well id say it depends on the person body im 15 and bench 305 on good days and i dont take roids itd be stupid but yea id say bout 225-300 for average guys i guess
[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Tim K wrote:
With work and effort, a natural lifter should be able to hit twice their BW raw. It might take a couple years of dedicated lifting, but is doable.
That is an absurd statement. Very few natural lifters will ever hit a 2x bw raw bench with their butt on the seat. [/quote]
There you’re wrong. I’ve done it and I personally know a total of 8 other folks that have done it without even having to really think about it, and I live in a small town.
Since I’ve been lifting a 2X BW bench has always been the standard goal.
I really think all you naysayers should just stop lifting now. You’ve already convinced yourself of what you cannot accomplish. To put it bluntly, you’re pussing out, making excuses, and failing to achieve. Seems to be the new generations theme…
[quote]Tim K wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Tim K wrote:
With work and effort, a natural lifter should be able to hit twice their BW raw. It might take a couple years of dedicated lifting, but is doable.
That is an absurd statement. Very few natural lifters will ever hit a 2x bw raw bench with their butt on the seat.
There you’re wrong. I’ve done it and I personally know a total of 8 other folks that have done it without even having to really think about it, and I live in a small town.
Since I’ve been lifting a 2X BW bench has always been the standard goal.
I really think all you naysayers should just stop lifting now. You’ve already convinced yourself of what you cannot accomplish. To put it bluntly, you’re pussing out, making excuses, and failing to achieve. Seems to be the new generations theme… [/quote]
back in my day we didn’t wear shoes while we worked out. And if we didn’t hit a double bodyweight bench, mom wouldn’t let us eat.
all those lifts you quoted were raw and not chemically enhanced? If they weren’t, then you are one strong guy, but alot of people will never be able to obtain that. chill out, not everyone is a powerlifting superman.
I believe that 2x bwt bench raw and natural is within reach of most people if they choose to specialize for a while. I benched 250 raw and natural @ 148# in competition years ago and I’m not a “benchpresser”. I’m 170# now, but don’t think I’ll be hitting 340# for a while (haven’t been working out like I should). I’ve done 3x bwt in squat & deadlift in competition but those were with suit and wraps (still natural).
I’ve never quite understood the infatuation with the 1rm benchpress anyway as it is probably responsible for more injuries than any other exercise in existence. Seeing someone do reps with 2x bwt in the squat or dl or weighted dips is more impressive to me.
[quote]Tim K wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Tim K wrote:
With work and effort, a natural lifter should be able to hit twice their BW raw. It might take a couple years of dedicated lifting, but is doable.
That is an absurd statement. Very few natural lifters will ever hit a 2x bw raw bench with their butt on the seat.
There you’re wrong. I’ve done it and I personally know a total of 8 other folks that have done it without even having to really think about it, and I live in a small town.
Since I’ve been lifting a 2X BW bench has always been the standard goal.
I really think all you naysayers should just stop lifting now. You’ve already convinced yourself of what you cannot accomplish. To put it bluntly, you’re pussing out, making excuses, and failing to achieve. Seems to be the new generations theme… [/quote]
I started this thread mainly to see what others think about the subject and to see if their obervations mirror my own.
I took advantage of the internet to poll people about this all over the world. I wouldn’t automatically assume that everyone had the same experiences that I had.
Why would you, admittedly being from a small town assume that because you know a few people who can bench twice bodyweight that everyone else can?
I have been powerlifting/working out for many years and still can’t do twice bodyweight. I am just zoning in on 1.5 times bodyweight which for me is a big milestone.
Benching never comes easy for me, especially as I have long arms and am more built to pull than press.
From the responses thus generated I think that my observations are pretty typical, except for I seem to have more experience with juicers than some others.
BTW: Around here a “hardcore” gym is a slang for a gym that is full of guys doing steroids. There is one in Delaware that is supposedly so bad that the rumour is that they pay off the police to stay in business. Lots of big benches there too.
Having been training for over 15 years and been in many gyms, I would say the average bench is around 225lbs. I think it’s the average because most people think that 225 is some majical #. It seems that many get there and then can’t mentally get passed it. Also, I think that most people can eventually bench 225 using almost any training routine and technique. The key to really putting up big #'s is technique. Most people either aren’t smart enough or dedicated enough to learn proper technique.
For many years, I was stuck at 315lbs. Once I started Westside training my bench shot up. I can hit a touch and go with 565 and a 495- two second pause with wrist wraps and a belt at a bodyweight of 280. I have tried to
help others get their bench up but I would say that 99% of the population just keeps doing the same old shit that doesn’t work.
My two cents…
Meat
This is one of my biggest pet peaves, so please bear with this rant.
People are such a bunch of pussies. Most guys at my gym would be stapled to the bench with 205 and they think 225 is a “good bench”. I saw some guys doing some kind of lock out work with 225 with about 1" ROM and thought it was heavy.
