[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
I went to a Wesleyan Methodist church until my early teens. They do not drink alcohol and believe Jesus turned water into grape juice. There was a lady at church who would not drink root beer because beer was in the name. I kid you not. [/quote]
Sounds about normal for these folks…
Grape juice or wine…LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
[quote]treco wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]treco wrote:
Drinking is considered unwise because it can lead to poor choices, circumspect company which could corrupt one’s character or witness, and is easy to become addicted to. In the past, the denomination sought to influence its members from getting the ball rolling from the start. That is probably still true - I never hear about it. In a world where many say ‘Forget you’ to God, there are other issues we concern ourselves with.
That said - I am a Baptist, have a drink or two on occasion. I do not promote this or flaunt it, as I do not want to bring down a weaker Brother. When asked - even as a Sunday School teacher (in the past) - I do not deny the fact.
The Bible warns against being a drunkard and, not having a social drink.[/quote]
Thank you for your answer and thank you for being honest. I have alway been genuinely curious about that. I know that technically Baptist churches are autonomous but have alliance with the SBC, most of them.
I guess I want to know why it’s generally forbidden, when it is not really scriptural. Of course I am not talking about being a drunkard, just being able to drink. Do you know the liturgical basis behind it?[/quote]
Liturgy I associate more with the tone and order of public worship.
Railing against drinking would come during the 2-3 hour sermons, hehe
My guess is that it is ‘Legalism’ and an area that Baptists have decided is a point where they want to differentiate themselves to illustrate a devotion to holiness.
Similar admonitions would be against dancing - sweaty hormone charged bodies being held closely or card playing being only one step from tarot reading or divinations.
[/quote]
Interesting. I certainly have no issue with a devotion to holiness, only when it gets weird or over the top. Now Baptists are certainly not alone guilty of this over-the-topness and I don’t want to sound like a ‘Baptist basher’ by any stretch. I have come to know many Baptists in my life who are good a reasonable people. There’s always that handful of crazies that give every body a bad name.
Speaking of, do you know by any chance if the SBC or Baptists in general have publicly denounce and distanced themselves from the nuts of westboro? Personally, I would sue for using the word ‘Baptist’ in their name. They are so horrible.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Headhunter strikes me as the kind of guy who always relates anecdotes where the characters use his name to start every sentence they say to him. “So then my Baptist friend says to me, ‘Well Headhunter, that there is an example of God testing your faith.’”[/quote]
Headhunter strikes me as the kind of guy who always…who always…who always is on the verge of his third nervous breakdown.[/quote]
I just think, in his core, the the very center of his heart, he is a complete asshole who should be ignored.[/quote]
Making fun of delusional religious zealots is not a sign of assholishness. Having a mind and not using it, shutting off your brain so that you can have your God and eat Him too…THAT is assholishness.
[/quote]
No. In general you are a complete asshole. You’re an asshole all the time. No occasionally, or when you do certain things, your assholeness permeates you to the core and are of little value as a result of your actions.
[quote]treco wrote:
card playing being only one step from tarot reading or divinations.
[/quote]
???
My great grandfather was a baptist preacher who spent his money building baptist churches in northern Sweden and raised his own children in uttermost poverty. Well, actually he didn’t raise them, he died before any of them reached adulthood. I hear he was a great preacher, though. Alcoholism was rampant both in norhern Sweden and Finland at the end of 19th century, so I guess teetotalism was something to recommend.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]treco wrote:
card playing being only one step from tarot reading or divinations.
[/quote]
???[/quote]It’s true. Meaning that that’s what some teach. Same with alcohol. Some DO teach that one beer is a soul imperiling sin. That is of course a principle of righteousness taken way outta God’s hands and into the realm of unchristian legalism.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]treco wrote:
card playing being only one step from tarot reading or divinations.
[/quote]
???[/quote]It’s true. Meaning that that’s what some teach. Same with alcohol. Some DO teach that one beer is a soul imperiling sin. That is of course a principle of righteousness taken way outta God’s hands and into the realm of unchristian legalism.
[/quote]
I don’t get it, it’s two different sets of cards.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]treco wrote:
card playing being only one step from tarot reading or divinations.
[/quote]
???[/quote]It’s true. Meaning that that’s what some teach. Same with alcohol. Some DO teach that one beer is a soul imperiling sin. That is of course a principle of righteousness taken way outta God’s hands and into the realm of unchristian legalism.
[/quote]
I don’t get it, it’s two different sets of cards.[/quote]
I see baptism was born in a violent and unruly society, like many later pietistic movements. There’s certainly a word for to describe them, but I don’t know what it is in english. Like the Salvation Army, for example. Do the religious movements of 19th century have a common name in english?
Please, how do you call the religious movements of 19th century? do they have a name?
