Bench Press Baseline?

Training Powerlifting
61

[quote]Tim K wrote:
It seems a lot people keep missing out the entire, “With hard work and effort…”

Yes, I still firmly believe most people can achieve a 2xBW bench if they are willing to put in the hours at the gym. And yes, that is natural. The problem is, when things start to become difficult, most people quit.

That theme seems to becoming more and more common too.

To make matters worse, people start to whine that anyone that gets a 2xBW lift is on steriods! Hell, when I hit my first competition double BW bench I didn’t even know what steriods were! I thought Arnold achieved his look via diet and hard work.

Missing a double BW by 5 lbs? When you’re that close it becomes a moot point. When did you weigh yourself? In the morning or night? LOL

Yeah, my posts contain a bit anger in them. It pisses me off when people continually sell themselves short. Instead of shooting for the top they settle for the middle. People are terrified to seriously challenge themselves. Instead, they lower the bar and then applaud themself when they touch it.

Hmmm… I guess that’s why they’ll always be average. :frowning: Maybe everyone is happy with only doing the minimum. Too bad Mr. Average will never realize his potential because he is too shortsighted to even see it.

I’m not the only guy here that recognizes that a 2xBW lift is in the reach of almost anyone that puts in the effort to get it. [/quote]

Actually, life is more to me than benching. I deadlift, squat (even thought I hate it), do weighted chins, military press and work with my Inch dumbbell.

I just picked bench press because many people at gyms don’t do classic lifts like the ones that I mentioned. I go for maxes in all of them actually.

They bench because there is glory in that. When you meet people who don’t work out they ask you “What do you bench?” Something like deadlifting let alone an Inch dumbbell is completely alien to them.

So if I were to start a thread on the baseline of squat, dl, mp, etc. I doubt that many people could answer it.

For someone like myself, I like to see where I fit in on the strength totem pole compared to other natural lifters, and not juiced up guys, juicers with 1 ply, 2 ply, denim and all of that other bullshit that makes comparisons impossible.

62

Benchline for me on deads and squats - 3 x bodyweight with a belt and knee wraps. And I have achieved all three in a single powerlifting meet (I only weighed 148 lbs at the time, but I did it). Now, I’m around 180 and closing in and doing all three lifts at my goals at the age of 40.

63

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
JRR641 wrote:
This is just not true…Bill Carpenter who is one of the strongest raw benchers I have seen benches in the low 500’s at a BW of 242lbs. That is amazing. I have been in the PL game for quite awhile, and have trained with quite a few world class benchers, and double BW or more raw is no easy feat.

Now if you consider raising your ass off the bench or bouncing the weight off your chest a good bench then the number of double BW benchers rises.

OK, I’d probably go back to my double BW OR BW+200 (whichever is less) guideline. And keep in mind, I’m talking about a lifetime achievement.

I will not pretend to lack some genetic ability, but I am mostly a leg man. My wrists are 6 1/2 inches spot on, which is very small, and I only maxed 155 in highschool and 170 by the age of 20, and 225 after a bench intensive program at the age of 27. At one point when I was 20, I believed that I could not handle 185 pounds ever-probably because I dropped it on my chest and throat when my spotter let go.

I will do double BW in the near future-2 years at the outside. I probably could get 370 with a little taper, and could probably get down into the 180’s in a couple months without losing it (cause I’m fat). I would use a pause, a legal arch, and no sleeves, although I prefer to use wrist wraps and a belt. The only thing I’m not so sure about is if I could do it without a false grip, cause my wrists and hands are just small (I can’t physically get my hand into a thumblock grip for deadlifting if I wanted to). The false grip helps by putting all of my thumb muscles under the bar to help support the hand.

I train totally alone in my home power rack. I have had a few lifters tell me that when I get away from the false grip, it will actually help me with the lockout.[/quote]

You max with a false grip? Not much for self-preservation instincts, huh?

64

[quote]Tim K wrote:
It seems a lot people keep missing out the entire, “With hard work and effort…”

Yes, I still firmly believe most people can achieve a 2xBW bench if they are willing to put in the hours at the gym. And yes, that is natural. The problem is, when things start to become difficult, most people quit.

That theme seems to becoming more and more common too.

To make matters worse, people start to whine that anyone that gets a 2xBW lift is on steriods! Hell, when I hit my first competition double BW bench I didn’t even know what steriods were! I thought Arnold achieved his look via diet and hard work.

Missing a double BW by 5 lbs? When you’re that close it becomes a moot point. When did you weigh yourself? In the morning or night? LOL

Yeah, my posts contain a bit anger in them. It pisses me off when people continually sell themselves short. Instead of shooting for the top they settle for the middle. People are terrified to seriously challenge themselves. Instead, they lower the bar and then applaud themself when they touch it.