People need to realize how strong they could be if they quit screwing around. Any male that isn’t alot smaller then average should be able to hit 315 pretty easily. If you’re a big fat body like me, you have no excuse for not hitting 315.
I see so many guys who don’t understand their lack of progress, when they couldn’t total 900 pounds if their lives depended on it. I’ve seen some strong guys that weren’t very built, but I’ve never seen a really built guy that didn’t have passable levels of strength.
I think we can all agree that 99% of people should be able to bench a shit ton more then they are.
And for the record I don’t even like bench pressing and I can get 315.
Rant over, thanks guys.
Seriously? That’s it??
Damn…
It’s not humanly possible for a natural 2bw bench 2.5bw squat and 3bw deadlift??
(Either way, I shall try)
hmmm average bench?
Ironically a lot of the gym rats at my la fitness don’t do benchpress.
I’d say of all the people i have seen in the last 9~ months, only less thna 4 have benched 315+, including me (big guy, and only till recently. You guys talk about 2xbw!!! i was glad to reach 1x lol).
The majority of people who bench i noticed at my gym are very small, under 190 I’d guess. Maybe 200-230 max?
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
OK, let’s get some common sense into this debate about bench press standards. For those of you are interested, raw powerlifting standards are to be found here:
http://www.rawpowerlifting.com/pdf/RAWClassificationStandards.pdf
I note that in the 198 class, for example, the Elite standard is 1471lb. I reckon that this would equate to about a 370 bench, 485 squat and 620 deadlift, give or take a bit for each lift. So according to these standards, even an elite lifter in competition is not lifting double bodyweight raw, although the standard is fairly close. So it is hardly surprising that it is rare to see this done in the average gym.
Good post, but keep in mind that there is still a limited pool of participants in raw competitions. Also, I don’t necessarily agree on the breakdown you gave. I would expect to hit 1471 with lifts more like a 530 squat, 520 deadlift and 420 bench. Again, there is a lot of variability, and I currently squat a little more than I pull. I think these numbers are achievable.
[/quote]
Hmm. The limited pool of participants shouldn’t have much influence on the standards, only on the number of people who reach them. On the numbers you quote, I would say these are more appropriate to someone relatively short, with short arms. The archetypal 200lb six footer TimK is talking about wouldn’t have these ratios. BTW, I notice on your other post your slow but steady progress on the bench. Congrats, you are a great example of what can be achieved with persistence. (The small hands probably are limiting your DL too).
I doubt if I am ever going anywhere near 2xBW in the bench, but then I didn’t start lifting until I was over 50. Shoulder problems don’t help either. A big bench just doesn’t feature in my goals.
[quote]Tim K wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Tim K wrote:
With work and effort, a natural lifter should be able to hit twice their BW raw. It might take a couple years of dedicated lifting, but is doable.
That is an absurd statement. Very few natural lifters will ever hit a 2x bw raw bench with their butt on the seat.
There you’re wrong. I’ve done it and I personally know a total of 8 other folks that have done it without even having to really think about it, and I live in a small town.
Since I’ve been lifting a 2X BW bench has always been the standard goal.
I really think all you naysayers should just stop lifting now. You’ve already convinced yourself of what you cannot accomplish. To put it bluntly, you’re pussing out, making excuses, and failing to achieve. Seems to be the new generations theme… [/quote]
I obviously offened you, and that is not my intent. But, if you start telling people that nearly everyone should be able to hit a 2xbw bp, you are setting people up for failure. Very few people who will do this. And, if you insult them for failing to do it, you are just making yourself sound like a jerk. Dont be that guy in the gym.
I think everyone here will agree, that when you are talking about getting up to a 2xbw bp, you are taking yourself mentally and physically to a level that most people are unable to go. It is not easy, and few people get there.
I personally came within 5 pounds of a 2x bp. Does that mean I pussed out? Perhaps you can honestly answer yes. I sure hope not though. I think we can put on a better example than that in the gym.
FYI - I don not work out in a hardcore powerlifting gym. I work out in a normal gym with lots of good, normal people. I also do not practice powerlifting. I practice bodybuilding, so my form is conducive to building muscle, and not pushing weight. I am not likely to change my aesthetic goals.
[quote]Viking69 wrote:
Everyone naturally, with hard work, can bench 100-150+lbs over their bodyweight. [/quote]
When I was in my 20’s I benched 360 @ 195 lbs now almost 53 I still do 285. So you are correct in those numbers 
[quote]Tim K wrote:
I should clarify an important point that I’ve missed. With the advent of shirts, suits, etc., I’ve probably overstated my idea of raw. In all the lifts I’ve mentioned, a belt is worn. No shirts, wrist wraps, elbow wraps, etc. though. Sorry for the mistake.
