumbell rows(15-20 reps heavy)
weighted pullups, and chinups are excellent overall upper body exercises, but not particularly for the lats(more rear delts/biceps).However,if you are able to touch your chest to the bar with your palms facing away, that is a very good lat exercise.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
and the good thing about rack pulls, you cant cheat. i was off about an inch on my footing today and in the middle of the set i couldnt get another rep, like i wasnt even budging the weight. then i changed up a bit and it was nothing.[/quote]
The rack pull is inherently cheating, and I could still hitch a little with them. Try snatch grip deadlift, you’ll feel it in the lats. The wide grip forces you to use your lats more, and it forces you to start lower which forces a greater ROM. These are seriously one of the most overlooked back builders. I recommend using straps to get full benefit. Avoid the straps more for regular deadlift though where you move more weight.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i dont know, whatevers heavy for me. like 140-50ish for 8-12 on the pulldown.
deadlifts are the last of my problems lol. my back thickness isnt what im worried about its getting my width up.
no wonder
im assuming you’re over 190lbs
get up to 200lbs 3/5 x 12
This doesn’t happen often… but I agree with ZeusNathan here. Like we talked about in the “myths” thread to me strength gains coupled with the food to recover will be your best way to increase lats. If you take that pulldown from 150x8-10 to 300x8-12 your lats will have no choice but to grow. Learn to flare and force a deep stretch at the top and you’ll be even happier. [/quote]
go f yourself scott m. how u been btw? but the thing here goes back to the basic principle of, get strong, to get big.
with the weights he’s using, i doubt he can do more then 8 pull ups.
[quote]shizen wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
and the good thing about rack pulls, you cant cheat. i was off about an inch on my footing today and in the middle of the set i couldnt get another rep, like i wasnt even budging the weight. then i changed up a bit and it was nothing.
The rack pull is inherently cheating, and I could still hitch a little with them. Try snatch grip deadlift, you’ll feel it in the lats. The wide grip forces you to use your lats more, and it forces you to start lower which forces a greater ROM. These are seriously one of the most overlooked back builders. I recommend using straps to get full benefit. Avoid the straps more for regular deadlift though where you move more weight. [/quote]
the most ive EVER felt my lats was when i was supersetting lat pulldowns with conventional grip deadlifts. its then when i super fatigued my lats prior to deads that i noticed how much of it was used.
An observation, most guys I know who have good v tapers [regardless of thickness] do t-bar rows, go figure
I don’t really recommend pullups/pulldowns to behind neck but some people I know got good results from doing them. A good alternative that is less stressful to your shoulders imo is doing a semi supinated (neutral) grip pullup in between two parallel bars (ala Mr T in Rocky 3). You can use the power rack with two barbells to do this.
btw, I’m not over 190 but I’m barely 5’5 so I hope that’s ok 
Just keep in mind that deadlifting 500 ONCE doesn’t make your back huge at all… a set of 6-12 is more like it, and then it doesn’t have to be 500 at all.
450*10 makes your back plenty huge.
Also, the op asked for width, not thickness, and he already deadlifts.
So I’m saying it again: Rack Chins.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Just keep in mind that deadlifting 500 ONCE doesn’t make your back huge at all… a set of 6-12 is more like it, and then it doesn’t have to be 500 at all.
450*10 makes your back plenty huge.
Also, the op asked for width, not thickness, and he already deadlifts.
So I’m saying it again: Rack Chins.[/quote]
lol thank you for actually reading what i wrote. i feel like the rest of these guys are just robots who think deadlifting is the cure-all to all problems and didnt read a thing i wrote.
ill try out rack chins, probaly gonna get my ass thrown out the gym though.
[quote]shizen wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
and the good thing about rack pulls, you cant cheat. i was off about an inch on my footing today and in the middle of the set i couldnt get another rep, like i wasnt even budging the weight. then i changed up a bit and it was nothing.
The rack pull is inherently cheating, and I could still hitch a little with them. Try snatch grip deadlift, you’ll feel it in the lats. The wide grip forces you to use your lats more, and it forces you to start lower which forces a greater ROM. These are seriously one of the most overlooked back builders. I recommend using straps to get full benefit. Avoid the straps more for regular deadlift though where you move more weight. [/quote]
Snatch-grip DLs are brutal on the back. Might as well do these and add entire body mass instead of just the lats. The first time I ever tried to do them I tried doing the same weight as my conventional DL. . . bad idea.
