BBB 3 Month Challenge: Optional Exercises/1RM/Weight Questions

Training 5/3/1
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[quote=“mortdk, post:80, topic:265554”]
First of good work finishing the challenge well done, by now you know something about Jims work and what to expect.

If you want to do the Challenge again then do it again.
If you got at least 5 good clean reps on the 531 day, you’ll up the TM by 5 / 10 lbs.

Start over with 5x10 50% first cycle 60% second cycle 70% third cycle.

That’s the challenge.

You could try this one:
next cycle BBB work 75% 5 x 8
cycle 2: 80% 5 x 7
cycle 3: 85% 5x6
cycle 4: 90% 5x5
cycle 5: 95% 5x3
cycle 6: TM 5x1

This looks very interesting. Did you try this yourself? And what were the results.

I didn’t make the 5 reps with deadlifts. Shall I just take this one at the same weight as month 3 and not increase it?

by the assistance exercises, I meant some extra exercises after the main lifts.

On each bench press day, add upper chest exercises 3x15.

On press days, add lateral raises 3x15

I also thought to increase the assisctance exercises every month.

Month 1 3x10
month 2 4x10
month 3 5x10

I don’t keep track of the weights of the assistance, so I’m still insured for overload every month.

Thanks for your reaction.

I read the book. Wants to make sure I’m doing it right, which is why I’m here asking how best to do it.

The blackbeast calculator is easy to use. I’m a drama with math, so I’m afraid there’ll be nothing wrong with my schedule if I have to calculate it myself.

83

Then you said:

Makes no sense to me.

I’m doing it at the moment, If I was younger I would have no doubt whatsoever that I would have made good progress.

BBB is A LOT of work.

If you want to add assistance to that, keep it to bodybuilding just do 3x10 or 3x15, focus on feeling the muscles working.

Do a lot of BB rows, DB rows, chins and pull ups.

You could do triumvirate as @RampantBadger told you.

You have to KNOW the philosophy behind, that’s KEY to doing it. Reading books asking questions is a good way to learn a bit about it. BUT you have to learn it by yourself.

Do this:

Find your TM weight for the first cycle

Finding TM is easy as it can be go back through your log find the weight you did 5 good solid reps with, not something you did a year or 6 month ago a recent 5RM. Good and strong.

Find it for all 5 lifts:

Next cycle you amrap your topset of the main lift
week 1 you might get 12 reps
week 2 you might get 8 or 9 reps
week 3 you get 5 - 7 reps

If you get at least 5 good strong reps with 95% of your TM (3 weeks topset) you increase your TM by 2,5 kg for upper body lifts and 5 kg for lower body lifts (you could just increase all lifts by 2,5 kg unless you get 8 reps or more on lower body then go 5 kg)

After this set
You do your supplemental lift either with the same lift
Main squat supplemental squar
OR “the opposite lift”
main lift squat supplemental Deadlift

Supplemental do FSL weight do it as an amrap set as well.

After this do assistance
50 reps of push (dips, push ups, triceps, db bench flat or incline anything for push muscles)
50 reps of pull (rows, chins, pull ups, curls)
50 reps of single leg work (lunges, split squat) OR Core work (any thing for abs/core)

Put all your effort in then main lift, put a lot in the supplemental, just do assistance doesn’t really matter.

If you want to have big muscles and do calves, side delts, inside of biceps, inner chest and stuff like that hitting a muscle from all sort of angles then you should look into a bodybuilding program.
Jims work is about strength and getting big and jacked, not shredded with abs.

Train hard, eat big. Learn the principles behind if you want to do 531.
Do the basic stuff, learn what works and what doesn’t FOR YOU.

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Youve made about 5 posts in this thread where this blackbeast thing has got it wrong, try something else

I’d consider a different training approach then, Dan John, Thibadeau etc

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Just to add briefly to this, I’ve used this calculator for years with no issues because I used it as a calculator, not a program designer. I went in understanding the program I was looking to use and used it simply to establish numbers for the programming I’d already planned.

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Thank you for your reaction and for putting so much effort into it.

