Bench Press Baseline?

Training Powerlifting
21

I rarely train at my college gym, but when I’m there I notice two things:

  1. Poor training
  2. Few Squat

I’d pin point that the average bench 1 RPM at 205 regardless of bodyweight. I personally know about 10 guys (in a school of 10K) that bench over 315.

At my regular gym (a natural basement crew) we have a 198er at 405 raw, a 242er at 450 raw, and myself at 220 with a 365 raw. I’ll leave the shirted #s out of discussion.

One of the 198s friends started coming and was an average guy at 165 benching 185. Now he’s at 178 benching 220 only 3.5 months later, and missing 1/3 of our workouts. Its forseeable that by yrs end he’ll hit 275 at 180 with technique improvement and more squatting.

The average Joe has the potential to go 100# over BW, but cannot because of poor technique, training methods, and diet.

The fact that most people ‘train for looks so they dont care about strength’ boggles my mind. Personally, the stronger I’ve become the bigger I’ve become.

When Im asked how to get bigger or stronger by my peers I just refer them to westside principles and squatting.

Noone wants to work and everyone wants results. Thats also why the average gym going Joe is putting up so little.

22

I work out at school (sigh) with no squat racks or even benches (that you can get weight out of) so unfortunately I can only tell you machine or smith machine maxes.

The majority of people are under a plate a side(on a machine.) That’s my age or thereabouts (15) most of the older people who go are quite serious by now (in terms of consistency and intensity) so I suppose 200lbs is the max for a hard worker in the gym then.

I can do 85kg (not sure what that is in pounds, I think it’s near 200lbs, the older kids do 90kg.) So I appear strong for my gym but that’s because there are about 4-5 serious people and a load of shapers and toners. Sigh…in a boys school

23

[quote]Tim K wrote:
With work and effort, a natural lifter should be able to hit twice their BW raw. It might take a couple years of dedicated lifting, but is doable. Problem is, most people don’t want to do the heavy lifting it takes to reach difficult goals.

Once things start to get hard, they quit.

Almost anyone with 9 months under their belts should be able to bench BW +80~100 lbs. A lot people claim 9 months when in reality they’ve been playing around in the gym of and on for 9 months. Nothing consistent - no effort, no intensity = no gains.[/quote]

I would agree that a good natural goal would be to bench double BW or BW+200 pounds, whichever is less.

As for 9 months of training to be BW+100, I think that many people will have to work hard and smart longer than that.

For sure, you should hit BW within the first year.

BW+50 by the end of the second.

BW+100 by the end of the third.

ANYONE who is not disabled should
eventually be able to do BW+100.

Just keep in mind that back in the time just before Paul Anderson, the world records in the PLs were about 650 squat, 350 bench and 700 deadlift. Then Hepburn hit 500 in the bench (although his grip was more than 32 inches.)

This is just playing it safe a little on the time frames.

BW+200 or double BW for a well built and devoted trainer can be achieved naturally.

As for the time frames, I played around and got my bench to 170 which was BW in a couple years of fooling around with weights. I think I could have hit that in 1 year-starting at age 18.

I went from 170 to 275 with a pause in what amounted to about 9 months of training. I weighted 180 at the time, and I got 285 at 183 (+100) within a year of good training after the intial 170 BW bench.

It took me 4 more years to hit BW +150, 355 at 205, and this was very consistent training. Maybe I could have done it in 3 with a little more focus, and less overtraining.

So I’d say, 5 years should get you to BW+150 if you train right. From there, BW+200 may be your ultimate lifetime lifting achievement.

As for averages, the average T-Nation responder listed a 286 bench at about 200 pounds BW a while back.

I have seen “studies” and the average adult male between 20-30 supposedly benches 180, which is a little suprising to me-I thought it would be lower.

The number of high school kids repping with 185 these days is much more than when I was in highschool.

The best I have seen is 315 x 12 by an 18 year old state champion wrestler who weighed about 285 and I am almost certain was drug free.

At my brother’s highschool, there was a steroid user who did 335 at 180.

We had a 275 pound guy do 435 with a shirt from the HS where I teach, but he did only 345 raw, and he did not bench like a powerlifter-it was elbows way out to the sides and with a closer grip than I use at 5-8 and he was 6-4.