[/quote]
What is the logic for disallowing wrist wraps, but allowing belts? I can understand all the others (shirts, elbow wraps, knee wraps etc all cover the joint of one of the prime movers and help it return to extension) but the wrist wrap is doing the same thing as teh belt: providing stability.
wrist wraps make it easier to perform the lift by not allowing your wrist to bend
It seems a lot people keep missing out the entire, “With hard work and effort…”
Yes, I still firmly believe most people can achieve a 2xBW bench if they are willing to put in the hours at the gym. And yes, that is natural. The problem is, when things start to become difficult, most people quit.
That theme seems to becoming more and more common too.
To make matters worse, people start to whine that anyone that gets a 2xBW lift is on steriods! Hell, when I hit my first competition double BW bench I didn’t even know what steriods were! I thought Arnold achieved his look via diet and hard work.
Missing a double BW by 5 lbs? When you’re that close it becomes a moot point. When did you weigh yourself? In the morning or night? LOL
Yeah, my posts contain a bit anger in them. It pisses me off when people continually sell themselves short. Instead of shooting for the top they settle for the middle. People are terrified to seriously challenge themselves. Instead, they lower the bar and then applaud themself when they touch it.
Hmmm… I guess that’s why they’ll always be average. 
Maybe everyone is happy with only doing the minimum. Too bad Mr. Average will never realize his potential because he is too shortsighted to even see it.
I’m not the only guy here that recognizes that a 2xBW lift is in the reach of almost anyone that puts in the effort to get it.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Tim K wrote:
I should clarify an important point that I’ve missed. With the advent of shirts, suits, etc., I’ve probably overstated my idea of raw. In all the lifts I’ve mentioned, a belt is worn. No shirts, wrist wraps, elbow wraps, etc. though. Sorry for the mistake.
What is the logic for disallowing wrist wraps, but allowing belts? I can understand all the others (shirts, elbow wraps, knee wraps etc all cover the joint of one of the prime movers and help it return to extension) but the wrist wrap is doing the same thing as teh belt: providing stability.[/quote]
No logic at all… just never used wrist wraps. I don’t see a problem with them one way or another. Guess they slipped my mind.
[quote]Tim K wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Tim K wrote:
I should clarify an important point that I’ve missed. With the advent of shirts, suits, etc., I’ve probably overstated my idea of raw. In all the lifts I’ve mentioned, a belt is worn. No shirts, wrist wraps, elbow wraps, etc. though. Sorry for the mistake.
What is the logic for disallowing wrist wraps, but allowing belts? I can understand all the others (shirts, elbow wraps, knee wraps etc all cover the joint of one of the prime movers and help it return to extension) but the wrist wrap is doing the same thing as teh belt: providing stability.
No logic at all… just never used wrist wraps. I don’t see a problem with them one way or another. Guess they slipped my mind.[/quote]
oh, ok, gotcha
[quote]terribleivan wrote:
I obviously offened you, and that is not my intent. But, if you start telling people that nearly everyone should be able to hit a 2xbw bp, you are setting people up for failure. Very few people who will do this. And, if you insult them for failing to do it, you are just making yourself sound like a jerk. Dont be that guy in the gym.
I think everyone here will agree, that when you are talking about getting up to a 2xbw bp, you are taking yourself mentally and physically to a level that most people are unable to go. It is not easy, and few people get there.
I personally came within 5 pounds of a 2x bp. Does that mean I pussed out? Perhaps you can honestly answer yes. I sure hope not though. I think we can put on a better example than that in the gym.
FYI - I don not work out in a hardcore powerlifting gym. I work out in a normal gym with lots of good, normal people. I also do not practice powerlifting. I practice bodybuilding, so my form is conducive to building muscle, and not pushing weight. I am not likely to change my aesthetic goals.[/quote]
I think a double bw bp is possible for most people provided that they train for it. As you said, you aren’t training for it. Thats why you can’t do it. I think that if you are motivated enough you can achieve a 2xbwbp. I’m currently trying to close in on it and I’m making progress both ways. I’m losing wieght and increasing my bp. When I hit the mark I’ll let ya know.
[quote]Tim K wrote:
With work and effort, a natural lifter should be able to hit twice their BW raw. It might take a couple years of dedicated lifting, but is doable. Problem is, most people don’t want to do the heavy lifting it takes to reach difficult goals.
Once things start to get hard, they quit.
Almost anyone with 9 months under their belts should be able to bench BW +80~100 lbs. A lot people claim 9 months when in reality they’ve been playing around in the gym of and on for 9 months. Nothing consistent - no effort, no intensity = no gains.[/quote]
There are also a lot of people who work intensely and make progress but don’t bench 100 lbs over their BW in under a year simply because the bench is not a primary lift of theirs.
[quote]People are terrified to seriously challenge themselves. Instead, they lower the bar and then applaud themself when they touch it.
[/quote]
One of the most well-put statements I have ever read on this forum. I couldn’t agree more.