I meant after the current assistance.
So I have the 5x10 assistance and then I have the asstistance of the assistance exercises.

These are the 3 isolation exercises. I thought it might be an idea to do those in the 1st month 3 sets and the 2nd month 4 sets and the 3rd month 5 sets.

I could just take the 5 reps of my last week of the month. So the 5/3/1 week?

If I take my 1 rep of the BBB challenge(wendler training max) and enter it in the calculator then it’s good too, right?

Otherwise I’ll do it the way you described it

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Yes if you got 5 reps on the top set, use that weight as your TM.

Calculate everything from the TM, IF you choose to to the BBB challenge again use the TM weight.

For instance

if you last top set of the 531 looked like this

80 x 5 reps, 90 x 5 reps 100 x 5 reps

Then you TM is 100 no more no less.

First week you topset would be 85, second 90 and last week it would be 95

The BBB set would be 5 x 10 with 50.

Assistance is 50 reps of push, pull, one leg/core.
In my mind you have to do 1 day chin, 1 day pull up, 1 day BB row 1 day DB row you have to build a big strong back.

88

Ok great! Thank you so much!

Edit:

If I take the 1 rep max and enter it in the calculator, I see that in month 3 on squat for example, my weight has only increased 5 kilos in 3 months. is this realistic ?

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The calculator have not been your friend very much has it.
Do not trust it.

As stated use your 5RM weight as TM.
If it’s 100 as I lay out on my previous post

Then after cycle 1 (that is 3 weeks) you get lets say 7 reps on squat (95 in this case kg)
Then you up the TM by 5 kg because you did very good
The new TM is now 105 kg

The next cycle your third week 531 week will be 99,75 kg (105/100=1,05x95 = 99,75)

IF you get 6 reps with 100 kg on that week the you up your TM for the following week by only 2,5 kg it wasn’t that good, the new TM is now 107,5 kg.

New weight on the 531 week will be 102,1 (107,5/100=1,075x95=102,125)

This means that the TM will increase by 5 kg or 2,5 kg every 3 weeks.
If you can recover the you do 2 cycles back to back before your deload week if you can’t handle the recovery you will deload every cycle.

The math is very very simple

TM divided by 100 multiply by the given percentage

100 dived by 100 is equal to 1 multiply by 65, 75 and 85 for 5’s week 3’s week multiply be 70, 80 and 90 and for the 531 week multiply by 75, 85 and 95.

If TM is 85 you divide by 100 and gets 0,85 multiply with 65, 75 and 85= 55, 64, 72 you load the bar with 55 first set, second set 65 and third set 72,5 kg.

That is very very simple, training is not only hard work it takes just a bit of brain.

If you have the first edition of Jims work It’s all explained in a very basic and solid way.

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Thanks again for your reaction.

I really don’t get it anymore… What program are we talking about now? The BBB challenge?

I thought I could just take the 1 rep of week 3 cycle 3 and enter it into the calculator.

I also never get 7 reps, because I never do in the challange AMRAP.

can no longer see the forest through the trees

91

READ THE BOOK, sorry but you have to know the principles behind the program AND you have to understand it.

The very very first program was written by a bloke who squatted a lot of kg

He said to the main lift, three working sets let them count put all you got into that final top set.
He quickly realized that a lot of trainees couldn’t put as much effort in the main lift that it was enough.
He then said do triumvirate do the Main lift put all you got into this.
Move on and do the 2 exercises that will be of best value to supplement the main lift.
for squat he suggested leg press and and leg curl. Bench was dip and chin up.
BUT whatever 2 exercises the trainee thought was best for them.

Then people wanted more and he came up with a number of programs, most famous was BBB.
One of the best probably FSL 5x5.
BUT triumvirate is a really really good choice.

I will try to lay out the first day of a basic Wendler approach: first FSL 5x5 and BBB

First warm up, get the heart rate up, do some mobility, then do some jumping or throwing depending on the day upper or lower.

Squat first set is ALWAYS the bar only, feel the bar and how it travels.