There was an article in one of the muscle magazines over 10 years ago which listed a strength scale from before 1950. It listed the following:

Bench
Good-BW+50
Excellent-BW+100
World class-BW+200

Squat
Good-BW+100
Excellent-BW+200
World class-BW+300

Deadlift
Good-BW+100
Excellent-BW+200
World class-BW+500

I don’t totally agree with it. Squat should be up at least 100 pounds in each category, and deadlift should probably be more like 200, 300, 450.

24

As bad as you guys may think their[average gym-goer] bench press efforts are, they pale in comparison to the crap most of these guys consider a squat(let alone the fact that I’ve only seen 4 other guys in my gym deadlift.)

I lift in a university gym with other students, and I’d say the average lifter’s max is lower than 225…I don’t see the big deal with it though, the only person you’re really competing with is yourself.

I don’t like to see the half squats, or knee-bends a lot of these jokers are trying to pass of as squats. Really irritating to see them load up, kind of bend over a little bit and then rack the bar like they just completed an amazing lift. One guy actually came up and told me I would be able to lift more if I didn’t go down so far. I was like,“No shit? I better try that some time.”

25

[quote]binford wrote:
I wouldn’t agree that with hard work everybody can reach a double BW raw bench. That just isn’t true. I mean i’m sure you guys have seen alot of people weigh in the 230-250 range. This would mean with hard work they could bench 460-500?? Yeah right, not clean. If you get to a 500 bench you are approaching world class.
[/quote]

With a lot of hard work, including training yourself to a solid bodyfat%. A lean 250 pound guy should be able to challenge a 500 pound bench in his lifetime.

26

[quote]ballbuster wrote:
I read somewhere that in all the population that only about 5 % can bench their bodyweight. I have a lifting pardner that can do reps with 350, without a pause, I know a guy 25 years old, no juice, did 405 for 10 reps. But these guys are special, but most guys can bench without a shirt,at my gym, can lift maybe 5-10% above their bw.[/quote]

This has to be old data, or include the aged, and infants.

27

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
ballbuster wrote:
I read somewhere that in all the population that only about 5 % can bench their bodyweight. I have a lifting pardner that can do reps with 350, without a pause, I know a guy 25 years old, no juice, did 405 for 10 reps. But these guys are special, but most guys can bench without a shirt,at my gym, can lift maybe 5-10% above their bw.

This has to be old data, or include the aged, and infants. [/quote]

I don’t know, I don’t doubt it…think of the average untrained individual when they first step into a gym, 135 is usually near their max. Not too many people actually lift weights these days as it is…I’d say maybe 20% of the population, max.

28

I guess people these days must be exceedingly weak, fat, and/or lazy. I can’t believe it takes folks so darned long to achieve a BW press and/or a BW press +100 lbs. C’mon… shut your whining and move the weights!

When you are first lifting, making strength gains is easy. Its as simple as putting some plates on the end of the bar every week. It took me 2 years of work to reach a double BW competition benchpress RAW.

Hell, back in the mid-1980’s we must have all been complete freaks of nature!

Benching double your BW is something any natural lifter can achieve with hard work. If you’re a fat ass, lose some flab, add some muscle, and look at what a double BW benchpress is. The key is you have to WORK HARD.

It ain’t easy. If it were, everyone would be doing it. However, if you put in the time and effort you can do it. It isn’t some lofty, pie-in-the-sky goal. It just takes work.

Anyone that can’t do 10 reps at their own bodyweight is pathetic. Sure, we all have to start somewhere… but it doesn’t take much work at all to achieve a 10 rep BW press.

29

You are absolutely right. The previous post about “hard work” and getting a double BW bench is incorrect.

[quote]binford wrote:
I wouldn’t agree that with hard work everybody can reach a double BW raw bench. That just isn’t true. I mean i’m sure you guys have seen alot of people weigh in the 230-250 range. This would mean with hard work they could bench 460-500?? Yeah right, not clean. If you get to a 500 bench you are approaching world class.

If you can bench double your bodyweight thats pretty amazing. Definately national level. I gurantee you most of you guys dont know anyone who can bench double bodyweight who are clean. I’m a powerlifter/strongman and i dont know anyone who benches double their bodyweight raw and i know guys that bench 700 plus pounds in a shirt, which is definately world class.

So there is alot to be said for a double bodyweight raw bench.[/quote]

30

This is just not true…Bill Carpenter who is one of the strongest raw benchers I have seen benches in the low 500’s at a BW of 242lbs. That is amazing. I have been in the PL game for quite awhile, and have trained with quite a few world class benchers, and double BW or more raw is no easy feat.