Hmmm… I guess that’s why they’ll always be average. :frowning: Maybe everyone is happy with only doing the minimum. Too bad Mr. Average will never realize his potential because he is too shortsighted to even see it.

I’m not the only guy here that recognizes that a 2xBW lift is in the reach of almost anyone that puts in the effort to get it. [/quote]

I think your last sentence makes the point. Some people are not willing to put in the effort because it isn’t worth it to them. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are lazy or that they are quitters, it may just mean that they have different priorities than you do.

We all make decisions about what areas we want to be successful in and what areas we are going to give a lower priority. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, but you make it sound like anyone who doesn’t achieve a certain level of performance in the weight room is mediocore and Mr. Average. Perhaps they are satisfied with being Mr. Average in the weight room because they are focusing their energy on something else.

Now if you are strictly referring to people who WANT a 2x BW bench and don’t work hard for it, I agree with you there.

65

Just curious, what is considered a good bench for a female. I can bench my body weight 150lb raw. I bench with an arch, feet do not move, do not wiggle, butt on bench and pause at bottom. My goal is to bench 200 raw and 225 lb with bench shirt. I compete with a shirt.

Claire

66

[quote]cvb wrote:
Just curious, what is considered a good bench for a female. I can bench my body weight 150lb raw. I bench with an arch, feet do not move, do not wiggle, butt on bench and pause at bottom. My goal is to bench 200 raw and 225 lb with bench shirt. I compete with a shirt.

Claire[/quote]

A female benching bwt is excellent. My girl can hit 130 raw at about 140 bwt and easily hits 185+ with a shirt. You’ll get more than 25 lbs out of almost any shirt. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

67

I think people’s attitudes here are terrible. Why would nobody be able to hit a 1.5bw bench for a start??? 2xbw should be there for anyone who wants it badly enough.

I’m only benching 115kg @ 90kg and being honest I’m disgusted with it. My immediate goal is 135kg in a PL meet and i’m only 19. Why can someone with 5+ years experience not hit a 1.5/2xBW bench. In all honesty I think that anyone who’s 90kg or under who really wants it sohuld be capable of hitting 2x bodyweight.

68

[quote]dookie1481 wrote:
You max with a false grip? Not much for self-preservation instincts, huh?[/quote]

Well, I bench in a power rack with the catchers set just above my arched chest. When I bring my arch down, its below the catchers. I’ve done perhaps 15,000 reps in the last 5 years and have never lost control-but I unrack all of my sets myself.

Also, with my hands, and thumbs around, I am in much more of an unstable position. Part of the problem may be that I have gone out to the maximum width-index fingers on the 32" marks, and with short arms. I get less wrist strain when I bring my hands in 3-4 inches on each side and don’t lose that much-365 wide and paused and 345 with a closer grip-so I am considering bringing in the grip, as well as reducing my arch considerably.

69

[quote]cadav wrote:
our “strongest” woman at 50kg bodyweight as 1RM of 143lbs, her best lift is however squat (a nice 135lbs 6RM)[/quote] I’d say her bench is her best lift. For a 110lb woman, 135lb squat (even for reps) isn’t THAT big a deal. But the 143lb bench really is. Especially if she doesn’t compete.

70

JUst did 2x bodyweight last week. Benched 375 at BW of 186. (strict, touch chest, no bounce, butt on bench, no excessive arch and moderately slow negative). Interestingly, I actually did it the DAY AFTER a bench day.

I just felt really good and strong after work the next day and wanted to try a mx (hadn’t done a single in 2 years). I just did 350 x 4 so I actually expected to do a higher single but I just think I’m out of practice and I was a tad weak from doing chest 24 hours earlier.

71

[quote]cvb wrote:
Just curious, what is considered a good bench for a female. I can bench my body weight 150lb raw. I bench with an arch, feet do not move, do not wiggle, butt on bench and pause at bottom. My goal is to bench 200 raw and 225 lb with bench shirt. I compete with a shirt.

Claire[/quote]

From what I have seen, the average bench for a female (raw) is about 75-105 pounds. I have seen a few girls hit 135 and one fatty dike hit 185. You are doing good.

72

[quote]sharetrader wrote:
Hmm. The limited pool of participants shouldn’t have much influence on the standards, only on the number of people who reach them. On the numbers you quote, I would say these are more appropriate to someone relatively short, with short arms. The archetypal 200lb six footer TimK is talking about wouldn’t have these ratios. BTW, I notice on your other post your slow but steady progress on the bench. Congrats, you are a great example of what can be achieved with persistence. (The small hands probably are limiting your DL too).
[/quote]

But aren’t the numbers based on actual totals of individuals who place in raw competitions? I will go back to the site and read how they arrived at the numbers.

