There were some crazy ass weird fills that I havent ever seen transcribed in “Call of Kthulu” on Lightning too…Cliff was a great bassist and did some very innovative stuff but hes not the be all end all as far as talent goes for sure. My brother’s bass lines and fills are more complex than a lot of Burton’s stuff. I know they get hated on for being a little too mainstream now, but the guitarists and bassist for BTBAM are phenomenal musicians. Check out some of their studio footage.
Arguing about one’s personal stylistic preferences in music is futile. A musician’s talent and skill can be measured against the many criteria for professional standards of excellence. But the music you like to play, or the music you like to listen to, are subject to only one set of standards…your own.
And a good band is always greater than the sum of it’s members.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
read a post about how death/black metal are so outside the mainstream. You don’t think some of the more radio friendly genres wouldn’t have done better? I realise you don’t give a shit about them but COME ON. Your also using megadeth, a band that probably could have survived a total purge on metal. Simply put I think the 90s would have produced a lot more good music had say, nirvana never existed.
Wait? Power and Thrash are radio friendly? Since when did I hear Demolition Hammer or Destruction or even Persuader on the radio?
Saying Nirvana killed “mainstream” metal is basically telling you me you need to stop watching VH1. Megadeth did survive whatever metal purge you’re talking about, their only musical blunder was Risk, and that was all Marty’s fault.
Arguing about the 90’s producing more good music is mute, Glam and whatever crap that was making music was imploding by 1990.
Can you honestly say a band like this wasn’t going to implode? Rick Roll - YouTube
shit, I hear metallicas early stuff on teh radio here a lot. and I rarely listen to radio.
btw: I like glam.
Not to mention all of his is before my time. and the video doesn’t work.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
There were some crazy ass weird fills that I havent ever seen transcribed in “Call of Kthulu” on Lightning too…Cliff was a great bassist and did some very innovative stuff but hes not the be all end all as far as talent goes for sure. My brother’s bass lines and fills are more complex than a lot of Burton’s stuff. I know they get hated on for being a little too mainstream now, but the guitarists and bassist for BTBAM are phenomenal musicians. Check out some of their studio footage.[/quote]
Yup. You can get people who hate that style of music to say that btbam is rediculously good. Not to mention pretty original.
bringing up BTBAM is kinda ironic. They did a great job on the cemetery gates cover. They put their own spin on it. I hate it when bands try to cover songs and sound exactly like the original.
Lack of talent doesn’t mean no talent. There just simply aren’t as many top tier guys in the genre IMO. I would love to see more bands with that kind of talent.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
read a post about how death/black metal are so outside the mainstream. You don’t think some of the more radio friendly genres wouldn’t have done better? I realise you don’t give a shit about them but COME ON. Your also using megadeth, a band that probably could have survived a total purge on metal. Simply put I think the 90s would have produced a lot more good music had say, nirvana never existed.
Wait? Power and Thrash are radio friendly? Since when did I hear Demolition Hammer or Destruction or even Persuader on the radio?
Saying Nirvana killed “mainstream” metal is basically telling you me you need to stop watching VH1. Megadeth did survive whatever metal purge you’re talking about, their only musical blunder was Risk, and that was all Marty’s fault.
Arguing about the 90’s producing more good music is mute, Glam and whatever crap that was making music was imploding by 1990.
Can you honestly say a band like this wasn’t going to implode? Rick Roll - YouTube
shit, I hear metallicas early stuff on teh radio here a lot. and I rarely listen to radio.
btw: I like glam.
Not to mention all of his is before my time. and the video doesn’t work.[/quote]
Well you have mention that you liked Glam earlier, or else I wouldn’t be posting in this thread. I despise Glam with a passion with the exception of maybe Skid Row.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Lack of talent doesn’t mean no talent. There just simply aren’t as many top tier guys in the genre IMO. I would love to see more bands with that kind of talent.[/quote]
This is where you are wrong. Many of the most technically proficient guys in the entire rock world play some form of extreme metal simply because it allows for the envelope to be pushed the farthest. Death Metal is a lot like Pro Bodybuilding. Its all about pushing the envelope and bringing the most extreme package possible.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Lack of talent doesn’t mean no talent. There just simply aren’t as many top tier guys in the genre IMO. I would love to see more bands with that kind of talent.
This is where you are wrong. Many of the most technically proficient guys in the entire rock world play some form of extreme metal simply because it allows for the envelope to be pushed the farthest.