Then you do one or two warm up sets. Lets pretend your TM is 100

so bar x 10, 40 kg x 8 reps, 55 x 5, working sets 65 x 5 reps, 75 x 5 reps 85 x amrap 12 reps maybe, try to beat the previous time you had 85 on your back maybe it was 10 reps then stop at 11 you beat the old rep PR. That’s the purpose you got stronger.

NOW you move to the supplemental lift here it’s squat.

I give you 2 ways to do it

First option is the standard FSL 5x5 means the first working set 65 kg 5 sets x 5 reps.

Second option is BBB the very first day of the first cycle

BBB set is 5 sets of 10 reps with 50% of TM so 50 kg 5 sets x 10 reps.

Next is assistance it could be a giant set of:

Push up
Pull up
crunches

That’s it you’re finished.

If you like to do the supplemental as the opposite lift: in this case DL
Then you load the bar and do 1 or 2 warm up sets before the BBB sets.

Second day would be bench main supplemental bench or OHP
Third day rest
fourth day deadlift main, supplemental deadlift or Squat
fifth day rest or OHP main,supplemental OHP or Bench
sixth day: if you did OHP on the fifth day you rest otherwise OHP main supplemental OHP or Bench
seventh day rest

NEW WEEK
First day squat and so on.

92

Thank you.

Okay, I think we talked past each other. I see you’re talking about the triumvirate and I’m talking about the BBB Challenge every time.

That’s why I didn’t understand much of it.

The trimvirate certainly looks good, only our gym isn’t fully open yet and I don’t have everything at my disposal.

The only thing I can do is exercise with barbells and dumbells, that is why I choose to do the challenge again.

What I find strange is when I enter the wendler max weights in the calculator, this is the 1 rep. This one I can just take from my previous
that everything goes up compared to last time, only the bench press doesn’t. The 1 rep max stays the same.

the image with the gray background is my new challange and with the white background i have finished. You can see that the weights have increased slightly.

What I do not understand is that the bench press has increased minimally. The bench press weights are not increased on all 5/3/1 days, only slightly on the 3 reps days.

The 1 rep of the 3rd cycle remains 1x105 (+5 kilos) = 110. This was also in my previous challenge. So if I did the challenge again after this, I would have to enter 110 again and the weights will remain the same. Hope you understand me.

Below is my new schedule:

http://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator?assistanceWork=boringButBig3MonthChallenge&massUnits=kilograms&maxesSwitch=trainingMax&militaryMaxReps=10&militaryMaxWeight=45&benchMaxReps=4&benchMaxWeight=112.5&closeGripBenchMaxReps=1&closeGripBenchMaxWeight=300&inclinePressMaxReps=1&inclinePressMaxWeight=300&powerCleanMaxReps=1&powerCleanMaxWeight=300&hangCleanMaxReps=1&hangCleanMaxWeight=300&frontSquatMaxReps=1&frontSquatMaxWeight=320&squatMaxReps=7&squatMaxWeight=97.5&deadliftMaxReps=2&deadliftMaxWeight=150&stiffLegDeadliftMaxReps=1&stiffLegDeadliftMaxWeight=500&militaryTrainingMaxWeight=57.5&benchTrainingMaxWeight=110&closeGripBenchTrainingMaxWeight=270&inclinePressTrainingMaxWeight=270&powerCleanTrainingMaxWeight=270&hangCleanTrainingMaxWeight=270&frontSquatTrainingMaxWeight=290&squatTrainingMaxWeight=112.5&deadliftTrainingMaxWeight=147.5&stiffLegDeadliftTrainingMaxWeight=450&militaryOnePlusWeight=175&benchOnePlusWeight=260&closeGripBenchOnePlusWeight=260&inclinePressOnePlusWeight=260&powerCleanOnePlusWeight=260&hangCleanOnePlusWeight=260&frontSquatOnePlusWeight=280&squatOnePlusWeight=345&deadliftOnePlusWeight=430&stiffLegDeadliftOnePlusWeight=430&barWeight=20&platePairs_100=0&platePairs_55=0&platePairs_45=0&platePairs_35=0&platePairs_25=0&platePairs_20=4&platePairs_15=2&platePairs_10=2&platePairs_7_5=0&platePairs_5=2&platePairs_2_5=4&platePairs_2=0&platePairs_1_5=0&platePairs_1_25=4&platePairs_1=0&platePairs_0_75=0&platePairs_0_5=0&platePairs_0_25=0&warmup=none&programming=fresher&weeksOrder=531D&order=normal&extraSets=noneExtraSets&firstSetLastSetsSelect=3&firstSetLastRepsSelect=5&boringButBigOption=across30&boringButBigSwapOption=reallyBoring&daysPerWeekOption=4&fullBodyPhaseOption=1&fullBodyFullBoringSquatOption=65x5_75x5_85x5&fullBodyFullBoringBenchOption=65x5_75x5_85x5&fullBodyFullBoringDeadliftOption=65x3_75x3_85x3&boringButBig3MonthChallengeMonthOption=3&buildingTheMonolithWaveOption=1&youngJimWendlerSeasonOption=offseason&deload=1&boringButBigDeloadOption=none