As for my lifts, its strange how things change. I pulled 385 within a month of deadlifting, and couldn’t bench 170 at that point.

73

[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
From your experience in gyms, what would you say that the average bench one rep max is for both natural and chemically assisted male lifters?

I think that for natural men, the range, which depends on weight, is probably from 230 to 280.

For the chemically assisted bencher, I have seen that 375 to 450 is the range, with these guys being often larger than the natural lifter, and also depending on what they are taking.

What would be your estimate from your gym?[/quote]

So, going back to the original post, I think we got a little off track. I will not use a “gym” but I will use highschool athletes as a gauge. They do bench-too much for their sports-and there is a lot of variation from sport to sport.

I will stick with football players because they actually do take weight training seriously, and there are big ones, and there are fast and skinny ones as well.

My school program is “competetive”. It is in the second largest classification (4A our of 5) and has been solid a playoff contender-with 1 state runner up finish, but occasionally around the .500 mark.

Over 6 years, I would have a sample of about 200 guys of all shapes and sizes who have gone through 4 years of training.

In that time, nobody has done 400 raw. One guy did 400 with a shirt, but 335 max without, maybe for a double, although his form was not ideal for benching. He weighted 280.

Another guy who weighed 280, did 315 for 10 reps. That should be around a 420 max, but I never saw him do 400. I never saw anyone bench more than 335.

Another 280 pound guy benched 330.

All three of these guys were solid D II recruits for football and or wrestling.

I have probably seen a total of 15 guys out of 200 who benched 300, or were close enough-with maybe a little help.

That’s 7.5% after 3 years of lifting and at the age of 18.

One guy did 300 at around 220, so a little over +50.

Most of the guys in the 170-190 range who lift seriously on the team get up to sets with 185 for 5-10 reps. This would be 215-240, so again, about 50 pounds over bodyweight.

Again, this school is solidly above average in size and competitiveness.

I have never seen a player legitimately squat or deadlift more than 455. I saw a guy get 495 about an inch high.

If you take out the 150 guys out of 200 who weren’t as serious in the weight room, and focus on the 50 top guys over the years, there have been maybe 15 BIG guys (250+) who lifted seriously for 3 years.

They averaged around 260 in bodyweight.

They averaged about a 290-300 bench press.

And they averaged about 425 squat and deadlift.

Of the 20 middle sized guys, they averaged around 220 bodyweight. They benched around 250 and squatted 350 and deadlifted 385 on average if you count a real squat.

Of the 15 smaller guys, they averaged around 180, benched about 225, squatted 315 and deadlifted 350 maybe.

74

[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
cvb wrote:
Just curious, what is considered a good bench for a female. I can bench my body weight 150lb raw. I bench with an arch, feet do not move, do not wiggle, butt on bench and pause at bottom. My goal is to bench 200 raw and 225 lb with bench shirt. I compete with a shirt.

Claire

From what I have seen, the average bench for a female (raw) is about 75-105 pounds. I have seen a few girls hit 135 and one fatty dike hit 185. You are doing good.

[/quote]

Most of the girls in my gym bench between 65-85 lbs and many only use the machines or dumbbells. There are two other girls that powerlift at my gym and they are much stronger than I am but they have been competing for years. Most girls do not want to bench heavy because they are afraid they will get big or start looking like a man.

We have at least two guys in our gym who lift 2xBWT (raw). They are both power lifters.

75

I used to have a partner who was 100% natural and 55 years old whom on a goodday could hit 500 pound bench (he was a freak) and he only lifted for about 5 years.

But other than that of the natural guys I’ve sceen at my gym 75% of them could bench in the 275 range.

76

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
Hmm. The limited pool of participants shouldn’t have much influence on the standards, only on the number of people who reach them. On the numbers you quote, I would say these are more appropriate to someone relatively short, with short arms. The archetypal 200lb six footer TimK is talking about wouldn’t have these ratios. BTW, I notice on your other post your slow but steady progress on the bench. Congrats, you are a great example of what can be achieved with persistence. (The small hands probably are limiting your DL too).

But aren’t the numbers based on actual totals of individuals who place in raw competitions? I will go back to the site and read how they arrived at the numbers.

As for my lifts, its strange how things change. I pulled 385 within a month of deadlifting, and couldn’t bench 170 at that point.[/quote]

Shit! Life isn’t fair ;( I have been lifting 3 1/2 years and still can’t pull 385. Then again, I was over 50 when I started.