E: It’s heraennaeisliikkeet in finnish, vaeckelseroerelse in swedish.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Headhunter strikes me as the kind of guy who always relates anecdotes where the characters use his name to start every sentence they say to him. “So then my Baptist friend says to me, ‘Well Headhunter, that there is an example of God testing your faith.’”[/quote]
Headhunter strikes me as the kind of guy who always…who always…who always is on the verge of his third nervous breakdown.[/quote]
I just think, in his core, the the very center of his heart, he is a complete asshole who should be ignored.[/quote]
Making fun of delusional religious zealots is not a sign of assholishness. Having a mind and not using it, shutting off your brain so that you can have your God and eat Him too…THAT is assholishness.
[/quote]
No. In general you are a complete asshole. You’re an asshole all the time. No occasionally, or when you do certain things, your assholeness permeates you to the core and are of little value as a result of your actions.
[/quote]
Because I laugh at jackasses like you? You use your brain to tell yourself that your brain is incompetent to judge. You then make the judgment (with your incompetent brain) that god exists and that he came here to turn water into grape juice and other such stupidities.
So much stupidity deserves to be thoroughly and completely laughed at. It is called ‘justice’, Jackass.
You deserve ridicule, you get ridicule.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I’m still waiting to hear the answer to that alcohol question. I’ve often wondered this, myself.
If I may be totally honest, it’s always struck me as a way to appear more “holy” than other Christians.
Jesus’ very first miracle, for crying out loud, was not turning water into grape soda.[/quote]
Baptists teach it was grape juice.
The alcohol question is one that I believe has been distorted by Baptists to advance a teetotaling stance. There are many verses in Scripture that definitely teach that drinking alcohol to excess is unwise. This is extrapolated to the extent that all alcohol consumption is to be avoided, even sinful - kinda along the lines of the ol’ adage, “When in doubt, don’t.”[/quote]
Not all of them do that, I have heard it, but I don’t believe it’s a common belief among Baptists. I guess we need real Baptists to tell us.
I have heard the grape juice thing and I find it sad when they do that, but I don’t believe it’s a widely held belief. Each church is autonomous, so where one may teach that, others do not.[/quote]
I grew up a real Baptist. SBC and independent. In the South. Many teach the grape juice deal. Most teach to avoid alcohol at all costs. Even alcohol-free beer shouldn’t be drunk because it has the “appearance” of alcoholic beer.[/quote]
No wonder you have ‘issues’! What a bunch of morons! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
My great grandfather was a baptist preacher who spent his money building baptist churches in northern Sweden and raised his own children in uttermost poverty.[/quote]
So…he was insane?
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:<<< I see baptism was born in a violent and unruly society, like many later pietistic movements. There’s certainly a word for to describe them, but I don’t know what it is in english. Like the Salvation Army, for example. Do the religious movements of 19th century have a common name in english?[/quote]The Anabaptists actually were around through the same time as the reformation. The only thing I can think of at all along the lines of what you’re asking would be the temperance movement, but that was American.
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
Please, how do you call the religious movements of 19th century? do they have a name?
E: It’s heraennaeisliikkeet in finnish, vaeckelseroerelse in swedish.[/quote]What was your grandfather’s name? I’m not familiar with what you’re asking, but would be happy to help if I were.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
What was your grandfather’s name? I’m not familiar with what you’re asking, but would be happy to help if I were.
[/quote]
Christian revival, awakenings, that’s the word. His name was Johan Liljestrand.
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
Please, how do you call the religious movements of 19th century? do they have a name?
E: It’s heraennaeisliikkeet in finnish, vaeckelseroerelse in swedish.[/quote]
Actually that’s a pretty cool story. And I can certainly see alcoholism being rampant in very cold places. It seems that cold places lend themselves to that. I guess there is a lot of boredom associated with being stuck inside a lot of the time.
So what I am curious about was how effective was he? Sounds to me like he had some degree of success. Are the movements on going?
[quote]pat wrote:
Actually that’s a pretty cool story. And I can certainly see alcoholism being rampant in very cold places. It seems that cold places lend themselves to that. I guess there is a lot of boredom associated with being stuck inside a lot of the time.
So what I am curious about was how effective was he? Sounds to me like he had some degree of success. Are the movements on going?[/quote]
According to my knowledge the baptist movement is dwindling if nothing new hasn’t happened resently, but I doubt it. Pentecostalism is the strongest denomination today. Johan was reasonably effective, I think, it was a period when the baptist movement grew.
Was he also known as John?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Was he also known as John?[/quote]
Never heard and I don’t see why. John is a very english name and and Johan would not become John in swedish, but over there it probably would so I don’t know, maybe. There’s plenty of people with swedish or finnish ancestry in Michigan.