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Yeah… It’s the calculator that’s the problem here.

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I don’t get it brother.

let’s just look at bench how on earth did you put 120,989 on the bar this is what really puzzles me.

you deadlift 163,889 I’m using kg on my bar: that would be 162,5 kg or 166 kg for deadlift I would have to have 0,5 kg plates to get to 163,5 kg (okay I got those) but how do you load 0,389 kg ?

I’ll try one more time:

Your training max the one in the picture stated as Wendler 's training max I really don’t know what that is, my guess is it could be the training max used to calculate the weights used during your workout.

I’ll just go with the bench press it seems that is the most desired lift:

It says the Wendler’s training max should be 1 x 110.

I’ll assume you use this as the training max I’ll refer to it as the TM.

IF 110 is you TM then I will ask: can you lift 110 for 5 solid reps if you can then 110 is a good starting point to calculate you workouts.

week 1: 110 diveded by 100: 1,1, First set 1,1 x 65 71,5, second set 1,1 x 75 82,5 third and top set is 1,1 x 85 93,5 this is your top set for the first week you do that for as many reps as possible.

Then you do the BBB sets after which would be 110 divided by 100 x 50 : 1,1 x 50 = 55
5 sets x 10 reps with 55 on the bar.

I’ve explained this to you countless times.

delete that app, find a pencil and a piece of paper write down your workout.

Triumvirate with a barbell, DB and a pull up bar

Squat, Bulgarian split squat or front squat, and pull ups
bench, DB incline or flat, BB row (acces to do dip bars do dips instead of DB bench)
DL, front squat, good morning
OHP, DB press seated or standing, chin ups or db rows

Do some core exercises as well.

Triumvirate is about finding 2 exercises to do after the main lift, not what the app says, you have to think a little here, what is the best assistance for my main lift.

I can’t understand your new schedule it’s a lot of red text that gives no meaning.

You could write:

cycle 1 week 1 day 1 (C1W1D1)

Squat: 65 x 5, 75 x 5, 85 x amrap
Squat BBB: 55: 5 x 10

5 rounds of
chin
push up
crunch

That would make sense.

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Hey if anyone is coming to this thread and doesn’t fancy reading the last 93 posts here is a brief summary:

OP: “The calculator says I should do this. Is that right?”
T-Nation: “No, it’s completely wrong. Read the books.”
OP: “No. The calculator now says this. Is that right?”
T-Nation: “No, it’s completely wrong. Read the books.”
OP: “No. The calculator now says this. Is that right?”
T-Nation: “No, it’s completely wrong. Read the books.”
OP: “OK I read the books. The calculator says this. Is that right?”
T-Nation: “No. Stop using the calculator.”
OP: “Absolutely fucking not. I will die for this calculator.”

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96

The weird weights behind the comma does the calculator. I had to fill in my 1 rep wendler max. I thought that’s 85% of my real 1 rep max. The calculator fills in the weights itself with decimal places apparently.

I know what you mean. tomorrow I’m going to take pen and paper and I’m going to make the schedule myself. It is also possible to do it like this anyway

I also looked up the schedule on t-nation.