Now if you consider raising your ass off the bench or bouncing the weight off your chest a good bench then the number of double BW benchers rises.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
binford wrote:
I wouldn’t agree that with hard work everybody can reach a double BW raw bench. That just isn’t true. I mean i’m sure you guys have seen alot of people weigh in the 230-250 range. This would mean with hard work they could bench 460-500?? Yeah right, not clean. If you get to a 500 bench you are approaching world class.

With a lot of hard work, including training yourself to a solid bodyfat%. A lean 250 pound guy should be able to challenge a 500 pound bench in his lifetime.[/quote]

31

[quote]JRR641 wrote:
You are absolutely right. The previous post about “hard work” and getting a double BW bench is incorrect.

binford wrote:
I wouldn’t agree that with hard work everybody can reach a double BW raw bench. That just isn’t true. I mean i’m sure you guys have seen alot of people weigh in the 230-250 range. This would mean with hard work they could bench 460-500?? Yeah right, not clean. If you get to a 500 bench you are approaching world class.

If you can bench double your bodyweight thats pretty amazing. Definately national level. I gurantee you most of you guys dont know anyone who can bench double bodyweight who are clean. I’m a powerlifter/strongman and i dont know anyone who benches double their bodyweight raw and i know guys that bench 700 plus pounds in a shirt, which is definately world class.

So there is alot to be said for a double bodyweight raw bench.
[/quote]

I could probably count on one hand the number of people I have seen with a double bodywieght bench, and i’ve been to alot of gyms since i started working out. You have your average joe pressing around 200lbs i’d say, give or take a few. Not even alot of people can do 225.

We have all seen a certain few that can do it with the help of certain “supplements”, but even then you dont see it everyday. To say any lifter can hit double bodyweight in a year is a pretty generous statement. I’m not counting the guys doing the bounce and breaking their backs on the bench shirted up so they look like gorillas either.

32

The double BW/BW + X hundred pounds thing is quite misleading. It will always be to the advantage of smaller people to talk about relative lifts. The + X hundred pound thing is a bit better, but I’ve seen many more 200lb guys bench 300 than 300lb guys bench 400 (even on a percentage basis, as there are fewer 300lb guys than 200lb guys).

Height is a huge problem here. Take a lifter at 6’2" and 240lbs. He has a 30.8 BMI. Now take a 5’6" lifter at 240lbs. He has a 38.7 BMI. That is like the 6’2" guy having the build of being a hair over 300lbs. Which one of these guys at 240 is going to have the bigger bench? Should be pretty easy to figure out.

There is also a discussion of size and relative strength in Siff’s Supertraining.

33

for commercial gyms that I’ve seen
average: about 80kg
Good: two blue plates (100kg)
Extremely rare: 3 blue plates ( 140kg )

34

I’ll agree that a double BW bench is not an easy feat. It isn’t supposed to be. But I will stick with my assertion that if you train, and train hard, you can do it. My first PL comp was 20 years ago (and I did a double BW bench with 2 years of training). Back then, a competition bench was this: After the lift-off you had to demonstrate control of the bar before the judges would allow you lower the bar. Most times, this is just a hesitation after you get the lift off to show you aren’t shaking like a leaf. You must control the bar down to your chest and pause. After the pause, the judge gives you the command to lift. Your feet must stay FLAT on the floor, your ass on the bench (all of your ass, not just some minute bit of ass flesh) and your shoulders must maintain contact with the bench. Within these guidelines you can arch all you like. At the top of the press you must again demonstrate control before the judge tells you to rack it.

I haven’t seen too many natural folks over 220 lbs that didn’t look like they were carrying some excess bodyfat around with them. For every pound of excess fat you lose, you drop 2 lbs of the double BW bench. Pretty easy math.

Stay lean, work like hell, and you too can do a double BW bench (‘cept maybe that 6’ 2" guy, but then he needs to come in at 250 lbs lean. 500 lbs ain’t out of reach).

It really sounds like people want an excuse not to achieve a goal. They want a reason not to excel. They want a reason not to work as hard as they possibly can. There is no reason why a guy standing at 6’ and weighing a solid 200 lbs can’t put up 400 lbs.

I’ve seen a couple 250 lbs put up 500 lbs and this was 18 years ago!

