This is a question in a similar vein as my previous questions. Im working on my diet. Im 6’2" @ 224.4 pounds. BF% is 23-24% based on a DEXA scan over the summer. Ive been on Tirzepatide for about 9 months, which has definitely helped. Ive been on TRT at 200mg per week,split into 2 doses. My muscle mass went down a bit on the last DEXA due to the muscle wasting properties of Tirzepatide. Id like to increase my test to 250 per week to help combat that and slowly aff more strngth and muscle. Do you see that as being problematic based ony BF%. I’m worried about the extra test aromatizing into more estrogen. Thoughts? Thanks and this is also why I’d asked about taking Primobolan in an earlier thread this week.
You should be, because 250 mg isn’t TRT.
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I understand that. Im trying to combat the muscle loss from tirzepatide, which is why i asked. At 200mg, i was still experiencing it, whichbis my trt dose.
If you are eating enough protien and challenging the muscle properly you should not have any muscle wasting issues.
The people that have issues are the ones that do nothing but take the GLP and sit on their asses.
At your BF I would not increase test. You should nit need to.
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I definitely am working my ass off in the gym but I’m also probably in a caloric deficit at around 2300k per day. Tough to find the right balance. I will definitely concentrate on hitting 1gm of protein per pound of BW.
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Check out the info on resveratrol in this recent article. It should help out:
Additional test is NOT going to give you the weight loss you are looking for.
Primo is NOT going to give you the weight loss you are looking for.
Tirzepatide can help. But it’s NOT a long-term solution.
Additional test mostly aromatizes into estrogen dependent on the amount of body fat one has. More Body fat ='s more estrogen.
More research on sustainable changes in diet and less research on PED’s will get you right where you need to be.
for some people like me, GLP1’s are highly problematic (not doing general bashing here). energy tanking, strength losses etc. I’m in a similar place like you, 6.4, 235lb(gained some recently), 24% BF, and was doing slow recomp where my BF went down from 30% and I gained 5LB muscle at the same time roughly (probably more muscle now with the extra fat)
I agree that more test will do shit, you may get e2 sides, but this is not given or even a problem
there is a million diets and adhered to probably all work, but after experiment with many of them (everything from carnivore to eat all/vegan), I eventually stuck on the red meat/dairy/fruit (no starches, rice, oats, grains) and its where i function the best. red meat will naturally raise your glp1 levels without the s/x of glp1 receptor agonists.
I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest that GLP1’s actually cause muscle waste.
I think it’s far more likely that some landwhale soccer mom was taking Trizapatide and lost muscle while also losing weight.
You know, because the only protein she eats comes from her kid’s leftover nuggies and she doesn’t lift.
Also, I want to address the “muscle loss” your DEXA scan says you lost… did you actually lose tissue or was the muscle just less inflated? I know you can’t answer that question - neither can the DEXA. So if you aren’t weaker, then you haven’t lost muscle.
Frankly, you’re still too fat to be concerned about losing muscle. Your body has no interest in losing it while you still have ample fat stores.
So to answer your question: fix your fuckin diet, and only increase gear when you get down to say 15% or so and ONLY if your performance is dropping.
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Thank you for the response. There is certainly no sugar coating things in this forum, and I don’t take offense. It’s easy to say “fix your fuckin diet” if you have the knowledge base and experience to do so. While I’m not some fat slob (used to be, but I’m not going to engage in self-abuse that way), I don’t know how to fix my diet. The internet is an incredible resource and also a cesspool of misinformation. I can review 5 different “experts” and their plans and they will all have contradictory information. One person says it’s all about calories in and calories out. The next one says calories don’t matter, it’s about insulin resistance. So, how should one fix their fucking diet? I don’t think that is particularly helpful to tell a noob that. If it were that simple, I’d have done it already. With that said, I’ve reached out to a coach who I think can really help me on the training and nutrition side. Whether or not PEDs will be part of that process is something I will entrust to my coach’s judgement and experience.