Gironda Chin-Ups.
pullups
chinups
DB rows
BB rows with a regular BB (don’t have a t-bar) screw up my wrists so i can’t go heavy
Back thickness and width are what I pride myself on and I got what I have from the basics:
Weighted Chins
Weighted Wide-grip Pullups
Heavy Deadlifts
Romanian DLs (I feel my lats more on these than I do on heavy singles, doubles, or triples of conventional deads, mostly just from much longer time under tension)
Heavy 1 Arm DB Rows
I think a big issue a lot of people have with back training is they don’t really get that mind-muscle connection and tend to use their biceps too much and their back not enough.
I admit I was like that for a long time, once I started really focusing on contracting the proper muscles I noticed a huge difference. My biceps used to fatigue way before my back - that’s a big indicator of if you’re not using the right muscles.
[quote]josh86 wrote:
I think a big issue a lot of people have with back training is they don’t really get that mind-muscle connection and tend to use their biceps too much and their back not enough.
[/quote]
This is why when I do seated cable rows, I prefer to use the rope attachment instead of any bar/handle. I get to define the angle of the pull and can really tailor the tension to my body structure.
Now…
For rack chins, does it matter that much if I can only get a flat bench to put my feet on, versus the leg attachment of a decline bench?
Not sure if I could pull off sliding a decline bench into the squat rack at my gym.
Also, what about “fat man pull ups” done on a Smith machine instead of Rack Chins? Or would you say one is better for width?
Thanks.
No one mentioned Straight-Arm Pull downs? Different from regular pull downs, these things rape my lats.
okay, I didn’t read anyone else’s comments, but figured I’d chime in anyway (I’m as ass, what can I say -lol).
While I’ve always loved rows, and deads, and focused more on them than anything else, a lot of people who talk about how great chins are for your v-taper seem to have naturally small waists. I always had a blocky looking build, probably from years of powerlifting training, squatting and DLing tons of weight.
What I feel really helped bring out my lats is doing chins with a V-Grip handle (the one usually attached to the cable stack). I eliminate the top portion to keep my biceps from activating too much, and focus on continuous tension on the lats.
AT the bottom of the movement, you will feel the stretch all the way down to your lower lat insertions (ow!). I have yet to show this to anyone and not have them express awe at how great a burn they get in the lower outter region.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
a lot of people who talk about how great chins are for your v-taper seem to have naturally small waists. [/quote]
I’ve never even considered this. Interestingly enough, now that I think about it, people that love chins (that I know personally, even myself) for their V taper seem to have small waist. Good observation.
Stu,
What would be the difference then between holding the negative, stretching portion of a close-grip chin movement, versus doing the same with the V-Grip handle?
Feels the same to me, personally.
And when you say you hold a stretch, is it enough to hang with your toes barely touching the ground, so you can vary the tension?
I don’t think I could hang too long with my full body weight.
[quote]Chaosnyli wrote:
No one mentioned Straight-Arm Pull downs? Different from regular pull downs, these things rape my lats.
[/quote]
Straight arm pull downs definitely isolate the lats. The problem with them is that they don’t allow much in the way of potential for weight progression.
Micheal Patrella mentioned nautilus pull-overs, which are a much better isolation exercise for the lats IMO. The problem is that they aren’t all that easy to come by.
I came up with a way to mimic them, which I call “strap pull-overs” by using a pair of “ab originals”. Just hook the straps onto a lat-pulldown machine, feed your arms throug the straps like you’re going to do hanging leg raises, sit down, and pull your elbows down to your sides (and even slightly back).
Viola, a lat exercise that completely removes the arm flexors (for anyone who feels chins primarily in their arms or is looking to isolate the lats), isolates the lats, and has a much better potential for weight increase than straight arm pull-downs.
As far as results, I can’t conclusively say that they’ll build huge lats, as I only came up with the idea a couple months ago. But I will say that I definitely feel them in my lats, and they are a much better alternative than straight arm pull-downs if one wants to isolate the lats while still being able to move some weight.
Sento are you sitting facing away or towards the machine?
I’m pretty newb so i’ll rather relay information from someone who knows what they’re talking about. Poliquin advocates Sternum Chinups. Basically you lean back in the last half of the motion and row yourself up.
I’ve only done a couple to see how they felt and I found that they are far more advanced than regular chins. You’d need a decent base of strength to do it for appreciable reps I’d imagine. Just a suggestion I didn’t see anybody mention.