[/quote]
I know nothing of this. You should send me some vids/links
I’d love to see some of this. No sarcasm intended
[quote]
Death Metal is a lot like Pro Bodybuilding. Its all about pushing the envelope and bringing the most extreme package possible.[/quote]
well yeah. This is just to be assumed.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Lack of talent doesn’t mean no talent. There just simply aren’t as many top tier guys in the genre IMO. I would love to see more bands with that kind of talent.
This is where you are wrong. Many of the most technically proficient guys in the entire rock world play some form of extreme metal simply because it allows for the envelope to be pushed the farthest.
I know nothing of this. You should send me some vids/links
I’d love to see some of this. No sarcasm intended
Death Metal is a lot like Pro Bodybuilding. Its all about pushing the envelope and bringing the most extreme package possible.
well yeah. This is just to be assumed.[/quote]
Stronghold pretty much nailed it. Death Metal has always been for the most part, all about the brutality. Bands have always been pushing the envelope in terms of speed, technicality, etc. but most, and most importantly of all, brutality. I don’t and for the most part, most death metal listeners listen to the music for brutality. It’s an extreme type of music, that keeps on trying to be even more extreme.
[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Arguing about one’s personal stylistic preferences in music is futile. A musician’s talent and skill can be measured against the many criteria for professional standards of excellence. But the music you like to play, or the music you like to listen to, are subject to only one set of standards…your own.
And a good band is always greater than the sum of it’s members. [/quote]
I can’t think of anything else to add to this. Great post.
I dont watch much tv so I havnt caught Pantera’s Behind the Music and I have 0 musical talent but to me Dimebag is in the Top ten all time and Phil Anselmo was a(drugged out PoS rotten MFer) Musically great front man. “This Love” was a great song.
I could be wrong but wasnt Pantera a glam/hair band when they first started?
And I really dont want to get into this but I think music as a whole would have been better with out Seattle in the 90’s you cant put the “Grunge” explotion it on just Nirvana. I put most of it on Flannel and Heroine and a need to bring down every one with them. Its not to often that anyone WILL EVER say this but I have to agree with one thing Vince Neil said. I dont remember the exact quote but it was something like…
“All they sing about is feeling like shit and every thing bad. JC try doing something that makes you feel good”
But just think of all the crape things that came out of Seattle…Courtney Love, the Supersonics, really bad fucking poetry,…Courtney Love
Just my opinon
(edit) Here I am making a quote about “things that make us feel good” and the Pantera song I through in the hat is “This Love”…how the hell dose that work? Well it gets me “pumped” thats what matters
[quote]Himora22 wrote:
(edit) Here I am making a quote about “things that make us feel good” and the Pantera song I through in the hat is “This Love”…how the hell dose that work? Well it gets me “pumped” thats what matters[/quote]
I agree with on that, except replace Pantera with Suffocation, and I get pumped with that. I don’t listen to technical death metal for the technicalness, I listen to it for the brutality, and that’s what it all comes down to.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
This is where you are wrong. Many of the most technically proficient guys in the entire rock world play some form of extreme metal simply because it allows for the envelope to be pushed the farthest. Death Metal is a lot like Pro Bodybuilding. Its all about pushing the envelope and bringing the most extreme package possible.[/quote]
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Lack of talent doesn’t mean no talent. There just simply aren’t as many top tier guys in the genre IMO. I would love to see more bands with that kind of talent.
This is where you are wrong. Many of the most technically proficient guys in the entire rock world play some form of extreme metal simply because it allows for the envelope to be pushed the farthest. Death Metal is a lot like Pro Bodybuilding. Its all about pushing the envelope and bringing the most extreme package possible.[/quote]
I disagree with you on this – or at least on how we’d describe ‘extreme’. There’s a difference between ‘extreme music’ and ‘extreme musicianship’. The only things I see as being extreme are the speed, the volume, and the persona. Brutality is the goal, and they achieve it. However, there are several other elements of music which they don’t seem to explore in much (if any) depth.
When I think ‘pushing the envelope’ musically, speed is only one component – and pretty much the last thing I’d take note of. Of the three components of music – rhythm, harmony, and melody – these bands are only ‘extreme’ in regards to their use of rhythm.
There are interesting and often challenging rhythms, there’s certainly plenty of speed, but that’s about it. Not much in the way of interesting harmony, almost nothing in the way of melody. There are players in other rock genres who are much more ‘extreme’ on a MUSICIANSHIP level than any of these guys.