Hell, all we have out here is a little country gym and damned near all the boys there rep with 315 lbs. You guys really need to start hitting real gyms or get out of the city… either that or city boys are pussified metro-sexuals.

35

OK, let’s get some common sense into this debate about bench press standards. For those of you are interested, raw powerlifting standards are to be found here:
http://www.rawpowerlifting.com/pdf/RAWClassificationStandards.pdf

I note that in the 198 class, for example, the Elite standard is 1471lb. I reckon that this would equate to about a 370 bench, 485 squat and 620 deadlift, give or take a bit for each lift. So according to these standards, even an elite lifter in competition is not lifting double bodyweight raw, although the standard is fairly close. So it is hardly surprising that it is rare to see this done in the average gym.

36

[quote]JRR641 wrote:
This is just not true…Bill Carpenter who is one of the strongest raw benchers I have seen benches in the low 500’s at a BW of 242lbs. That is amazing. I have been in the PL game for quite awhile, and have trained with quite a few world class benchers, and double BW or more raw is no easy feat.

Now if you consider raising your ass off the bench or bouncing the weight off your chest a good bench then the number of double BW benchers rises.
[/quote]

OK, I’d probably go back to my double BW OR BW+200 (whichever is less) guideline. And keep in mind, I’m talking about a lifetime achievement.

I will not pretend to lack some genetic ability, but I am mostly a leg man. My wrists are 6 1/2 inches spot on, which is very small, and I only maxed 155 in highschool and 170 by the age of 20, and 225 after a bench intensive program at the age of 27. At one point when I was 20, I believed that I could not handle 185 pounds ever-probably because I dropped it on my chest and throat when my spotter let go.

I will do double BW in the near future-2 years at the outside. I probably could get 370 with a little taper, and could probably get down into the 180’s in a couple months without losing it (cause I’m fat). I would use a pause, a legal arch, and no sleeves, although I prefer to use wrist wraps and a belt. The only thing I’m not so sure about is if I could do it without a false grip, cause my wrists and hands are just small (I can’t physically get my hand into a thumblock grip for deadlifting if I wanted to). The false grip helps by putting all of my thumb muscles under the bar to help support the hand.

I train totally alone in my home power rack. I have had a few lifters tell me that when I get away from the false grip, it will actually help me with the lockout.

37

[quote]sharetrader wrote:
OK, let’s get some common sense into this debate about bench press standards. For those of you are interested, raw powerlifting standards are to be found here:
http://www.rawpowerlifting.com/pdf/RAWClassificationStandards.pdf

I note that in the 198 class, for example, the Elite standard is 1471lb. I reckon that this would equate to about a 370 bench, 485 squat and 620 deadlift, give or take a bit for each lift. So according to these standards, even an elite lifter in competition is not lifting double bodyweight raw, although the standard is fairly close. So it is hardly surprising that it is rare to see this done in the average gym.[/quote]

Good post, but keep in mind that there is still a limited pool of participants in raw competitions. Also, I don’t necessarily agree on the breakdown you gave. I would expect to hit 1471 with lifts more like a 530 squat, 520 deadlift and 420 bench. Again, there is a lot of variability, and I currently squat a little more than I pull. I think these numbers are achievable.

38

I should clarify an important point that I’ve missed. With the advent of shirts, suits, etc., I’ve probably overstated my idea of raw. In all the lifts I’ve mentioned, a belt is worn. No shirts, wrist wraps, elbow wraps, etc. though. Sorry for the mistake.

39

I don’t see why so many of you think a 2x-Bwt benchpress (no gear) is that odd or extraordinary. Sure, if you go to Bally’s, California Fitness, or even Worlds, this will be a feat seldom seen. However, for those of us training in real hardcore PL gyms, this is commonplace. Since I started competing, I’ve had a double bodyweight bench through every weight class I’ve gone through…340 at 165, 400 at 181, 430+ at 198. I’ve always thought of this to be the standard of an accomplished bencher, who is of normal stature. I can see how extremes in bodyweight or other factors might limit you, though (350+ bodyweight or being unusually tall, etc).

40

[quote]Tim K wrote:
With work and effort, a natural lifter should be able to hit twice their BW raw. It might take a couple years of dedicated lifting, but is doable. [/quote]

That is an absurd statement. Very few natural lifters will ever hit a 2x bw raw bench with their butt on the seat.