BTW, you bring up a good point about the DEXA scan. I have no way of answering it. I’m getting one in January 2025, so I’ll have something to compare over the last year (April and July 2024) to get a better idea of progress to go along with the mirror progress.
Thanks.
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Protein: 1g/lb bodyweight
Fats: 0.3g/lb bodyweight (this can be less if you are on TRT, but this is a fine recommendation in either case)
Carbs: to fill to your caloric need (if the scale isn’t dropping at least 1lb/wk, reduce carbs further)
It is actually very simple, but there are thousands of ways to diet, and the “correct” way is the one that works best with your lifestyle.
I have a handful of clients whom I’ve helped lose weight. Some as much as 60lbs, some of whom are 40lbs deep and still have another 100 to go.
My approach is to teach the basics (which is already in this post) and then provide different methods or tools to have the individual experiment with.
Whichever method of dieting (food group restriction, calorie restriction, time restriction, etc) seems to speak to the individual the most, I encourage them to try. That has provided me with a surprising amount of success with my clients.
I would not give your coach the leniency to adjust your PED usage unless you REALLY know who you’re hiring and have goals that REQUIRE these tools to get there.
Your goals, so far, do not require the use of more PEDs.
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Thank you, Andrewgen. I really appreciate the response. It makes sense. It’s super hard to get that protein in when I’m eating steak, salmon, etc. w/o boosting my fat levels. Some people say to cut the carbs out completely and eat ketogenic, but I find that nearly impossible to follow as I’m married with a college aged boy who likes to eat pasta and stuff. This makes total sense and I’m sure the coach will give me something similar. Really, I just need someone to look at my history (nutrition and lifting), my goals, etc. and tell me how / what to do and I’ll do it. I definitely haven’t been able to figure it out on my own, so I do appreciate the feedback.
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Consider a carb rotation diet to get the BF down. It will also free up a lot of calories from the reduced fat. Fat, aside from essential fats, do nothing really to aid in performance.
Carb rotate it match your activity levels.
Low days are non lifting days.
Medium days are lifting days.
High carbs are also lifting days but usually leg or back focused.
I’m using a rotation diet to gain tissue and I’m eating a LOT of carbs on my high days. I’ve also used a rotation to diet down a weight class for powerlifting. It works in either direction if done properly.
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That’s awesome. Thank you!
Muscle wasting is due to poor diet or not enough calories. If you’re 6’2 at 225 I’d jump off the Tri…. And fix my diet. That’s a really good weight at that height.
Depending on your activity level, job, and exercise regimen you could easily dial in and cut BF. Keep TRT @200 or below and buy Jay Campbell’s book on Trt therapy and micro dosing. If you have a good PCC that will prescribe trt then it’s very easy. Most practitioners are clueless as well as most shot docs and ageless mens health places.
He’s going to likely need a reverse diet for a couple weeks if his calories are crazy low due to the weight loss shot.
Also if he was on the shot, he needs to do a fasted lab to see what his fasted glucose levels are because if he’s insulin resistant high carb days are gonna be bad for him. High protein, moderate carbs and low fats (25%) total calories. I agree those should be dietary fats or MCT oil.
Lol people saying “carb cycle and reverse diet” to someone that doesnt track their macros.
Start with the basics OP. Track your intake and weekly weight averages.
Adjust from there.
The other tools listed are great tools, but require a level of intensity beyond what your next step is.
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I appreciate everyone’s feedback. Truly. I got a coach to help me with diet and workout. Meetketchup from the aas forum. Im excited to learn from him and everyone else on the forum and i definitely am grateful for the willingness to guide a noob through the process. Ill keep everyone posted on my progress.
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I worked with him in the past. He’s an excellent coach; do your dilligence to be an excellent client.
Thanks. Agreed. I will do everything to be an excellent client. I’m committed to making huge changes in my body. I just need focised guidance and coaching. I’m super happy i found him.
Bill
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