Here are a few examples of musicians that I’d put ahead in terms of being ‘extreme’ as it applies to musicianship – not persona. On a purely technical level, these guys are WELL beyond any of the bands you posted (this doesn’t really mean shit, since I’ve posted basically the most technically advanced rock players on the planet) but they are also much more extreme in that they’re pushing the boundaries in ALL musical areas – interesting rhythms, complex harmonies underlaying challenging melodic ideas, a variety of advanced techniques, unique rhythmic structures, top-notch improvisation.
[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
This is where you are wrong. Many of the most technically proficient guys in the entire rock world play some form of extreme metal simply because it allows for the envelope to be pushed the farthest. Death Metal is a lot like Pro Bodybuilding. Its all about pushing the envelope and bringing the most extreme package possible.
Stronghold wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Lack of talent doesn’t mean no talent. There just simply aren’t as many top tier guys in the genre IMO. I would love to see more bands with that kind of talent.
This is where you are wrong. Many of the most technically proficient guys in the entire rock world play some form of extreme metal simply because it allows for the envelope to be pushed the farthest. Death Metal is a lot like Pro Bodybuilding. Its all about pushing the envelope and bringing the most extreme package possible.
I disagree with you on this – or at least on how we’d describe ‘extreme’. There’s a difference between ‘extreme music’ and ‘extreme musicianship’. The only things I see as being extreme are the speed, the volume, and the persona. Brutality is the goal, and they achieve it. However, there are several other elements of music which they don’t seem to explore in much (if any) depth.
When I think ‘pushing the envelope’ musically, speed is only one component – and pretty much the last thing I’d take note of. Of the three components of music – rhythm, harmony, and melody – these bands are only ‘extreme’ in regards to their use of rhythm.
There are interesting and often challenging rhythms, there’s certainly plenty of speed, but that’s about it. Not much in the way of interesting harmony, almost nothing in the way of melody. There are players in other rock genres who are much more ‘extreme’ on a MUSICIANSHIP level than any of these guys.
Here are a few examples of musicians that I’d put ahead in terms of being ‘extreme’ as it applies to musicianship – not persona. On a purely technical level, these guys are WELL beyond any of the bands you posted (this doesn’t really mean shit, since I’ve posted basically the most technically advanced rock players on the planet) but they are also much more extreme in that they’re pushing the boundaries in ALL musical areas – interesting rhythms, complex harmonies underlaying challenging melodic ideas, a variety of advanced techniques, unique rhythmic structures, top-notch improvisation.
[/quote]
You’re changing the agrument, if we’re talking about the most proficent players on the planet, then I 100% agree that Morse is by far the best. When we’re talking about extreme music we’re talking about the persona, the brutality, etc etc. If we want to talk just pure music, then those two are perfect examples of the most talented.
[quote]Himora22 wrote:
I have to agree with one thing Vince Neil said. I dont remember the exact quote but it was something like…
“All they sing about is feeling like shit and every thing bad. JC try doing something that makes you feel good”
[/quote]
Vince Neal??? Hah! What a total make-over pussy. Never was a good singer, and a worse lyricist. He’s not fit to wash Chris Cornell’s underwear. If it wasn’t for bands like Soundgarden and Alice In Chains raging onto the music scene, those pussy-ass 80’s hair bands would still be ruining heavy metal.
[quote]Love2Lift wrote:
Vince Neal??? Hah! What a total make-over pussy. Never was a good singer, and a worse lyricist. He’s not fit to wash Chris Cornell’s underwear. If it wasn’t for bands like Soundgarden and Alice In Chains raging onto the music scene, those pussy-ass 80’s hair bands would still be ruining heavy metal. [/quote]
Soundgarden and Alice in Chains were both around in the 80’s…hardly “raging onto the music scene”. What happened was is some music industry guys decided that grunge was the next big thing so they signed some obscure seattle bands and started having their stuff played on MTV and radio. People are far too dramatic about describing what happened. The only thing hair metal ruined was top 40 radio rock. Heavy metal did just fine during the 80’s.
I see your Steve Morse and raise you Paul Gilbert:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
I see your Steve Morse and raise you Paul Gilbert:
Very nice! PG is great, he always makes me smile. And he doesn’t suck at guitar at all (though I still prefer Morse). I think Gilbert is Buckethead…
Probably…buckethead is like 6’5" too isnt he?