This makes it a lot easier.

So if I understand everything correctly:
I’m picking up a weight that allows me to do 5 reps for bench,press,squat and deadlift.

I divide the kilos by 100 and multiply the percentages. The result are my work weights.

The BBB sets I start at 50%, do I build the percentages as well? This is a bit unclear.

677×894 98.9 KB

My dumbells are not heavy enough. Should I substitute this exercise for incline bench press or fly’s?

I also have no leg press and leg curl. As soon as my gym opens again I can do these exercises.

I can replace the leg press for front squat. Should I replace the leg curl for romanian deadlifts?

should i write the weights down from the BBB excercise or just go heavy and don’t keep track of it.

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Damn… You made me laugh so hard! :slight_smile: lol (not sarcastic)

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@mortdk

Okay. I’ve made the schedule. I’ve rearranged the exercises a little because I’d like to take the muscle groups twice a week. Added an excel file and put the days in different tabs.

Would you look at it?

when I’ve reached the 5/3/1 reps, should I increase the weight or should I have the last sets everywhere +1 rep?

With the assistance work. month 1 50%, month 2 60% month 3 70% and then i re-calculate and strart over with 50% and so on.

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Now we are getting somewhere, that looks mighty fine

On the sheet is says 1RM and then 90% which original was the TM it has changed since then to 85% or your 5RM. But 90% is fine.

I would do that lets take Bench if you can get 5 good strong reps with 110 then you’re good.

After the first month you increase the TM by 5lb/2,5 kg
Now your TM would be 112,5 if you’re a kg guy

Next cycle you calculate new weights for the main work.

BBB sets are as you’ve written 5 sets of 10 reps with 55 kg.

Next month the BBB set will be 60% 112,5/100= 1,125 x 60 = 67,5 kg
last month the BBB sets will be 70% 115/100= 1,15 x 70= 80,5 kg (80)

Doing a 3 month challenge like this it is very good to look ahead if 5 sets of 10 reps with 80 kg seem very intimidating to the point of no chance I can to it, then it’s wise to dial back a little bit. If it looks like damn this is tough, but maybe I can then go ahead, it is a challenge so it should look almost not doable.

Assistance I would keep very very light and only chase a little pump, you’re looking at doing BBB AND triumvirate at the same time. It’s doable but it’s tough.
This is what I would do:

I would do chins 1 day and pull ups 1 day on lower body days supersetted with some abs like ab wheel 1 day and hanging leg raise 1 day
On upper body days I would do BB row 1 day and DB row 1 day + biceps and triceps and some face pulls both days.

No more than 3 sets and I wouldn’t do any more.

I am not sure I know what you mean the + means amrap on all 3 days.

I would do something else like triumvirate or FSL 5x5.
Do the challenge read up on the books find another wendler program there are a few laid out here on TN and in the books.

Good luck, if you really gets the fundamentals on the 531 approach then you can always fall back to the basics of this.

100

How do i know that? on the end of cycle 3 i can load 110 on the bar and test it out.
The challange takes 3 months, so at the end of month 3 i addes 10 kilo’s to lower excercise and 5 kilo to upper excersice

Got it. my previous challange I also had my 5x10 exercises on week 3. also finished exactly on 10 reps of the last set.

I’ll see how it goes. If I am burned up after week 3, I will apply deload week. if it’s not that bad I will apply deload after 6 weeks (2 cycles).

Fortunately, I always recover very quickly.

Okay. If it’s all right, it’s all right now. I can’t get the chin and pull ups all the reps. I just do 5 sets of AMRAP.

Forget what i said. That was stupid.

2 challanges in a row is enough

Thank you again for your help!

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You should be able to do 5 strong reps with your TM at the start of the challenge.
That’s why I’ve said again and again use your current 5RM as your TM.

If you on the last day of last cycle did 110 kg x 5 reps and those where good, then it’s the new TM.

On the last days of the challenges you got a little guideline for the next cycles of 531:
If you on the 95% 1+ days gets more than 5 reps you’re golden, you can then add 2,5 and 5 kg to the new cycle.